Question regarding Ephesians 3:10

[sjhoag]

so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. -Eph 3:10

A visiting pastor at my church spoke on this briefly during his sermon this past Sunday. Personally, I find this verse astounding and intriguing. Now, the pastor stated that these rulers and authorities in heavenly places are the angels. OK. This might get a little crazy, but I think a lot and I try to put everything I experience into perspective. Hear me out. I felt led to do some research about this verse and ran across some commentary from a man named A.T. Robertson. He believes that these rulers are fallen angels. This got my mind racing.

So, I saw a commercial about a show on UFOs about a month ago. It was interesting because they were talking about getting these people from all across the globe together to talk about it. These were stated as being very reputable people that held positions in various important areas. Well, I decided to take a look. Now, I am a Christian and believe the Bible to be my chief authority, so what the Bible says is Truth. So, I was thinking to myself if it would be unbiblical to actually believe in UFOs and extraterrestrials. I have been wrestling with this. And was wondering if it is possible that if these UFO sightings and ET sightings are legit, that it could be fallen angels. What a way to turn people away from the Lord I was thinking. To have these fallen angels come down and encounter humans. And maybe even give them false information to spread. Visions. Like the false prophesies and such.

So, in a nutshell, this verse made me think about that. And that there are other rulers and authorities out there that may not be good. And that this verse states that the Lord plans on using us weak humans to glorify Him. Showing His great power and grace to Stan and to those that fell along with him.

I love Jesus. And I think that everything that we hear about in this world is all interconnected to the Lord's great plan.

Are these thoughts out of line? What are your thoughts on this?

 

[wonderwaleye]

so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. -Eph 3:10

A visiting pastor at my church spoke on this briefly during his sermon this past Sunday. Personally, I find this verse astounding and intriguing. Now, the pastor stated that these rulers and authorities in heavenly places are the angels. OK. This might get a little crazy, but I think a lot and I try to put everything .

JUST WHERE DID THE PASTOR GET THIS INFORMATION?



I experience into perspective. Hear me out. I felt led to do some research about this verse and ran across some commentary from a man named A.T. Robertson. He believes that these rulers are fallen angels.

JUST WHERE DID HE GET HIS INFORMATION?



This got my mind racing.

So, I saw a commercial about a show on UFOs about a month ago. It was interesting because they were talking about getting these people from all across the globe together to talk about it. These were stated as being very reputable people that held positions in various important areas. Well, I decided to take a look. Now, I am a Christian and believe the Bible to be my chief authority, so what the Bible says is Truth. So, I was thinking to myself if it would be unbiblical to actually believe in UFOs and extraterrestrials. I have been wrestling with this. And was wondering if it is possible that if these UFO sightings and ET sightings are legit, that it could be fallen angels. What a way to turn people away from the Lord I was thinking. To have these fallen angels come down and encounter humans. And maybe even give them false information to spread. Visions. Like the false prophesies and such.

So, in a nutshell, this verse made me think about that. And that there are other rulers and authorities out there that may not be good. And that this verse states that the Lord plans on using us weak humans to glorify Him. Showing His great power and grace to Stan and to those that fell along with him.

I love Jesus. And I think that everything that we hear about in this world is all interconnected to the Lord's great plan.

Are these thoughts out of line? What are your thoughts on this?

We are not to add or take away from GOD'S WORD.


GOD knew there would be all kinds of thoughts so HE addressed this in HIS WORD:


Sirach
Chapter 3:


21 What is committed to you, attend to; for what is hidden is not your concern.

22 With what is too much for you meddle not, when shown things beyond human understanding.

23 Their own opinion has misled many, and false reasoning unbalanced their judgment.

steven

 

[Johnnz]

The reference in Ephesians refers to the realm of Satan and whoever is part of his dominion. Jesus has defeated all of them.

UFO's. The jury is out on that one. We do live here within a surrounding spiritual reality, but just what people have seen and what that was is not known conclusively.

John
NZ

 

[sjhoag]

Thank you both for your input.

Those verses in Sirach helped me immensely. My bible does not contain the book of Sirach. Why do some bibles contain those added books (Apocrypha) and others do not. Does it have to do with Catholicism?

 

[Johnnz]

The people who composed our current Protestant Bible did not accept that Apocryphal books met the historical and doctrinal standards that the books that were included did. The Apocryphal books do contain good information about what some did believe at the time they were written and therefore they can be useful in supplementing teaching based soley on the biblical books. But most Protestants do not accept them as being inspired.

John
NZ

 

[wonderwaleye]

Thank you both for your input.

