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Repentence vs. Penance

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Lynn73

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I just did a little experiment at crosswalk.com using their Bible study tools. I looked up the word penance in several Bible versions and it was to be found nowhere in the ones I checked except the Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible. The other versions use the word repentance or repent or turn away from. Then I took one verse, Matthew 3:2 which in the Douey-Rheims states :

And saying: Do penance: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Let's see what some of the other versions say:

KJV: And saying, repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

NIV: and saying, "repent for the kingdom of heaven is near."

NAS: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

ASV: Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

ESV: Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Third Millenium Bible: and saying, "Repent ye, for the Kingom of Heaven is at hand."

Good News Translation: "Turn away from your sins," he said, "because the kingdom of heaven is near!"

That should suffice as there are quite a few versions.

Next we need to look at the difference between repentance and penance. I see a difference between the two. One is a turning away from sin, changing one's mind, going a different direction than you did before. The other appears to be performing some work in order to make up for the sin instead of counting the sin atoned for by Christ. Quite a difference, I'd say. So, it seems to me that the Catholic Bible has replaced the word repent and repentance with the term penance which means something a bit different. So, since there's a difference between the two, why has the RCC changed the word repentance and repent to penance?

Penance:

Penance is the actual name of the Catholic Sacrament of Reconciliation/ Confession. In this Sacrament, the penitent (sinner) accuses himself of his sins to an ordained priest. The priest may then offer advice and imposes a particular penance to be performed. The penitent then prays an Act of Contrition, the priest administers absolution, thus formally forgiving the penitent of his sins, and finally sends him out with words of dismissal.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penance


An activity similar to mortification* while also containing the idea of reparation (atonement) for personal sins. Most religious communities encourage their members to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Penance) on a regular basis. There are also admonitions that individual religious carry out their own penances to help them grow in the spiritual life and to free themselves from bad habits. ...
[URL="http://www.augustinianrecollects.org/glossary.html"]www.augustinianrecollects.org/glossary.html[/URL]


Repentance:


Repentance is often wrongly viewed merely as remorse, conviction, sorrow for doing wrong, etc. However, the Bible views repentance primarily as a radical change of mind, change of attitude, and change of decisions. That results in a change of one's actions and a new direction adopted.
www.calvarychapel.com/redbarn/terms.htm


In theology, a change of mental and spiritual habit respecting sin, involving a hatred of and sorrow because of it, and a genuine abandonment of it in conduct of life. The frequent reference made by Christians with regard to death-bed repentance, however distorted, nevertheless is based upon a truth. ...
[URL="http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/etgloss/red-roos.htm"]www.theosociety.org/pasadena/etgloss/red-roos.htm[/URL]


That's the best I can do right now. I must not know the right places to go to get the best definitions. So, is there a real difference between the two words and why do the other Bibles use repent and the Catholic Bible uses penance?



REPENTANCE IS NOT PENANCE
Many Catholic Bibles translate “repentance” as “do penance,” according to Catholic theology that replaces biblical repentance with a sacramental duty. Penance is a Catholic sacrament whereby sins “done after baptism” are absolved by the priest upon the confession and good deeds of the penitent. The four parts of penance are confession, contrition, absolution, and satisfaction. The satisfaction refers to various duties prescribed by the priest, such as praying the Rosary. Satisfaction is defined by the authoritative Addis and Arnold Catholic Dictionary as “a payment of the temporal punishment due to sin through works which are good and penal and are imposed by the confessor.”

This is not biblical repentance. Sinners are not commanded to go to priests for forgiveness. They are not told to confess their sins to a priest or to do good works with the hope that their sins will thereby be forgiven. All of the elements of Catholic penance are unscriptural.


from: http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/repent.htm
 
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Optimax

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Strongs Condordance define the word repent in Mt. 3:2 number 3340
NT:3340
metanoe/w
metanoeo (met-an-o-eh'-o); from NT:3326 and NT:3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):

KJV - repent.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

The Bible says to do this when we sin.
1 Jn 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
KJV:)
 
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lionroar0

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I just did a little experiment at crosswalk.com using their Bible study tools. I looked up the word penance in several Bible versions and it was to be found nowhere in the ones I checked except the Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible. The other versions use the word repentance or repent or turn away from. Then I took one verse, Matthew 3:2 which in the Douey-Rheims states :

And saying: Do penance: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Let's see what some of the other versions say:

KJV: And saying, repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

NIV: and saying, "repent for the kingdom of heaven is near."

NAS: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

ASV: Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

ESV: Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Yes the DR does say to do penance instead of repentance. Which is an acceptable translation.

