Question regarding divorce

[BigNorsk]

I'm not surprised that people misunderstand my post. My post is written to the wife because she is the person here.

I am in no way saying the husband is perfect or is not doing wrong things. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure he is messing up. If he was here I would like to figuratively take a 2x4 upside his head to try and get him to straighten up. But he isn't here, and being all nice a fuzzy and telling her that it must be all him (after all that's what she is saying isn't it) is just a way to encourage her to herself do improper behavior such as divorce him.

Many times people make a decision, and then and only then, go out present one side and use the affirmations they get as "proof" that they are correct.

This couple has a messed up relationship. There is almost certainly mistakes by both partners as individuals and as a couple. It is difficult to get a really good relationship without both people working at it, but it is almost certainly possible for either one to greatly improve the relationship, and more often than not, the other will also start to respond to positive things in the relationship.

The solution to mistakes is not to make more mistakes which is what divorce would be.

She should quit making mistakes in her role as wife. I didn't say she doesn't have reasons for doing what she is doing, but what she is doing is warping the relationship further and further away from what it should be.

I would suggest that she simply stop trying to fulfill his role or force him to fulfill his role. Throw it right in his lap and basically say (without necessarily saying it) that if there is going to be a husband and father in the house, it is going to be him. Then let him do it. He will make mistakes, stumble, fumble and so on, but, he will get better as he practices. Right now it is not like he is the husband, it is more like he is a kid playing games and his mother is telling him to stop and come help. A key is to then be thankful for whatever he does. Don't be like the kid that the parents take to the amusement park spend big bucks and all day having fun and at the end instead of thanking the parents for a great time, throws a fit because they leave before the park locks up at 3 a.m. Be thankful and appreciative of anything he does if you want him to come out and be a husband instead of retreating back to the safe place he has constructed.

Lastly my suggestion to join him. They need to spend time together. Her making demands that he do something is according to her not working. I would be willing to bet there aren't armed guards keeping her from him. So if the desire is to spend time together, spend time together. If the desire is to have something's undivided attention for long periods of time, get a dog. See, there's ways to work around these things. But walking away from him and then saying, come boy, come isn't working and isn't going to work. And it very likely won't work with the next guy either.

Marv

 

[Randombitsofstring]

First of all, based on what you have said, I would have to say that yes, your reasons basically sound selfish.

You say that you have tried to involve him in doing family things together. I would have to say that that sounds like you have tried to get him to do the things that you want to do, that it is you making the choice of what is and is not family activities.

Why don't you join him in what he considers to be the activities that he wants to do? Should I guess, because you don't enjoy them or aren't good at them.

Should we now guess why he doesn't join you in your activities? Could it be that he doesn't enjoy them or he isn't good at them?

See where I am going? I think you have set yourself up as the head of the household and in charge of deciding what you as a family should do. And, in no real surprise at all, he didn't jump onboard with you and so you have decided that that means he doesn't care and so on. Many men are really really sensitive to a dominating wife and honestly they will resist doing things, even things that they would otherwise do, in a power struggle against being told what to do.

The biblical wisdom to win over a husband by not saying a word is one of the great wisdoms in the bible and one of the absolutely most difficult things for women to do. You have chosen another route by telling him what he should be doing, and now you are experiencing the effects on your marriage.

I can hardly believe the solution to fixing the results of your nonbiblical behavior is by doing more unbiblical behavior and divorcing him. That won't fix anything, it's just a continuation of what's gotten you where you are today.

Why not, instead of condemning him, go and join him in whatever he is doing? You might just find that he isn't such a bad husband if you let him be a husband.

Marv

How is it selfish of me to want to spend time with my husband? How is it selfish to want for him to sit down to a family meal and talk? How is it selfish to want to have a sex life with my hubby? I’m embarrassed to admit it, but we have not had sex in nearly 8 months.

All the “family” things I have asked him to join in on has been thing that he once enjoyed in the past. In the first 5 or 6 years of our marriage he wanted to go out and do things like bike riding and walks and even simply playing a card game. None of these things I think are all that strenuous and were things that he use to enjoy.

