Questions about the Baha'i

[Niblo]

From Sermon 72:

‘My God, the Spreader of the surfaces (of earth) and Keeper (intact) of all skies, Creator of hearts on good and evil nature, send Thy choicest blessings and growing favours on Muhammad Thy servant and Thy Prophet who is the last of those who preceded (him).’

And from Sermon 87:

‘O people learn this saying of the last of the Prophets: “He who dies from among us is not dead, and he who decays (after dying) from among us does not really decay”. Do not say what you do not understand, because most of the Right is in what you deny.’

Comment:

According to the Imam, Muhammad is ‘the last of those who preceded him’…‘the last of the Prophets’. There is no ambiguity here.

From Sermon 91:

‘Even when He made Adam die, He did not leave them without one who would serve among them as proof and plea for His Godhead, and serve as the link between them and His knowledge, but He provided to them the proofs through His chosen Messengers and bearers of the trust of His Message, age after age till the process came to end with our Prophet Muhammad - Allah may bless him and his descendants - and His pleas and warnings reached finality.’

And from Sermon 133:

‘The Book of Allah is among you. It speaks and its tongue does not falter. It is a house whose pillars do not fall down, and a power whose supporters are never routed. Allah deputised the Prophet after a gap from the previous prophets when there was much talk (among the people). With him Allah exhausted the series of prophets and ended the revelation.’

Comment:

The Imam confirms that the process of Prophethood - and the series of prophets - came to an end with Muhammad; and that the process of revelation has ended.

 

[Niblo]

And from Sermon 234:

‘May my father and my mother shed their lives for you, O Messenger of Allah! With your death the process of prophethood, revelation and heavenly messages has stopped, which had not stopped at the death of others (prophets).’

Comment:

This sermon was delivered when the Imam was busy at Muhammad’s funeral ablutions.

The Imam is in no doubt at all that Muhammad is the last of the prophets. He speaks with the conviction that comes from a lifetime at the Prophet’s side; and from hearing his words: ‘These will be no prophet after me!’

Those who disagree with the Imam are entitled to do so. What they are not entitled to do is to say that he (and the rest of the Muslims) do not understand either their own Book or the teaching of their Prophet.

For the Muslims there is no need for any prophet after Muhammad. In the words of Imam ʿAlī he has left among them: ‘the Book of your Creator clarifying its permission and prohibitions, its obligations and discretion, its repealing injunctions and the repealed ones, its permissible matters and compulsory ones, its particulars and the general ones, its lessons and illustrations, its long and the short ones, its clear and obscure ones, detailing its abbreviations and clarifying its obscurities.’

And, finally, from Sermon 110:

‘Go ahead with the remembrance of Allah for it is the best remembrance, and long for that which He has promised to the pious, for His promise is the most true promise. Tread the course of the Prophet for it is the most distinguished course. Follow the Sunnah of the Prophet for it is the most right of all behaviours. Learn the Qur'an for it is the fairest of discourses and understand it thoroughly for it is the best blossoming of hearts. Seek cure with its light for it is the cure for hearts. Recite it beautifully for it is the most beautiful narration.’

These words are as relevant today as they were when first spoken. Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) knows best!

Have a great day.

 

[steve_bakr]

Christian sects differ on the books contained in the Gospel, which Gospel is correct?
Christians added book/s to the Gospel, abrogating Jesus' confirmation of previous Scripture, example:

Acts 15 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

There were several Gospels that were circulated among Christian communities. The earliest Gospel was Mark, followed by Matthew and Luke, then John. These were all written in the 1st Christian century. A later Gospel was Thomas, which contains "sayings" of Jesus. The Apocryphal Gospels were penned later--mostly in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. In the 4th Christian century, the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were canonized.

Martin Lings, a Muslim scholar, pointed out (correctly, I think) the difference between the Quran and the Gospel (which actually means "Good News"). The Quran is believed to be the "Word of God," whereas the Christian Gospel is a "Testamony to the Word of God." In Christianity, the Word of God is actually Jesus Christ himself.

Jesus Christ is said--by the Gospel of John--to have embodied the pre-eternal Word ("Logos" in Greek). In Jesus Christ is a Realization of Divinity, coexisting with his humanity in a "hypostatic union."