Those verses in Sirach helped me immensely. My bible does not contain the book of Sirach. Why do some bibles contain those added books (Apocrypha) and others do not. Does it have to do with Catholicism?

Apocrypha

These Books are not stores but very important instruction for CHRISTIAN living:

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Isaiah[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Chapter 34:[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]16 Look in the book of the LORD and read: No one of these shall be lacking, For the mouth of the LORD has ordered it, and his spirit shall gather them there. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]These books are part of the sacred literature forming a historical length between the Old and New Testaments. The Apocrypha is a must for the library of anyone, and everyone, seriously seeking to learn as much as possible about God's Word.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]When Martin Luther left the Catholic Church and started the Protestant Church he placed the Apocrypha in an appendix to the Old Testament in his German Bible [/FONT]​

Perhaps one of the best kept secrets of the modern Protestant Church is that the Bible used by that body is not the original KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE. That translation, which included the Apocrypha was completed in 1611. The Bibles published where for the use of the clergy and the Church members until late in the 19th Century.


Many King James versions still do contain these BOOKS.

Here at CF folks have many problems that are included in these Books. They need to know they are available for use in all of their families lives. Children really need to be taught these instructions.​

Read from the books of theApocrypha as soon as possible. They will address the problems you now face.



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]S[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]tart reading:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]SIRACH, WISDOM, PROVERBS, ECCLESIASTES[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]These BOOKS can make a real difference in your life.[/FONT]


You can read and print out this online at:


http://www.riseisrael.com/Revision1Apocrypha.pdf


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]You can buy this at:[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Amazon.com: Used and New: Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version With The Apocrypha And The Deuterocanonical Books[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Cost [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]$10.88[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]+ $3.99shipping[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]steven[/FONT]

 

[wonderwaleye]

The people who composed our current Protestant Bible did not accept that Apocryphal books met the historical and doctrinal standards that the books that were included did.

( Please explain why. )

The Apocryphal books do contain good information about what some did believe at the time they were written.


( Has faith changed or did they put BAD stuff in the early BIBLES? )


( How come Martin Luther the one that started the Protestant Church INCLUDE these BOOKS yet those that came latter broke from the faith of the REAL Protestant Church and removed them? )


( Could it be so that the lambs would have a different spot on them so that they would know to stick together? ) ( GOD'S WORD does speak of this. )



and therefore they can be useful in supplementing teaching based soley on the biblical books. But most Protestants do not accept them as being inspired.

( WHY? )

John
NZ

steven

 

[Johnnz]

Look at this link. Reasons why the Apocrypha does not belong in the Bible | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Norman Giesler is a well respected evangelical protestant scholar. You may not agree with him, but his scholarship will be extensive.

John
NZ

 

[wonderwaleye]

Look at this link. Reasons why the Apocrypha does not belong in the Bible | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Norman Giesler is a well respected ( is someone judging here? ) evangelical protestant scholar. You may not agree with him, but his scholarship will be extensive.


( Could his scholarship be better, same, or worse than the following? :


1 John
Chapter 2



20 But you have the anointing that comes from the holy one, and you all have knowledge.

21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth.

26 I write you these things about those who would deceive you.



27 As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, so that you do not need anyone to teach you. But his anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not false; just as it taught you, remain in him.


John
Chapter 16


12 "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.

13 But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. 14 He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

15 Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you. )

( Is he ANOINTED by GOD with HIS HOLY SPIRIT? )

John
NZ

steven

 

[wayfaring man]

Hi sj ,

The version I use ( KJV ) states -

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, <-----> Ephesians 3:10

And considering the essence of what is written in the verses leading up to this one , it appears that what they and verse 10 is saying is - God has graciously revealed unto Paul , for the Gentiles sake - The mystery of Christ , how that now ( through Jesus ) all people of all races may enter into Divine Fellowship ( vs. 10 ) and thereby know the manifold wisdom of God [ even ] unto [ His ] heavenly places and the principalities and powers [ therein / thereof ] .

Or in other words , Paul is saying God through Christ , is graciously intent on sharing with us how His Glorious Wisdom works / is working , not just here in the terrestrial , but right on up to the heavenly throne .

Which fits with the following verse from Jesus' prayer in John 17 -

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou loved me before the foundation of the world. <-----> John 17:24

And Christ being the head of all heavenly principalities and powers -

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: <-----> Colossians 2:10

Not that we can't / or won't be used by God to share something of value with angels / celestial beings .

Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? <-----> 1st Corinthians 6:3

And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. <-----> Luke 16:8

But it would be foolish to start envisioning ourselves as somehow great / greater than...