Now when he comes home from work instead of eating a meal at the table with his wife and kids he takes a plate and goes into the den and plays computer games till 1 or 2 a.m. Oh yes, I can go in and sit with him and talk to the back of his head but he hardly ever answers and questions and doesn’t really respond to what I’m saying. And I have asked him to teach me how to play the games he likes—right now it’s Everquest and World of War Craft—but instead of showing me how he hands me a players manual that is nearly 300+ pages. He doesn’t like for the kids to play with him since they “talk too much.”

Last year our daughter had a part in the school play. She practiced her lines very hard for weeks and was so proud that she was going to be in the play. Well the night of the play his “guild” had a raid planed (these games happen in real time so it’s not like he can just turn them off) and he refused to go see his daughter in her play so that he could stay home and play his game because he didn’t want to let his guild members down! Well what about not letting his family down? How is it selfish of me to want for him to be a part of his children’s life?

I don’t know if he is or isn’t depressed. My mom went through long periods of depression—and he does not seem depressed. But then again I do know that depression can take many forms and no two cases are similar. But it’s been nearly 6, going on 7 years and he refuses to see that he may have a problem. He refuses to talk to a doctor, he says he is happy the way things are and doesn’t want to change things. He won’t go to a counselor at all and dislikes it very much when I have gone on my own. I’m quite at my wits end right now. I’m sick of living with a husband who doesn’t want to be a part of our family’s life.

You are accusing me of being head of the household—well if I am then it’s because I have no choice. I don’t want to do all of this on my own, but he leaves me no choice. Bills have to be paid, the house and cars have to be taken care of and day to day decisions have to be made and he wont take a hand. He spends his money like water on all sorts of gadgets and things we don’t need, there for I have to work to make sure the bills get paid. If something breaks or needs fixing I have to fix it myself or call someone who can—even simple things that he once did without complaining. Decisions about our future or the future of our children’s I have to make—when I ask him for his input he just shrugs and tells me to do what I think is best. This is not what our lives have always been like—we use to work together—but for years now he has just dropped out of our lives and I have no idea how to get him back.

You say I should just “win him over without saying a word” well for the last few years I have hardly said a word (since doing so has only lead to fighting) and nothing has come of it. So what do you suggest I do? Live quietly and miserably like a stranger with a man who once shared my life? Would you do the same if it was your wife who refused to be a part of your life, refuse to even sit down at the diner table and eat diner with you? Would you be so tolerant of a wife who spent almost all of her time with total strangers on-line, a wife who would tells you that sex isn’t important and that she thinks that sex should not be a part of your life anymore? Would you just sit quietly by and say nothing?

 

[Southern Cross]

I stand by my advice. Throw the computer out the window. It's an addiction that can be just as bad as having an affair. Sometimes you have to do something totally outlandish to spark change.

 

[Randombitsofstring]

Your marriage sounds exactly like mine. Many of the circumstances you are describing match what my wife says about me. But... there are two sides to every story. What does your husband feel is lacking in your marriage? What specifically is he unsatisfied with about you? Have there been one or more emotional or physical affairs on either side? Sometimes those things will help give us a bearing on where your relationship stands and make suggestions. I agree with the others though, counseling is definitely in order.

Unless you are willing to go against scripture, divorce is not an option. Emotional and sexual abandonment is not "abuse" unless you subscribe to a very lenient definition of abuse where anything goes. It is either an intentional effort to simply deny you of one of the most important responsibilities a husband can fulfill, or it's a symptom of greater issues (depression, addiction to gaming, etc.) that need to be worked through.

I know when I felt like this towards my wife, I was burned out. I was sick and tired of being required to move mountains at work, tired of the responsibility of providing for a family of six with no help or encouragement, tired of NEVER having any downtime to do things that I enjoyed. So I changed my profession to something I thoroughly enjoy, learned how to do without my wife being proud of me or offering words of encouragement, and I take time for myself occasionally. And what did I learn? Things are definitely better, but I learned my wife has her own issues to work through that have nothing to do with my behavior. While I definitely have grounds for divorce, it has not come to that yet.

Don't give up on your marriage. Don't let another guy occupy even one inch of your heart. Stay with your husband and children and work through this. I want the same things you want. But looking outside of your marriage is not the answer.

I'd also like you to think about throwing the darn computer out the window .

