• With the events that occured on July 13th, 2024, a reminder that posts wishing that the attempt was successful will not be tolerated. Regardless of political affiliation, at no point is any type of post wishing death on someone is allowed and will be actioned appropriately by CF Staff.

  • Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Realization of Personal Villainy

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
40,059
20,993
US
✟1,544,624.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I wasn't sure where to put this, because it's a personal confession. But it springs from a science fiction television program, so I'll put it here.

One of my now-favorite science fiction programs is Star Wars: Andor. The program is a really remarkable showcase of sparkling dialog, a tight plot, epic high points...it's just a great show.

At one point, a character is about to be tortured by an Empire technician-scientist. The man is clearly a nerd type, kind of like a Nazi scientist who is totally involved with the technology and not making a connection with the inhuman horror his technology is a achieving. As he is preparing his torture machine to be used on the victim, he's practically giddy with delight in describing the details of how they came to develop such exquisite torture technology. He was killing people, and the technology was soooooooo cool to him. Boooo, you bad guy, you!

I watched that maybe twice before it brought back to my mind an evening during the DESERT STORM bombing phase of the Persian Gulf War. I had done "bomb scoring" during Vietnam and had always been disgusted by the inaccuracy of "dumb" bombs in that war. The statistic was that it took 24 strike attempts to successfully destroy one target, which meant that 23 bomb strikes hit something else. Something like 95% of the bombs dropped in the Vietnam war had destroyed something or someone unintended.

But we were using "smart" weapons on Iraq, and from the first night of bomb scoring, the results were spectacular. We were truly achieving "One target, one bomb" results. Our Tomahawk missiles were literally able to fly through the front door of a building, negotiate the building to a specific office, enter it and explode. Sooooooooo cool!

But we were having a problem penetrating the "Yugoslav" aircraft bunkers at the Iraqi airfields. Our penetration bombs were just exploding on the concrete surface, blowing out a shallow crater but not penetrating as intended. Bummer!

It took only two weeks before the technicians had developed a new penetrating smart bomb for the Yugoslav bunkers. I remember looking at the reconnaissance imagery that first night and noting the neat "pinholes" on the surface of the bunkers (instead of a crater), showing that it had nicely penetrated the shell. Then in front of the bunker, the blast doors lay on the concrete like burnt potato chips, the evidence that the bomb had penetrated and exploded inside, killing anyone inside. I called over other people to take a look. Soooooooo cool!

If you were watching CNN during that time, you probably saw some of the "bomb camera" footage from the attack aircraft. In that footage, you could see the weapons officer's crosshairs on the target for the seconds that he guided the bomb into it, then the explosion of the target being destroyed.

Well, in one case, I had located a camouflaged bunker at an airfield, probably where the aircrews lived. It would not have been discovered if I hadn't been exceptionally good at my job. I reported it and flagged it as a target.

The next night, I got a chance to see the bomb camera footage of that very bunker being struck. This time, as we watched the crosshairs on the bunker while the bomb was gliding toward it, suddenly the figure of a man dashed from the side and dived into the bunker...a split second before the bomb struck it and destroyed it.

That was a new sensation for me, and it was unpleasant. It's certainly not what combat troops go through. I had an uncle who during the Korean War actually had to strangle an enemy soldier to death with his bare hands....no, this was certainly not like that.

But after watching that scene in Andor, it brought back to me the feeling I had with the first evidence of success of the new bunker-busting bombs. It was the same kind of giddiness over a weapon that the Imperial torturer displayed. I had been that guy.
 
Last edited:

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
10,237
6,773
25
WI
✟584,565.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I wasn't sure where to put this, because it's a personal confession. But it springs from a science fiction television program, so I'll put it here.

One of my now-favorite science fiction programs is Star Trek: Andor. The program is a really remarkable showcase of sparkling dialog, a tight plot, epic high points...it's just a great show.

At one point, a character is about to be tortured by an Empire technician-scientist. The man is clearly a nerd type, kind of like a Nazi scientist who is totally involved with the technology and not making a connection with the inhuman horror his technology is a achieving. As he is preparing his torture machine to be used on the victim, he's practically giddy with delight in describing the details of how they came to develop such exquisite torture technology. He was killing people, and the technology was soooooooo cool to him. Boooo, you bad guy, you!

I watched that maybe twice before it brought back to my mind an evening during the DESERT STORM bombing phase of the Persian Gulf War. I had done "bomb scoring" during Vietnam and had always been disgusted by the inaccuracy of "dumb" bombs in that war. The statistic was that it took 24 strike attempts to successfully destroy one target, which meant that 23 bomb strikes hit something else. Something like 95% of the bombs dropped in the Vietnam war had destroyed something or someone unintended.

But we were using "smart" weapons on Iraq, and from the first night of bomb scoring, the results were spectacular. We were truly achieving "One target, one bomb" results. Our Tomahawk missiles were literally able to fly through the front door of a building, negotiate the building to a specific office, enter it and explode. Sooooooooo cool!

But we were having a problem penetrating the "Yugoslav" aircraft bunkers at the Iraqi airfields. Our penetration bombs were just exploding on the concrete surface, blowing out a shallow crater but not penetrating as intended. Bummer!