Most probably, the development of the Muslim concept of the pre-eternal logos (the "Muhammadan Light") was influenced by this Christian belief.

The Gospels have undergone more thorough textual and historical Scholarship than the Quran. Most of this has been conducted by secular scholars.

I don't think there is an equivalent of textual scholarship--as it has been conducted in the West--in the Islamic countries. This is because secular scholarship does not operate with the assumption of the "Divine Inspiration" of the religious text. Secular textual and historical scholarship ruthlessly questions everything. The Gospels have been put through all of this.

There is some textual scholarship of the Quran being conducted in the West, resulting in some rather wild theories, such as multiple authorship

My experience with the Quran is listening to its recitation and reading the beautiful Quranic Arabic script, often in the early hours before sunrise. I am letting the Quran be what it is--as it is. I am not enthusiastic about textual scholarship of the Quran, and personally hate to see it go through that process.

 

[Mumin]

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[light upon light]

Niblo,

Do you accept the coming of a great day of Resurrection when the Qaim and Qayyum (Shia) / Mahdi and Jesus Christ (Sunni) will return to the Earth, defeat evil, and usher in an age of peace over all the world?

 

[Niblo]

Niblo,

Do you accept the coming of a great day of Resurrection when the Qaim and Qayyum (Shia) / Mahdi and Jesus Christ (Sunni) will return to the Earth, defeat evil, and usher in an age of peace over all the world?

Hello,

I believe in Yawm al-Qiyāmah, and all that goes with it, according to the Sunni traditions. As for the finer details… Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) knows best. I prefer leaving it to Him.

Have a great day!

 

[steve_bakr]

In regard to Bible authorship I mentioned before, NIV Bible's theologians and historians wrote:

You are quoting some of the rigorous textual and historical criticism of the Bible, which the Quran is not subject to in the Islamic countries.

But what, really, is your point? You have to realize the difference in the concept of "Divine Inspiration" between the Bible and Quran. The Bible is not claimed to be "Divine Dictation."

All of this scholarship does not alter the Divine Truth expressed in the Bible, under the inspiration of God coexisting with human agency. You need to understand that.

What you are showing is how rigorous and vast the scholarship on the Bible really is. Ultimately, this scholarship has strengthened the Christian Scriptures, because every possible question you can conceive of has already been thoroughly investigated.

Biblical scholarship does not prove any "corruption" of the Bible, but simply demonstrates its unfoldment as an inspired text and the nature of how God involves human agency. The Bible is about the action of God in human history and man's relationship with God.

I wonder if you could be as kind about the Bible as I am about the Quran?

 

[steve_bakr]

You are inventing it. If the religion is foreign to them, we have to invite them as well:

16:125 Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is (rightly) guided.

Language or culture are not an excuse

41:44 And if We had made it a non-Arabic Qur'an, they would have said, “Why are its verses not explained in detail (in our language)? Is it a foreign (recitation) and an Arab (messenger)?” Say, “It is, for those who believe, a guidance and cure.” And those who do not believe – in their ears is deafness, and it is upon them blindness. Those are being called from a distant place.

Sure, some may be receptive and able to make that adaptation. I will tell you, though, just from my experience in learning to read the Quran in Arabic. Arabic is not easy to learn. Not everyone is blessed with the time I was able to invest in it, and I am far from being an expert. I am blessed with some language skills (to compensate for my shortcomings), and it was still quite difficult for me.

I don't believe that Allāh demands from people that which they cannot do. No. And you are still missing the point that Allāh gave to each people a Prophet and a Messenge "in their own tongue," so they could understand.

When the Quran says to invite everyone to Islam, the context is in Arabia where the inhabitants spoke Arabic. There are statements in the Quran that address particular situations. Not everything is a blanket Universal statement.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Is the Quran the standard for Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus? The answer is no. The reason is that Allah does not expect all the people of other cultures to adopt and learn a Book, a language, a culture, and a religion that is totally foreign to them. No.

Allaah and the Prophet have shown otherwise.