This is the on the GReek from Blueletter bible. Which uses Strong's Concordance.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/3/1149379778-4941.html


1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent 2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins


Next we need to look at the difference between repentance and penance. I see a difference between the two. One is a turning away from sin, changing one's mind, going a different direction than you did before. The other appears to be performing some work in order to make up for the sin instead of counting the sin atoned for by Christ. Quite a difference, I'd say. So, it seems to me that the Catholic Bible has replaced the word repent and repentance with the term penance which means something a bit different. So, since there's a difference between the two, why has the RCC changed the word repentance and repent to penance?

Penance:


Penance is the actual name of the Catholic Sacrament of Reconciliation/ Confession. In this Sacrament, the penitent (sinner) accuses himself of his sins to an ordained priest. The priest may then offer advice and imposes a particular penance to be performed. The penitent then prays an Act of Contrition, the priest administers absolution, thus formally forgiving the penitent of his sins, and finally sends him out with words of dismissal.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penance
The article from wikipedia is not accurate. The name of the Sacrament is not the Sacrament of Penance it is the Sacrament of Reconciliation formerly known as the Sacrament of Confession.

In this Sacrament, the penitent (sinner) accuses himself of his sins to an ordained priest.

Wrong!!! The penitnet does not accuse himself or herself of his or her sin. He or she brings their sins to mind and brings then to the priest who at this time is the person of Christ. Therefore when a person brings their sins before a priest the penitent is bringing their sins before Christ.

The priest may then offer advice and imposes a particular penance to be performed. The penitent then prays an Act of Contrition, the priest administers absolution, thus formally forgiving the penitent of his sins, and finally sends him out with words of dismissal.

Somewhat more accurate but still a bit out of context the priest absolves the peninent of sins and then the person is to perform penance whateve it may be.

What we see is that a person is 1st sorry for their sins. Then that person is Forgiven. Then that person is to do penance if any is assigned.

The idea of doing penance to merit forgiveness is a straw man.