I don’t know what my husband thinks is missing in our marriage because he won’t talk about our marriage. According to him as long as I don’t “bother” him, then things are fine.

I don’t expect him to take care of and provide for our family by himself—I don’t mind working—but it does annoy me when he spend a 70% of his paycheck on things like new TVs and DVD players and Flat Screen monitors for the computer when we already have those thing—but he just wants newer, and there for in his opinion—better ones.

As for affairs—there has been no other physical affairs on either side that I know of. As for emotional—I don’t think I have been all emotionally close to any other man—and as of now I don’t even consider myself all that emotionally close to my husband anymore. The only other “man” in my heart right now is our son.

Throwing the computer out right now will solve nothing—he will just buy a new one. And it would cause another fight.

I don’t want to walk away because I know that if I do, I won’t be coming back. I don’t want for things to get to that point—but I’m getting to where I feel myself not caring anymore.

 

[BigNorsk]

I am not saying he is doing things correctly. And I can certainly understand your frustration. It still seems to me that you are talking of selfish reasons for thinking to divorce him, you aren't happy and you want things better. That is basically selfishness. Are your reasons not mostly concerned with yourself? I know you can argue the children's interest point. But they aren't married to him, you are, and your post wasn't primarily a how do I get him to be a father for the children, it was a complaint that he isn't being a husband to you.

But back to what you can do. He is basically an addict to destructive behavior, computer games can be a fun entertainment, but they aren't a life. He's probably an adrenalin junky. He has constructed a life where the games are his life, and like it or not, you have helped him. For instance you say things must be done, like paying bills and fixing things. Why is that? I know it is really really hard to do, but why not try stopping doing them? If the electricity is shut off he certainly won't play computer games, same for the internet service. I would mention that you talked to some kooky Christians and you are convicted that you have been sinful and it isn't your place to pay the bills and then when he doesn't do anything (and realize he probably won't), time it so the first thing that cuts off is the internet. (See, this can actually be kind of fun) That will get his attention, I guarantee it. If you can time the electricity right, he will hopefully come home to a dark house with a note saying something like "electicity shut off, took kids to Holiday Inn, hope you can join us. Love Huggums."

When (not if) he complains don't fight about it, just tell him you are convicted that it would be wrong for you to pay the bills, that he is the head of the household and that comes with the territory. If he tries the old "I'm the head huh, well I put you in charge of the bills." Tell him that would be like expecting you to use a urinal, women just aren't made to do that. Don't fight, don't get mad. Just leave it to him and don't do it.

I know doing such things will make it uncomfortable for you, potentially affect your credit rating (divorces do that sort of thing too) and so on, but he is taking advantage of you and you are letting him. He is relying on the fact that you are a responsible person. And so he relies on you to do things that he should. You agree that you are the head of the household but we disagree that you must be the head because he refuses, it would be different if he was in the hospital in a coma, but he's not. You can refuse to be the head also, you have the added benefit that it's not your place to be the head.

Here's what I mean by quit being the head of the household. Stop doing all those things. Let him pay the bills, get the things fixed and so on. And if they don't get done, when he gets mad and asks just say "That's your responsibility honey." You don't need to pester him to do it or anything and it's sure tough because it goes against your nature. If someone calls about a bill, pass the person on to your husband and so on.

Now I can't tell this one, you have to make the call, but if the income from you job is just basically going to support his addiction. I think you should quit. It really doesn't make sense to work to give him money to waste destroying his (and your) life. Maybe he doesn't actually spend that much on his play things, but if he does they certainly aren't necessities and they are actually destroying your family so I'm not sure why you would work to pay for things to destroy your family? I mean, does that make sense? If it does, explain it to me. If you really don't want to quit, start a college fund for the kids and deposit your paycheck there, of course this will be after you ask him, "Do you think we should be saving money for the kids education? (Huh, oh sure dear)"

Going back to him being the head of the family, let him decide whether to get groceries or that new toy. If he decides the new toy. When he comes home he get some beans and rice for supper. (He probably won't realize that's the decision he is making at the time, but you are helping him face reality.) A steady diet of beans and rice while pretty healthy, gets a bit boring. When he complains simply say, "You decided to get the new gadget and eat the beans and rice, I am honoring your decision even though I don't think it was a good one." If he says let's order pizza or something then say, "Are you sure? I didn't think there was enough money for groceries, am I wrong? Did you get a raise?"