It took only two weeks before the technicians had developed a new penetrating smart bomb for the Yugoslav bunkers. I remember looking at the reconnaissance imagery that first night and noting the neat "pinholes" on the surface of the bunkers (instead of a crater), showing that it had nicely penetrated the shell. Then in front of the bunker, the blast doors lay on the concrete like burnt potato chips, the evidence that the bomb had penetrated and exploded inside, killing anyone inside. I called over other people to take a look. Soooooooo cool!

If you were watching CNN during that time, you probably saw some of the "bomb camera" footage from the attack aircraft. In that footage, you could see the weapons officer's crosshairs on the target for the seconds that he guided the bomb into it, then the explosion of the target being destroyed.

Well, in one case, I had located a camouflaged bunker at an airfield, probably where the aircrews lived. It would not have been discovered if I hadn't been exceptionally good at my job. I reported it and flagged it as a target.

The next night, I got a chance to see the bomb camera footage of that very bunker being struck. This time, as we watched the crosshairs on the bunker while the bomb was gliding toward it, suddenly the figure of a man dashed from the side and dived into the bunker...a split second before the bomb struck it and destroyed it.

That was a new sensation for me, and it was unpleasant. It's certainly not what combat troops go through. I had an uncle who during the Korean War actually had to strangle an enemy soldier to death with his bare hands....no, this was certainly not like that.

But after watching that scene in Andor, it brought back to me the feeling I had with the first evidence of success of the new bunker-busting bombs. It was the same kind of giddiness over a weapon that the Imperial torturer displayed. I had been that guy.
You mean Star Wars: Andor? Star Trek has a planet named Andor as well, but there is no Star Trek movie named Andor. :)

I was not around during Desert Storm, but the tech started to getting more advanced during the 1990s. War is a pretty dark machine, so it is good that you have realized your actions, and realize your sins. God has the power to reveal our sins through His Word (Psalm 119:130), and can help us feel remorse and change our ways.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Vambram

Born-again Christian; Constitutional conservative
Dec 3, 2006
4,190
2,507
59
Saint James, Missouri
✟121,962.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
In real life, I believe that there is a clear moral difference between torturing a prisoner of war with that of using a weapon of war on the battlefield to defeat enemy soldiers.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: AlexB23
Upvote 0

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
10,237
6,773
25
WI
✟584,565.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
In real life, I believe that there is a clear moral difference between torturing a prisoner of war with that of using a weapon of war on the battlefield to defeat enemy soldiers.
True, and a quick death is more humane when fighting the enemy, while there could be other methods to get info out of a prisoner of war. It is good that we both believe that torture is unethical.

In fact, even the Catholics believe that torture violates human rights:
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,897
6,102
✟326,106.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
The next night, I got a chance to see the bomb camera footage of that very bunker being struck. This time, as we watched the crosshairs on the bunker while the bomb was gliding toward it, suddenly the figure of a man dashed from the side and dived into the bunker...a split second before the bomb struck it and destroyed it.

That was a new sensation for me, and it was unpleasant. It's certainly not what combat troops go through. I had an uncle who during the Korean War actually had to strangle an enemy soldier to death with his bare hands....no, this was certainly not like that.

But after watching that scene in Andor, it brought back to me the feeling I had with the first evidence of success of the new bunker-busting bombs. It was the same kind of giddiness over a weapon that the Imperial torturer displayed. I had been that guy.

Yeah, America is the biggest terrorist in the world!^_^

This might be the reason USA is now trying to avoid getting involved in conflicts around the world because everyone is starting to see things in such perspective or USA is now too broke to be involved in wars.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
40,059
20,993
US
✟1,544,624.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In real life, I believe that there is a clear moral difference between torturing a prisoner of war with that of using a weapon of war on the battlefield to defeat enemy soldiers.
I agree. But I think there is a problem in war with the separation of the act from its effects as war has become so much more technological.

That torturer, directly applying his exquisite technology on his victim and directly seeing the effects of his exquisite technology on the victim...and still being giddy about...yeah, that's a special level of inhumanity.

In my case, I hadn't before seen "my" technology actually kill a person or the "ground truth" effects on our "targets." I'd see more of that over the course of the Persian Gulf war.

During the Bosnian War, there was a period in which no enemy soldiers were being killed at all...only civilians. I watched a news program interviewing a couple of American Army generals and a couple of American Air Force generals in which that issue was raised. The Army generals displayed and spoke of clear distress over that problem; the Air Force generals were unperturbed. I think those different reactions were the result of their own personal experiences with combat. For the Army generals, when they were junior officers, violence had been face-to-face. For the Air Force generals, violence had been a push of a button "beyond visual range" (BVR).

My old Air Force career field today includes Predator drone operation, and since then it's become one of the highest specialties suffering suicides and mental breakdowns. People are having a hard time surveilling an "intelligence objective" for substantive amount of time--seeing his family, seeing his life, in a way getting to know him--then one day orders arrive and the "intelligence objective" turns into an "operational target." Back in my day, we at least only saw it after the fact...they are watching it in real time.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0