Peace
 
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cygnusx1

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I. REPENTANCE CONSIDERED ALONE​
1. ORIGINAL WORDS.
These two words are "metanoeo" (corresponding noun form being "metanoia") and "metamelomai" (the noun form of which does not occur in the New Testament). Only the former word is associated with salvation. The latter word is used in Matt. 21:29 (in the case of the son that first refused to obey his father’s command to work in the vineyard, but "afterward...repented himself and went" ); Matt. 21:32; 27:3 (in the case of Judas); Rom. 11:29; 2 Cor. 7:8,10; and Heb. 7:21.
Concerning these two words, Thayer says: "That ‘metanoeo’ is the fuller and nobler term, expressive of moral action and issues, is indicated not only by its derivation, but by the greater frequency of its use..."
2. TWO KINDS OF REPENTANCE.
There is an evangelical repentance and there is also a legal repentance. Legal repentance comes about wholly through fear of the consequences of sin. This is the kind Judas experienced. Evangelical repentance is accompanied by godly sorrow and is wrought in the heart by the regenerating Spirit of God. It is evangelical repentance that we are considering in this chapter.
3. THE CONSTITUENT ELEMENTS OF REPENTANCE.
(1) Sin Admitted—Conviction.
Man must see himself as unlike God and in rebellion against God. He must see the opposition between his condition and the holiness of God. He must see that God abhors his condition and state. The recognition of sin that enters into repentance unto salvation is concerned primarily, not with the fact that sin brings punishment, but with the fact that sin offends God. There is, of course, a fear of the eternal consequences of sin; but this is not the primary thing.
This recognition of sin is conviction, and it constitutes the intellectual element in repentance.
(2) Sin Abhorred—Contrition.
Godly sorrow enters into repentance. When one sees himself as he appears before God he is brought to regret his sin and to abhor it. This is the emotional element in repentance.
(3) Sin Abandoned—Conversion.
Repentance is not complete until there is an inward abandoning of sin which leads to an outward change of conduct. This is the voluntary or volitional element in repentance. Thus repentance concerns the whole inner nature: intellect, emotion, and will.
4. REPENTANCE IS INWARD.
While true repentance always manifests itself outwardly; yet repentance of itself is inward, according to the meaning of the original. The Scripture distinguishes between repentance and "fruits worthy of repentance" (Matt. 3:8; Acts 26:20).
5. REPENTANCE AND PENANCE CONTRASTED.
The Roman Catholic translation of the Bible (Douay Version) substitutes "penance" for "repentance" as a translation of "metanoeo." Thus we read from the Douay Version: "Do penance; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matt. 3:2); "Except you do penance, you shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:5); and "Testifying both to Jews and Gentiles penance toward God, and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21). And of penance, the comment in the Douay Version on Matt. 3:2 says: "Which word, according to the use of the scriptures, and the holy fathers, does not only signify repentance and amendment of life, but also punishing past sins by lasting, and such like penitential exercises." Three things may be said concerning this comment:
(1) It is absolutely false in saying that the "punishing of past sins by fasting, and such like penitential exercises" is a part of the meaning of the Greek word.
As already noted, the Greek word signifies an inward change. "True repentance consists of mental and spiritual emotions, and not of outward self-imposed chastisements. Even the pious life and devotion to God which follows are described not as repentance, but as fruits meet for repentance" (Boyce, Abstract of Systematic Theology, p. 384). "Metanoeo" is made of "meta," meaning "after," and "noeo," meaning to perceive, to understand, to think upon, heed, ponder, consider.
(2) It denies the sufficiency of Christ’s satisfaction for our sins, in plain contradiction of the Scripture (Cf. Rom. 4:7, 8; 10:4; Heb. 10:14; 1 John 1:7).
Since Christ made a full satisfaction for our sins, there is no punishment for us to endure, except the natural consequences of sin. God chastens the believer when he sins, but He never punishes him either in this life or the life to come. Punishment is retributive, and is based on "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." Chastisement is corrective, and is based on fatherly love. Christ left us nothing to pay, and we can truthfully sing:
"Jesus paid it all;
All to Him I owe.
Sin had left a crimson stain;
He washed it white as snow."​
(3) It implies that the temporal acts of the creature can atone for sin.
The Bible knows nothing of such a teaching. It teaches that Christ alone could make an atonement. Even in eternity the souls in Hell will never be able to atone for sin; for that reason there is no end to their punishment. Surely, then, the song speaks the truth when it says:
"Could my tears forever flow;
Could my zeal no respite know;
These for sin could not atone,
Thou must save and thou alone."​
6. REPENTANCE IS A GIFT OF GOD.
The three following passages prove this:
"Him did God exalt with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins" (Acts 5:31).
"And when they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then to the Gentiles also hath God granted repentance unto life" (Acts ll:18).
"The Lord’s servant must not strive, but be gentle towards all, apt to teach, forbearing, in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim. 2:24,25).
The meaning of this is simply that repentance is wrought in man by the quickening power of the Holy Spirit, as we have already noted.
II. FAITH CONSIDERED ALONE​
We have reference here to saving faith. Hence we note:
1. SAVING FAITH DEFINED.
Saving faith is trust in and reliance on the Lord Jesus Christ as one’s personal Saviour and sin-bearer. And, since salvation includes sanctification as well as justification, saving faith brings about a commitment of self to Christ.
2. SAVING FAITH DISTINGUISHED FROM ITS COUNTERFEITS.
(1) Historical Belief.