When he complains there's more bills than money, just say, "It's hard to budget isn't it?"

Now if you aren't working there will be time for you to do some volunteer activities, how about planning a picnic or softball game for the people at his work? He'll show up for that family activity, trust me.

There, get the idea. Make him the head of the household. Right now he is using (abusing really) you, and you are actually letting him. Stop the abuse by making him the head. Things will not be the way you want them to be right away, but you are talking divorce so things are already pretty bad. The thing to remember is the uncomfortable things with him as the head are going to be temporary, they will pass.

Now as for sex, that is one area where he is decidedly not the head. You do not have authority over your body and he doesn't have authority over his. Send the kids away for the night, and if he won't put the controller down, well just too bad. Don't say you want sex and wait for him, don't wait for him to initiate it, just go and take it. You can schedule it, like tell him he's got to be up early tomorrow or you're going to need him for awhile at 9 on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays, I don't care, it doesn't make much difference. Don't get trapped into the idea that that isn't romantic or if he doesn't really want to then you don't want to either. Making up a bunch of artificial rules is what got you in this mess, throw them out, they aren't working. We aren't playing games here, you are trying to save your lives. It might be easier at first if you don't try to go head to head with WarCraft. Send the kids out and get him before he makes it to the computer.

So now, are you getting the idea? Are little bells going off on how to do things. You know him and yourself better than I do so I'm sure you can come up with better ways to personalize it a bit. But hold onto this truth.

He is the head of the house and you won't be no matter how much he demands it. You are in control of his body and you won't take a no to sex, unless he is bleading and seriously at that, life threatening really, and the paramedic can't get the bandage on with you on top and moving like that. Then and only that one time, you can give him a pass on the sex.

I hope you are feeling better, it's so frustrating to think your life is ruined and there's nothing you can do. But there are things you can do, and this going to be a chapter in your life that you shouldn't have to repeat once he is resusitated.

Marv

 

[TheDag]

Marv maybe you can explain why it is the head of the households job to pay the bills. It is really confusing why it MUST be the job of the head of the household. I mean there are plenty of women who live on their own and manage to pay the bills yet when they get married they suddenly no longer have the ability to pay the bills? C'mon be honest here there is no justification for saying the head of the household must pay the bills. Sex on demand is another thing not supported by the bible. The bible does support not witholding sex for extended periods of time. If it did mean sex on demand then you need to remember guys are not physically able to follow that if a woman kept demanding sex non stop for even a short period of time.

 

[AutumnDreamer]

He is the head of the house and you won't be no matter how much he demands it. You are in control of his body and you won't take a no to sex, unless he is bleading and seriously at that, life threatening really, and the paramedic can't get the bandage on with you on top and moving like that. Then and only that one time, you can give him a pass on the sex.

Since when do we give advice to rape our spouses? That is what you are saying, to have sex with him no matter what he says. If this were a man and you gave the same advice, he would use his strength to overpower his wife and rape her. If your husband doesn't want to have sex, no amount of pleading or forcing will help. I have been there, My husband went through a time where he physically couldn't but e wouldn't tell me. It had to do with him being borderline diabetic, but until he finally told me I felt like he didn't want me, I felt ugly and miserable. I know what you are going through. The best way to change your husband is through prayer. But you have to be willing to give him to God, which means that you have to get to a place where you do not continually let it get to you. Everytime you start to feel unwanted and unloved, start praying. Pray out loud, let him know you are praying for him. Tell him you love him over and over. 1 Peter says the way to reach an unsaved spouse is through showing him the love of Christ. This is harder then showing a friend or a family member, b/c being your spouse you expect your love to be returned. Right now it isn't. Think about how God feels when we are living for Him. He loves us, even though we don't love Him back. He waits for us, He is always there for when we are ready to come to Him, but while He waits He lets us make our own choices. You need to do this with your husband. Pray for him and continue to love him, wait for him but let him make his own choices, and trust in God that He will honor you for doing what the scriptures say.