And he [ Jesus ] came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way?
But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all. <-----> Mark 9:33-35

At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. <-----> Matthew 18:1-4

It's hard to glorify and give thanks to the Truly Great One if we're wrapped up in calculating our own [ perceived / presumed ] claim to greatness .

**************************************************************************************

Regarding UFO's - I have no sense of certainty towards their nature or being.

But understand , it is the inherent nature of someone / something that determines it's role / place / identity , not whatever names or claims or alleged fame is touted thereabout .

And have been instructed to dwell mainly upon what has been made clear - for those are the gifts we've been given in order to be helpful / fruitful .

May The Lord Be Magnified !

wm

 

[ChildOfGod97]

so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. -Eph 3:10


Are these thoughts out of line? What are your thoughts on this?

No, there are no literal "aliens from outerspace". There is a good metaphor for that, as there are anomalies, children of God, "Sons of Heaven". And there are literally good and bad "sons of Heaven", or as you say, "Fallen" or "not fallen".

In Daniel, you see some spiritual warfare being spoken of... one angel said he had to delay his answer to Daniel, because of "the Prince of Persia".

God stated that every nation has an angel. But, not for Israel, whom God himself leads.


One might consider if there is a head, the "prince of this world", the Devil... and there are angels over each nation (and look at how many nations have not turned to God, and how imperfect that is)... then one could consider, as well, there very well may be many angels under these angels.


God stated that all powers will be subjected to God through Christ.

Now, it can be seen as "black and white", but is it? Consider how governments operate. Say a certain drug dealer is not arrested by one agency, because another agency is actually using them in place. Or, while one decision by a government may seem good and wise for a certain minority of the population, it might cause conflict with other portions of the population.

Subjecting all of the Heavenly powers to Christ means a transformation of how the world is run, from being run by the concepts of earth and the perspective of earth and what earth requires... to the Kingdom of God.


A good "for instance", is in Job. Job blamed God for his problems. And Job pointed out he did nothing wrong. Only later would Job have seen the fuller scope of the problem. That is, while God did allow Job to be tested, it was Satan behind that.

This is kind of like how people can ultimately blame a President for any problem, because they are President. But, in reality, many problems might be traced to people under the President. Yet, the President "should have" been corrective of that person under them.


In God's case, He has a good reason to allow such things.


Any sort of delusion might be brought onto men, including the concept of "ET's". Generally these delusions will be essentially mocking man's own conceit, even by these angels behind these delusions. Nobody in the Heavenlies is actually friends with such deceived people. They are trapped and operating as pawns.


God stated He created the Heavens and the earth. He went into deep description of this, though much is left out. God is also One. But, if this is the first time, or if there are other heavens and earth, this is not stated. However, what is stated is that the Heavens we see and experience and the earth we see and experience are connected and related to that singular beginning. Otherwise, God would have stated that He created multiple earths under a singular Heaven.

That is hard to understand, but should not be.

It is also conjectural, and not entirely necessary to comprehend. What if there are endless earths and Heavens, for God is One. Never changing.

The only reason to ever even consider this is if one is awestruck at the improbability of their own situation. There is no reason to think in such a way.

 

[sjhoag]

Thank you very much for your your time in dealing with my concerns. The answers were actually more than what I was expecting and very edifying.

 

[ChildOfGod97]

Thank you very much for your your time in dealing with my concerns. The answers were actually more than what I was expecting and very edifying.

Oh my goodness, no, thank you.

It is rare to find someone who has an open mind, but is also willing to do research, consider facts, and honestly try and pull together opinions.

I have to say, in some cases, if I were in the government, I could see cases where they could come to the conclusion that there are "aliens among us".

God works in mysterious ways.

Believing in something pseudo-scientific can actually be easier for them to understand then believing in God, even though many may claim to be Christian. (And may be, but that is a claim which has requirements to it.) Further, nobody wants to see themselves as pitted against God and the Kingdom of Heaven. They want to see themselves as pitted against an external threat that means harm.

But they also do not keep their reasoning faculties when they think this way. After all, if an alien species were able to reach this planet, why on earth would anyone think they could outwit such creatures, or in any way second guess them? Or that their own conclusions would not be horribly transparent and predictable?


And, of course, just as they do: God is more then willing to allow people in error to actually become subject to His power. For instance, one king of Israel opposed God's will, so God allowed them to be deceived by evil spirits.

These sorts of delusions are disinformation. They protect things. And, they help control things. Ultimately, God is in control of everything, and anything which is allowed which is evil is allowed ultimately for a very good reason. In the end.