This is mere belief in the facts of revelation as matters of history, including belief in the existence of God and that there was a man called Jesus who claimed to be the Son of God. It can be readily seen that such belief has no saving value.
(2) Intellectual Assent.
This goes a step farther, bringing mental acceptance of the things revealed of God and Jesus Christ. Thus one who believes in the existence of God comes to believe Him to be such a being as the Bible reveals Him to be, and one who believes that such a person as Jesus lived comes to believe that He was the Son of God and that He died as a sacrifice for sin. This is a step toward saving faith, but it is not such faith.
Campbellism teaches that saving faith is nothing more than the foregoing. It relies on such passages as 1 John 4:15 and 5:1. But these passages must be understood in the light of all other Scripture, and other Scripture certainly forbids that the belief spoken of in these passages should be understood as being mere intellectual assent to the deity of Christ. Saving faith is not merely of the mind (intellect), but of the heart (emotions). See Rom. 10:9,10. The belief spoken of in the above passages is such as is produced in the heart by an experimental knowledge of Christ’s power.
Then two facts as to the circumstances under which these expressions were uttered throw light upon them.
A. The danger of professing belief in the deity of Christ was such in apostolic days that none would do so unless prompted by true faith in Him.
B. Christianity presented such a contrast to Judaism and Paganism that none would believe in the deity of Christ without true faith in Him. Those who had not this faith would regard Him as an imposter.
3. FAITH IS A GIFT OF GOD.
This is proved by the passages already quoted that designate repentance as a gift of God; for as we shall see, repentance and faith are inseparable graces. Each one, when appearing alone in the Scriptures, embraces the other; for, if this were not true, the passages which mention only the one or the other would teach that one may be saved without both repentance and faith.
This is proved by passages which teach that our coming to Christ and believing on Him are the result of the working of God’s power. See John 6:37, 65; Eph. 1:19, 20. This is further proved by the fact that faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal. 5:22).
4. FAITH HAS NO MERIT IN ITSELF.
Faith is merely the channel through which God’s justifying and sanctifying grace flows into the soul. Faith is no more meritorious than the act of receiving a gift is meritorious. Faith in no way is a substitute for our obedience to the law, nor does it bring about a lowering of the law so that we can meet its demands. Faith is once referred to as work in the Scripture (John 6:29), not that it is of the law, but only that man is actively engaged in its exercise. "As a gift of God and as the mere taking of undeserved mercy, it is expressly excluded from the category of works on the basis of which man may claim salvation (Rom. 3:28; 4:4, 5, 16). It is not the act of the full soul bestowing, but the act of the empty soul receiving. Although this reception is prompted by a drawing of the heart toward God, inwrought by the Holy Spirit, this drawing of the heart is not yet a conscious and developed love: such love is the result of faith (Gal. 5:6)" (A. H. Strong, Systematic Theology, pp. 469, 470).
5. FAITH IS NECESSARILY EXPRESSES ITSELF IN WORKS.
Faith is a dynamic principle. It gives rise to love; and, therefore, works (Gal. 5:6). Faith that does not express itself in works is a dead faith, which is just another way of saying that it is spurious or unreal (Jas. 2:17).
6. FAITH IS DISTINGUISHABLE FROM HOPE.
Faith and hope are very much akin; but the two terms are not synonymous. Faith and hope differ in the following ways:
(1) Faith is trust; hope is expectation.
The difference here is narrow, but is such a difference as is common between various somewhat similar terms. Both faith and hope involve "the idea of trust," but with the use of different prepositions (Boyce). We "trust in" as an act of faith. We "trust for" in hope.
(2) "Faith is reliance upon something now present as known or believed, Hope is looking forward to something in the future" (Boyce).
(3) Christ is the object of faith; while salvation, freedom from sin, glorification, and Heaven are the objects of hope.
(4) Hope results from faith, and, therefore, cannot be faith. See Rom. 5:2-6; 15:4-13; Gal. 5:5; Heb. 11:1.
7. THE GROUND OF FAITH
Christ, objectively revealed to the mind and heart is the ground of faith. This is implied throughout the Bible, and it is unmistakably taught in Rom. 10:11-17. We read there that "faith cometh by hearing," and we find also there the question (implying an impossibility): "How shall they believe on him of whom they have not heard." The Bible knows nothing, absolutely nothing, about a so-called secret faith that can exist apart from knowledge of Christ, such as some Hardshells teach.
In the Old Testament Christ was revealed, not only through types and shadows, but through prophets, such as Isaiah. And we are told plainly that the gospel was preached to Abraham and to Israel (Gal. 3:8; Heb. 4:2).
III. REPENTANCE AND FAITH CONSIDERED TOGETHER​
Repentance and faith are inseparable synchronous graces. We have reference here, of course, to that repentance (signified by "metanoeo" and "metnaoia") which is unto salvation, and not to the kind (signified by "metamelomai") that Judas experienced.
That repentance and faith are synchronous or simultaneous is evident from the fact that when a man is quickened into life there can be no lapse of time before he repents, nor can there be any before he believes. Otherwise we would have the new nature in rebellion against God and in unbelief. Thus there can be no chronological order in repentance and faith.
Another thing which shows the inseparableness of repentance and faith is the fact that the Scripture often mentions only one of them as the means of salvation. Because of this fact we must think of each one, when used alone, as comprehending the other.
In repentance and faith, as we have already pointed out in another chapter, the will is brought to choose righteousness as an ultimate end.