And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember? (Surah al-Qamar 54:17)

And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds. (Surah al-Anbiya 21:107)

So the Prophet Muhammad was sent to mankind, jinn, and all that exists. Other Prophets were only sent to their specific nations.

And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers. (Surah ale 'Imraan 3:89)

O Mankind, the Messenger has come to you with the truth from your Lord, so believe; it is better for you. But if you disbelieve - then indeed, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and earth. And ever is Allah Knowing and Wise. (Surah an-Nisaa 4:170)

O mankind, there has come to you a conclusive proof from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a clear light. So those who believe in Allah and hold fast to Him - He will admit them to mercy from Himself and bounty and guide them to Himself on a straight path. (4:174-175)

You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah . If only the People of the Scripture had believed, it would have been better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are defiantly disobedient. (Suran ale 'Imran 3:110)

It is He who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion, although they who associate others with Allah dislike it. (Surah at-Tawbah 9:33)

O mankind, there has to come to you instruction from your Lord and healing for what is in the breasts and guidance and mercy for the believers. (Surah Yunus 10:57)

Say, "O mankind, the truth has come to you from your Lord, so whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul, and whoever goes astray only goes astray [in violation] against it. And I am not over you a manager." (Surah Yunus 10:108)

This [Qur'an] is notification for the people that they may be warned thereby and that they may know that He is but one God and that those of understanding will be reminded. (Surah Ibrahim 14:52)

Allaah's Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any amongst the Prophets before me. These are: -1. Allaah made me victorious by awe (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey. -2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum. Therefore my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due. -3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me (and was not made so for anyone else). -4. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation exclusively but I have been sent to all mankind. -5. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection.) [Saheeh al-Bukhaari]

I have been given superiority over the other prophets in six respects: I have been given words which are concise but comprehensive in meaning; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies): spoils have been made lawful to me: the earth has been made for me clean and a place of worship; I have been sent to all mankind and the line of prophets is closed with me. [Saheeh Muslim]


“This matter (Islam) will keep spreading as far as the night and day reach, until Allah will not exclude a house made of clay or a woolen tent, but will make this religion enter it, by bringing might to a mighty person (a Muslim) and humiliation to a disgraced person (who rejects Islam), in a manner that glorifies Islam and humiliates disbelief.” [Al-Albani, on the condition of Muslim]

Furthermore, the Prophet Muhammad sent his companions to other lands to invite them to Islaam even though they were of different religions, cultures, and languages. He sent letters inviting kings to Islaam. This is what he said to Heraclius:

"In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

This letter is from Muhammad the slave of God and His Messenger to Heraclius, the ruler of the Byzantines.

Peace be upon him who follows the right path.

I am writing this invitation to call you to Islam. If you become a Muslim you will be safe - and God will double your reward, but if you reject this invitation of Islam you will bear the sin of having misguided your subjects. Thus do I urge you to heed the following:

“O People of the Scriptures! Come to a word common to you and us that we worship none but Allah and that we associate nothing in worship with Him, and that none of us shall take others as Lords beside Allah. Then if they turn away, say: Bear witness that we are Muslims.”

Muhammad, the Messenger of God"

Egypt, Syria, Palestine, India, Persia, etc. had different languages, cultures, religions yet the Companions of the Prophet spread Islaam to them.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Plenty more to show that Islaam is meant for everyone and it is the one and only religion that God has ordained for mankind.

[snip] That was not for ordinary Muslims, so these will probably believe that saying the Quran is the standard is a universal statement applying to everyone on the globe rather than a specific statement applying specifically to Muslims.

Islaam and the Qur'aan are not just for people who reach a so-called state of mind/heart where they can unlock special knowledge. They are for everyone. No secret knowledge that is unattainable except for the select few.

As for Ibn 'Arabi, well, he had some incredibly strange views such as saying that the people who were worshipping the calf were actually worshipping Allaah (or the people worshipping idols in the time of Noah peace be upon him were actually worshipping Allaah).

 

[Arthra]

If there are any questions you'd like to ask about Baha'i Faith please feel free to ask them here....

