Rebellious Women

[All4Christ]

I don't think you would find any leaders even in a movement that calls itself a 'patriarchy movement' that teaches that men are more important than women.

Perhaps inferior is the better word. Jesus was quite revolutionary in overcoming the cultural view of women being inferior to men, but you still find it today in some areas of Christianity.

That seems to me to be a wise approach to leadership, marriage included.

Actually, I've heard the same idea in my management studies for determining at what level decisions should be made in an organization, also. I teach the same general idea when I get to organizational charts and structure in one of my classes.

Agreed. I've learned that too in some of my leadership and Project Management courses - and in practice with my team at work.

 

[Rodan6]

Paul wrote some unfortunate things in his letters that have been raised up to the words of Christ. In Paul's letters we have his personal thoughts in response to those who asked him questions. Where Jesus' teachings were involved, he gave his best interpretation from his own knowledge. On questions NOT addressed by the Master, he gave his own opinion. Paul was human and powerfully influenced by the social order of his day. It must be remembered that Jewish society was extremely patriarchal in these times.

I'm confident that if Paul had known that his letters would be worshiped by people many thousands of years after he wrote them, he would have been far more careful to avoid topics that were not a part of Jesus' teachings.

 

[LinkH]

Rodan6,
Paul was also very much influences by the laws God gave to Israel, some of which were also quite patriarchal.

You take a fundamentally different approach to the Bible than I do. You have a different idea about the inspiration of the scriptures and the revelation and authority to teach given to the apostles. In Ephesians 5, Paul presents teaching on a mystery that had been revealed to him. Is there any reason to think that your opinions and modern mores are any superior to what the apostles wrote in the Bible?

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

Even the word "rule"---does that even sound loving to you?

Do you secretly hate your government, don't you?

Everything could be abused. A kitchen knife could be a tool to cut vegetables or murder people.

This is the very word of God:
"You will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you."
--- Genesis 3:16, NLT

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

Double post.

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

Paul was human and powerfully influenced by the social order of his day.

So, Pauline messages are fallible?

 

[mkgal1]

Do you secretly hate your government, don't you?

Not secretly---but ATM? Yes....but that's a whole other topic.

Everything could be abused. A kitchen knife could be a tool to cut vegetables or murder people.

This is the very word of God:
"You will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you."
--- Genesis 3:16, NLT

First of all: what version is *that* and why are words added?

It should read:

"your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.’ "....

...and that's describing the fall--exactly what we are NOT to live like. Christ came to "set the captives free".

 

[All4Christ]

Not secretly---but ATM? Yes....but that's a whole other topic.


First of all: what version is *that* and why are words added?

It should read:

"your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.’ "....

...and that's describing the fall--exactly what we are NOT to live like. Christ came to "set the captives free".

This is why I don't like translations like the New Living Translation. They often take liberties in the interpretation of Scripture.

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

"your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.’ "....

...and that's describing the fall--exactly what we are NOT to live like. Christ came to "set the captives free".

Submission to husband is like slavery?

So, Paul who wrote Ephesians letter is a misogynist & false apostle, didn't he?

 

[mkgal1]

Submission to husband is like slavery?

The way some people interpret it....yes, but I don't believe that's what Paul (or God) intended.

So, Paul who wrote Ephesians letter is a misogynist & false apostle, didn't he?

No....it's in the [mis]interpretations that there's misogyny and false teaching.

To me...."submission" means not much more beyond "having a desire to cleave to each other" in Christ (another person put it as to "not be competing with each other"...which I also agree with). IOW....laying aside selfish ambition and rudeness (and that takes BOTH spouses doing so). "Loving like Christ loves the church" --IMV--looks just like submission.

 

[Rodan6]

Rodan6,
Paul was also very much influences by the laws God gave to Israel, some of which were also quite patriarchal.

You take a fundamentally different approach to the Bible than I do. You have a different idea about the inspiration of the scriptures and the revelation and authority to teach given to the apostles. In Ephesians 5, Paul presents teaching on a mystery that had been revealed to him. Is there any reason to think that your opinions and modern mores are any superior to what the apostles wrote in the Bible?

Indeed! God has revealed many things to mankind since the times Jesus and Paul walked the earth. Just 60 years ago a black man had to sit at the back of a bus. A hundred years ago women could not vote. The bible is a wonderful source of truth and inspiration to us all. It is a great mistake to worship this book however. "Modern mores" are not to be feared. It is Gods will and command that mankind evolve--and that even greater truths will be revealed to us when we become ready to receive them.

 

[Nerissa1969]

No, I want to make feminist-minded women aware that they're putting their eternal resting place in jeopardy. I actually don't desire that they go to the lake of fire.

Oh my gosh, this is hilarious. You cannot possibly be serious. You are in no place to warn me or anyone else that their eternal resting place is in jeopardy. Worry about yourself, dude. You have control issues and possibly need therapy.

 

[mkgal1]

This came to mind when I read "worry about yourself" (sorry....I just can't resist):

 

[Nerissa1969]

That is so cute!

 

[FredVB]

To my understanding feminism is about equal opportunity to equal pay at work, I can't be against that. Rebellion is about other things, not that. There is rebellion against God that puts us against God, that we should take care to not do.

 

[Paidiske]

Seven years had been *almost* long enough to forget this woeful thread.