http://www.pbministries.org/Theology/Simmons/chapter25.htm
 
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lionroar0

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That's the best I can do right now. I must not know the right places to go to get the best definitions. So, is there a real difference between the two words and why do the other Bibles use repent and the Catholic Bible uses penance?

The post has only shown one Catholic Bible that uses the word Penance which has been shown to be acceptable translation.

This is from another Catholic Bible.
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew3.htm
NAB. (and) saying, "Repent, 3 for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"

All that has been shown is one Catholic Bible that has the word "penance" instead of "repent." What about all of the many Catholic Bibles that say "penance"? Where are the quotes from those Bibles?

Peace
 
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CCWoody

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JJB said:
Calling all Greek geeks! :)
Well, when you put it that way, how could any of us pass on that?

In the future, merely cut and paste this and you will be sure to get some attention ;) (I hate Erwin's Greek - how do you get the right sigma at the end of the word and the right accents and breathing marks???):

kalew pantas ellhnikous qeous

Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory....





Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist





Woody.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Responding to the OP here . .

It is not repetance vs penance . .

Penance is a part of repentance. You cannot have true repentance without penance.

I used a different verse, but the information is the same:

43 Acts Of Apostles 2
38 But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.




REPENT:
Lexicon Results for metanoeo (Strong's 3340)
Greek for 3340

Pronunciation Guide
metanoeo {met-an-o-eh'-o}

TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 4:975,636 from 3326 and 3539
Part of Speech
v
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins
For Synonyms see entry 5862

THAYERS LEXICON:
. . . . used especially of those who, consious of of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent on obtaining God's pardon......clothed in sackcloth and ashes . . . .conduct worthy of a heart changed and abhorring sin . . . . [Acts 2:38]

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_d...5741-1299.html


Obviously, repentance, as used in the verse above, is not simply a change of heart, but intrinsically includes and demands CONDUCT (actions, works) WORTHY OF a changed heart.

In other words . . . PENANCE.

If you focus only on half of what repentance means, which is a changed heart, but ignore the other half, which is what needs to be DONE, ie WORKS, CONDUCT, then one does not have true repentance and neither can one claim they have truly repented.

The works, the conduct are not the result of one's repentance, they are the necessary PART OF one's repentance.

Everywhere we are told to repent for salvation in the New Testament, it inherently includes penance, otherwise, you only have half baked repentance, which is worth nothing but to be thrown away like half baked bread, all gooey inside still.


Peace
 
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thereselittleflower

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JJB said:
It would be intersting to look at the Greek words.

Calling all Greek geeks! :)

I'll ask a couple of ppl I know that enjoy studying NT in Greek....i'll keep you posted on what they say.

Is anyone you know more of a Greek geek than Thayer was?

Look at my post above.


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thereselittleflower

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cygnusx1 said:
I. REPENTANCE CONSIDERED ALONE​

cygnus, whoever wrote that failed to take into account that "repentance" consists of more than just inward components .. . ie recognition of sin, contrition and inward abandonment of it.

Repentance we are enjoined to includes CONDUCT as a necessary component. This is penance.

Please see above.


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Ethan_Fetch

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μετανοέω
metanoeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins

On the other hand:

pen·ance ([FONT=verdana,sans-serif] P [/FONT]) Pronunciation Key (p
ebreve.gif
n
prime.gif
schwa.gif
ns)
n.
  1. An act of self-mortification or devotion performed voluntarily to show sorrow for a sin or other wrongdoing.
  2. A sacrament in some Christian churches that includes contrition, confession to a priest, acceptance of punishment, and absolution. Also called reconciliation.

Now, in Matt 3:2, John says: ""Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

The word is used 27 times in the NT while "repentance" is used 20 times.

It NEVER means to make "An act of self-mortification or devotion performed voluntarily to show sorrow for a sin or other wrongdoing."

It always means, "to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins"

Why is this important?

Well, Lynn told us in the OP but it bears repeating:

The Bible nowehre tells us that we must earn God's mercy or merit His favor. Everywhere it tells us the opposite, that while the wages of sin are death, the free gift of God is eternal life..

The Bible tells us to "bear fruit in keeping with repentance" but this is clearly not meritorious, it is an encouragement to behave in a way that is consistent with our change of heart, that behavior being understood as the product, not the cause of our standing with God and the repentance so much a part of it.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Ethan_Fetch said:
On the other hand:



Now, in Matt 3:2, John says: ""Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

The word is used 27 times in the NT while "repentance" is used 20 times.

It NEVER means to make "An act of self-mortification or devotion performed voluntarily to show sorrow for a sin or other wrongdoing."

It always means, "to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins"

That's not all it means according to Thayer . . it also necessitates outward CONDUCT. . . why are you ignoring this?

Did you read my quotes from Thayer above?

Why is this important?

Well, Lynn told us in the OP but it bears repeating:

The Bible nowehre tells us that we must earn God's mercy or merit His favor. Everywhere it tells us the opposite, that while the wages of sin are death, the free gift of God is eternal life..

If it is a free gift, and you have to do nothing, why do you have to repent?

This is a contradiction.


Obviously, you must do something in order to receive God's free gift, you must repent, so there is an action that man must perform to receive eternal life.

Where many of you want to limit that action to something that is totally inward, the GREEK word, translated 'repent", means much more than just what happens inwardly, it necessarily includes what must also be down OUTWARDLY . . . CONDUCT.

Without this OUTWARD CONDUCT, one has not truly repented.

And it can't be any conduct, but conduct worthy of a changed heart.

Inward change of heart
+
outward action WORTHY of
that inward change of heart
=
BIBLICAL REPENTANCE.

Anything other than this forumal does not equal biblical repentance no matter how you slice it and dice it.


The Bible tells us to "bear fruit in keeping with repentance" but this is clearly not meritorious,

Then why did John the Baptist turn those people away, refusing to baptize them?

Because without that outward CONDUCT WORTHY OF an inward change of heart, they did not have TRUE repentance.