I know that Baha'is believe the revelation from God continues and the view regarding the title "Seal of the Prophets" is that the age of prophecy is sealed while the age of fulfillment has begun.

From the Kitab-i-Iqan:

Even as in the "Beginning that hath no beginnings" the term "last" is truly applicable unto Him who is the Educator of the visible and of the invisible, in like manner, are the terms "first" and "last" applicable unto His Manifestations. They are at the same time the Exponents of both the "first" and the "last." Whilst established upon the seat of the "first," they occupy the throne of the "last." Were a discerning eye to be found, it will readily perceive that the exponents of the "first" and the "last," of the "manifest" and the "hidden," of the "beginning" and the "seal" are none other than these holy Beings, these Essences of Detachment, these divine Souls. And wert thou to soar in the holy realm of "God was alone, there was none else besides Him," thou wilt find in that Court all these names utterly non-existent and completely forgotten. Then will thine eyes no longer be obscured by these veils, these terms, and allusions. How ethereal and lofty is this station, unto which even Gabriel, unshepherded, can never attain, and the Bird of Heaven, unassisted, can never reach!

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 163

 

[dlamberth]

As for Ibn 'Arabi, well, he had some incredibly strange views such as saying that the people who were worshipping the calf were actually worshipping Allaah (or the people worshipping idols in the time of Noah peace be upon him were actually worshipping Allaah).

It's not so strange when one understands that being infinite, God is in all forms.

.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Christian sects differ on the books contained in the Gospel, which Gospel is correct?

Every mainstream Christian church/denomination/tradition accepts exactly twenty-seven books for the New Testament, four of which are the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

We accept all four of them.

Christians added book/s to the Gospel, abrogating Jesus' confirmation of previous Scripture

There never existed a single book called "the Gospel". It never existed. The earliest texts produced which came to be known as "gospels" were Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John--all written in the last half of the 1st century.

The New Testament, on the other hand, is a collection of texts which includes the four Gospels, and consists of those books received and accepted as Holy Scripture by the Christian Church down through the ages.

The Gospel is not, and never was, a book; it's a message.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Mumin]

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[Mumin]

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[Mumin]

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[Supreme]

According to wikipedia, the canonical gospel were written in 4th century, so you say the Apocryphal Gospels were written in 2nd and 3rd centuries, that is before the canonical ones. Wikipedia:
"Estimates for the dates when the canonical gospel accounts were written vary significantly; and the evidence for any of the dates is scanty. Because the earliest surviving complete copies of the gospels date to the 4th century and because only fragments and quotations exist before that"

Wikipedia doesn't say that the Gospels were written in the 4th century- and I think you know that. You're trying to twist the truth to suit your own agenda, hoping that our reading comprehension is poor- and it ain't gonna wash.

Pro-tip: If you're going to say that Wikipedia says something, don't copy a completely different statement that contradicts yourself in the following line. It just looks a bit silly.

 

[Mumin]

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[Arthra]

Baha'is generally recognize the Gospels as accepted by the Christian church... You will find in the Baha'is Writings references to the various Gospels...

An example:

In the Gospel according to St John, Christ has said: "Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven."[1] The priests have interpreted this into meaning that baptism is necessary for salvation. In another Gospel it is said: "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire."[2]
[1 St John iii, 5.]
[2 St Matthew iii, 11.] [bless and do not curse]82[bless and do not curse]

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 82

and

O Shaykh! Hearken unto the melodies of the Gospel with the ear of fairness. He saith -- glorified be His utterance -- prophesying the things that are to come: "But of that Day and Hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father." By Father in this connection is meant God -- exalted be His glory. He, verily, is the True Educator, and the Spiritual Teacher.

~ Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 142

 

[Supreme]

Instead of calling my post "silly", just say I omitted the word "surviving".
The surviving canonical Gospels were written in the 4th century.
My post was a mere comparison with "surviving" Apocryphal Gospels.

Excuse me, but the notion that your post was presenting- ie the Gospels were written in the 4th century- was silly, even borderline ridiculous. No Biblical scholar would accept such a claim. The oldest fragments we have are from the 4th century, true, but there is a very distinct difference between something being written then and our oldest records dating back then.

 

[Mumin]

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