Without TRUE repentance, there can be no remission of sins.


it is an encouragement to behave in a way that is consistent with our change of heart, that behavior being understood as the product, not the cause of our standing with God and the repentance so much a part of it.

Nope, this is totally contradicted by THayer and what the Greek word, translated repentance, means.

Please read my first post to this thread above again. I encluded a verse from Acts and Greek definition and quotes from Thayer's lexicon which apply to this verse.



Peace
 
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Adalbert

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lionroar0 said:
Yes the DR does say to do penance instead of repentance. Which is an acceptable translation.

This is the on the GReek from Blueletter bible. Which uses Strong's Concordance.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/3/1149379778-4941.html


1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent 2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins


The article from wikipedia is not accurate. The name of the Sacrament is not the Sacrament of Penance it is the Sacrament of Reconciliation formerly known as the Sacrament of Confession.



Wrong!!! The penitnet does not accuse himself or herself of his or her sin. He or she brings their sins to mind and brings then to the priest who at this time is the person of Christ. Therefore when a person brings their sins before a priest the penitent is bringing their sins before Christ.



Somewhat more accurate but still a bit out of context the priest absolves the peninent of sins and then the person is to perform penance whateve it may be.

What we see is that a person is 1st sorry for their sins. Then that person is Forgiven. Then that person is to do penance if any is assigned.

The idea of doing penance to merit forgiveness is a straw man.

Peace

Unfortunately, penance for the Christian is not acceptable, since that was done by Christ for the Christian, and He did it in completeness.
You can beat yourself silly with a whip, wear hairy shirts, recite repetitive prayers until the cows come home, and you will not affect penance.

That was Christ's privilege, to pay for our sins. It is something He did as the Lamb that was slain from the foundations of the world.

Penance is a waste of time and a slap in the face of the Blessed Redeemer.
 
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Adalbert

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cygnusx1 said:
I. REPENTANCE CONSIDERED ALONE​
1. ORIGINAL WORDS.
These two words are "metanoeo" (corresponding noun form being "metanoia") and "metamelomai" (the noun form of which does not occur in the New Testament). Only the former word is associated with salvation. The latter word is used in Matt. 21:29 (in the case of the son that first refused to obey his father’s command to work in the vineyard, but "afterward...repented himself and went" ); Matt. 21:32; 27:3 (in the case of Judas); Rom. 11:29; 2 Cor. 7:8,10; and Heb. 7:21.
Concerning these two words, Thayer says: "That ‘metanoeo’ is the fuller and nobler term, expressive of moral action and issues, is indicated not only by its derivation, but by the greater frequency of its use..."
2. TWO KINDS OF REPENTANCE.
There is an evangelical repentance and there is also a legal repentance. Legal repentance comes about wholly through fear of the consequences of sin. This is the kind Judas experienced. Evangelical repentance is accompanied by godly sorrow and is wrought in the heart by the regenerating Spirit of God. It is evangelical repentance that we are considering in this chapter.
3. THE CONSTITUENT ELEMENTS OF REPENTANCE.
(1) Sin Admitted—Conviction.
Man must see himself as unlike God and in rebellion against God. He must see the opposition between his condition and the holiness of God. He must see that God abhors his condition and state. The recognition of sin that enters into repentance unto salvation is concerned primarily, not with the fact that sin brings punishment, but with the fact that sin offends God. There is, of course, a fear of the eternal consequences of sin; but this is not the primary thing.
This recognition of sin is conviction, and it constitutes the intellectual element in repentance.
(2) Sin Abhorred—Contrition.
Godly sorrow enters into repentance. When one sees himself as he appears before God he is brought to regret his sin and to abhor it. This is the emotional element in repentance.
(3) Sin Abandoned—Conversion.
Repentance is not complete until there is an inward abandoning of sin which leads to an outward change of conduct. This is the voluntary or volitional element in repentance. Thus repentance concerns the whole inner nature: intellect, emotion, and will.
4. REPENTANCE IS INWARD.
While true repentance always manifests itself outwardly; yet repentance of itself is inward, according to the meaning of the original. The Scripture distinguishes between repentance and "fruits worthy of repentance" (Matt. 3:8; Acts 26:20).
5. REPENTANCE AND PENANCE CONTRASTED.
The Roman Catholic translation of the Bible (Douay Version) substitutes "penance" for "repentance" as a translation of "metanoeo." Thus we read from the Douay Version: "Do penance; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matt. 3:2); "Except you do penance, you shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:5); and "Testifying both to Jews and Gentiles penance toward God, and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21). And of penance, the comment in the Douay Version on Matt. 3:2 says: "Which word, according to the use of the scriptures, and the holy fathers, does not only signify repentance and amendment of life, but also punishing past sins by lasting, and such like penitential exercises." Three things may be said concerning this comment:
(1) It is absolutely false in saying that the "punishing of past sins by fasting, and such like penitential exercises" is a part of the meaning of the Greek word.
As already noted, the Greek word signifies an inward change. "True repentance consists of mental and spiritual emotions, and not of outward self-imposed chastisements. Even the pious life and devotion to God which follows are described not as repentance, but as fruits meet for repentance" (Boyce, Abstract of Systematic Theology, p. 384). "Metanoeo" is made of "meta," meaning "after," and "noeo," meaning to perceive, to understand, to think upon, heed, ponder, consider.
(2) It denies the sufficiency of Christ’s satisfaction for our sins, in plain contradiction of the Scripture (Cf. Rom. 4:7, 8; 10:4; Heb. 10:14; 1 John 1:7).
Since Christ made a full satisfaction for our sins, there is no punishment for us to endure, except the natural consequences of sin. God chastens the believer when he sins, but He never punishes him either in this life or the life to come. Punishment is retributive, and is based on "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." Chastisement is corrective, and is based on fatherly love. Christ left us nothing to pay, and we can truthfully sing:
"Jesus paid it all;
All to Him I owe.
Sin had left a crimson stain;
He washed it white as snow."​
(3) It implies that the temporal acts of the creature can atone for sin.
The Bible knows nothing of such a teaching. It teaches that Christ alone could make an atonement. Even in eternity the souls in Hell will never be able to atone for sin; for that reason there is no end to their punishment. Surely, then, the song speaks the truth when it says:
"Could my tears forever flow;
Could my zeal no respite know;
These for sin could not atone,
Thou must save and thou alone."​
6. REPENTANCE IS A GIFT OF GOD.
The three following passages prove this:
"Him did God exalt with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins" (Acts 5:31).
"And when they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then to the Gentiles also hath God granted repentance unto life" (Acts ll:18).
"The Lord’s servant must not strive, but be gentle towards all, apt to teach, forbearing, in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim. 2:24,25).
The meaning of this is simply that repentance is wrought in man by the quickening power of the Holy Spirit, as we have already noted.
II. FAITH CONSIDERED ALONE​
We have reference here to saving faith. Hence we note:
1. SAVING FAITH DEFINED.
Saving faith is trust in and reliance on the Lord Jesus Christ as one’s personal Saviour and sin-bearer. And, since salvation includes sanctification as well as justification, saving faith brings about a commitment of self to Christ.
2. SAVING FAITH DISTINGUISHED FROM ITS COUNTERFEITS.
(1) Historical Belief.
This is mere belief in the facts of revelation as matters of history, including belief in the existence of God and that there was a man called Jesus who claimed to be the Son of God. It can be readily seen that such belief has no saving value.
(2) Intellectual Assent.
This goes a step farther, bringing mental acceptance of the things revealed of God and Jesus Christ. Thus one who believes in the existence of God comes to believe Him to be such a being as the Bible reveals Him to be, and one who believes that such a person as Jesus lived comes to believe that He was the Son of God and that He died as a sacrifice for sin. This is a step toward saving faith, but it is not such faith.
Campbellism teaches that saving faith is nothing more than the foregoing. It relies on such passages as 1 John 4:15 and 5:1. But these passages must be understood in the light of all other Scripture, and other Scripture certainly forbids that the belief spoken of in these passages should be understood as being mere intellectual assent to the deity of Christ. Saving faith is not merely of the mind (intellect), but of the heart (emotions). See Rom. 10:9,10. The belief spoken of in the above passages is such as is produced in the heart by an experimental knowledge of Christ’s power.
Then two facts as to the circumstances under which these expressions were uttered throw light upon them.
A. The danger of professing belief in the deity of Christ was such in apostolic days that none would do so unless prompted by true faith in Him.
B. Christianity presented such a contrast to Judaism and Paganism that none would believe in the deity of Christ without true faith in Him. Those who had not this faith would regard Him as an imposter.
3. FAITH IS A GIFT OF GOD.
This is proved by the passages already quoted that designate repentance as a gift of God; for as we shall see, repentance and faith are inseparable graces. Each one, when appearing alone in the Scriptures, embraces the other; for, if this were not true, the passages which mention only the one or the other would teach that one may be saved without both repentance and faith.
This is proved by passages which teach that our coming to Christ and believing on Him are the result of the working of God’s power. See John 6:37, 65; Eph. 1:19, 20. This is further proved by the fact that faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal. 5:22).
4. FAITH HAS NO MERIT IN ITSELF.
Faith is merely the channel through which God’s justifying and sanctifying grace flows into the soul. Faith is no more meritorious than the act of receiving a gift is meritorious. Faith in no way is a substitute for our obedience to the law, nor does it bring about a lowering of the law so that we can meet its demands. Faith is once referred to as work in the Scripture (John 6:29), not that it is of the law, but only that man is actively engaged in its exercise. "As a gift of God and as the mere taking of undeserved mercy, it is expressly excluded from the category of works on the basis of which man may claim salvation (Rom. 3:28; 4:4, 5, 16). It is not the act of the full soul bestowing, but the act of the empty soul receiving. Although this reception is prompted by a drawing of the heart toward God, inwrought by the Holy Spirit, this drawing of the heart is not yet a conscious and developed love: such love is the result of faith (Gal. 5:6)" (A. H. Strong, Systematic Theology, pp. 469, 470).
5. FAITH IS NECESSARILY EXPRESSES ITSELF IN WORKS.
Faith is a dynamic principle. It gives rise to love; and, therefore, works (Gal. 5:6). Faith that does not express itself in works is a dead faith, which is just another way of saying that it is spurious or unreal (Jas. 2:17).
6. FAITH IS DISTINGUISHABLE FROM HOPE.
Faith and hope are very much akin; but the two terms are not synonymous. Faith and hope differ in the following ways:
(1) Faith is trust; hope is expectation.
The difference here is narrow, but is such a difference as is common between various somewhat similar terms. Both faith and hope involve "the idea of trust," but with the use of different prepositions (Boyce). We "trust in" as an act of faith. We "trust for" in hope.
(2) "Faith is reliance upon something now present as known or believed, Hope is looking forward to something in the future" (Boyce).
(3) Christ is the object of faith; while salvation, freedom from sin, glorification, and Heaven are the objects of hope.
(4) Hope results from faith, and, therefore, cannot be faith. See Rom. 5:2-6; 15:4-13; Gal. 5:5; Heb. 11:1.
7. THE GROUND OF FAITH
Christ, objectively revealed to the mind and heart is the ground of faith. This is implied throughout the Bible, and it is unmistakably taught in Rom. 10:11-17. We read there that "faith cometh by hearing," and we find also there the question (implying an impossibility): "How shall they believe on him of whom they have not heard." The Bible knows nothing, absolutely nothing, about a so-called secret faith that can exist apart from knowledge of Christ, such as some Hardshells teach.
In the Old Testament Christ was revealed, not only through types and shadows, but through prophets, such as Isaiah. And we are told plainly that the gospel was preached to Abraham and to Israel (Gal. 3:8; Heb. 4:2).
III. REPENTANCE AND FAITH CONSIDERED TOGETHER​
Repentance and faith are inseparable synchronous graces. We have reference here, of course, to that repentance (signified by "metanoeo" and "metnaoia") which is unto salvation, and not to the kind (signified by "metamelomai") that Judas experienced.
That repentance and faith are synchronous or simultaneous is evident from the fact that when a man is quickened into life there can be no lapse of time before he repents, nor can there be any before he believes. Otherwise we would have the new nature in rebellion against God and in unbelief. Thus there can be no chronological order in repentance and faith.
Another thing which shows the inseparableness of repentance and faith is the fact that the Scripture often mentions only one of them as the means of salvation. Because of this fact we must think of each one, when used alone, as comprehending the other.
In repentance and faith, as we have already pointed out in another chapter, the will is brought to choose righteousness as an ultimate end.

http://www.pbministries.org/Theology/Simmons/chapter25.htm
"Jesus paid it all"

Is all-encompassing. We need to do no penance, it was done for us.
God bless you.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Adalbert said:
Unfortunately, penance for the Christian is not acceptable, since that was done by Christ for the Christian, and He did it in completeness.

No, Christ never did penance . . . :) Christ suffered for our sins, paid the penalty for our sins .. .

Penance has to do with REPENTANCE, Christ never repented.


You can beat yourself silly with a whip, wear hairy shirts, recite repetitive prayers until the cows come home, and you will not affect penance.

Well, the writers of the scriptures stand against such a notion . . for they say otherwise.


That was Christ's privilege, to pay for our sins.

Penance doesn't "pay" for our sins any more than turning away from sin and repenting inwardly "pays" for our sins.

You do not have a proper concept of repentance or penance. Did you read my first poist above from yesterday?

It is something He did as the Lamb that was slain from the foundations of the world.

Penance is a waste of time and a slap in the face of the Blessed Redeemer.

Obviously, you do not understand what penance is or its relationship to repentance, or that for there to be geunine repentance, it must necessarily include penance.

This is what the GREEK word translated 'repentance' actually means and conveys . . .


Take part of it away, and you no longer have repentance.



Peace
 
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