 

[BigNorsk]

Marv maybe you can explain why it is the head of the households job to pay the bills. It is really confusing why it MUST be the job of the head of the household. I mean there are plenty of women who live on their own and manage to pay the bills yet when they get married they suddenly no longer have the ability to pay the bills? C'mon be honest here there is no justification for saying the head of the household must pay the bills. Sex on demand is another thing not supported by the bible. The bible does support not witholding sex for extended periods of time. If it did mean sex on demand then you need to remember guys are not physically able to follow that if a woman kept demanding sex non stop for even a short period of time.

It is not so much the actual physical paying of the bill, it is the fact that he has withdrawn from it and doesn't deal with it. He is not being the head of the house. She isn't receiving direction from him, and just a you take care of it isn't real direction either. It is true that in many households the wife pays bills, maybe even in the majority. But the husband needs to be involved and hers is not. Often when there is a sickness, one needs to be more strict than otherwise. If he would interact and provide headship she could certainly pay the bills, but under the circumstances doing so would only allow him to not be the head and turn back to a disconnected life; therefore, she cannot out of love for him continue to enable him to destroy their lives. Paying the bills is like pouring drinks for an alcoholic in this situation.

I'm not some legalist claiming women can't write out a check.

Marv

 

[BigNorsk]

As for the sex and the idea that spouses rape each other. I can find no support for either the idea that whatever the two of you desire is okay, nor for the idea of spouses raping each other from the Bible.

First of all, my basis for the idea that the Bible does not teach whatever the two of you desire, but rather teaches whatever either of you desires.

1 Corinthians 7:1-6 NET.
(1) Now with regard to the issues you wrote about: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman."
(2) But because of immoralities, each man should have relations with his own wife and each woman with her own husband.
(3) A husband should give to his wife her sexual rights, and likewise a wife to her husband.
(4) It is not the wife who has the rights to her own body, but the husband. In the same way, it is not the husband who has the rights to his own body, but the wife.
(5) Do not deprive each other, except by mutual agreement for a specified time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then resume your relationship, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
(6) I say this as a concession, not as a command.

Notice for this discussion, especially verse 4. Now I ask you, who biblically of course, has the control of her husband's body? Did you answer the wife?

Now what does this do to the very concept of rape between spouses? Pretty well destroys it. It is the very reason why under common law and in most jurisdictions it was absolutely impossible for a spouse to be considered guilty of rape until very recent times.

Recently, a few holes in the doctrine have been created by people who were willing to do very horrible things to hurt their spouses. The first conviction of a spouse for rape that I am aware of was where a husband actually hired others to rape his wife, since he was involved in the commission of the rape, he was guilty of it.

But generally, you cannot convict a spouse of rape because by the contracting of marriage the spouse is given conjugal rights, which is a very biblical position. It is not that the sex is not consented to, it is that the sex doesn't need to be consented to again and again, it has already been consented to. (It would be helpful sometimes if English had an aorist tense verb like Greek to show something is done once and its done)

Now I know it is difficult for people to read what I wrote to this particular woman without taking the terrible things that have happened to them or others and read them into what I wrote. I don't know how to get around that.

I did not tell her to hurt him or threaten to hurt him, I told her to take what is rightfully hers and not to take no, for she and not he is the head of his body. It is not working to leave sex for the end of the day after everything is done and the children are asleep so action needs to be taken to move it up in priority and timing.

This man is fully capable of responding to people. He goes to work and seems to be a good employee. Wonder what would happen if his boss would accept him sitting and playing games all day at the computer? I'm thinking his boss wouldn't accept that. Based on the fact that the husband doesn't do it either, I'm thinking that he doen't think the boss would accept it either. And how about those online "buddies" that won't take no for an answer. Seems he responds to them. However, his family, takes no for an answer in everything. If he says no, they might ask a bit for him, but ultimately they are accepting that he can withdraw and spend his time doing nothing. This is not making him the head of the household it is making him a nothing, and that's not biblical. So they need to quite enabling his sick behavior, and I am not advocating doing so by disobeying God, but rather buy honoring God by again making the husband the head and not "fixing" it when he doesn't immediately respond.

In the area of sex, he is not the head of his body, so there is no need to pretend he is, it would be counterproductive to insert popular philosophical positions for biblical principals. If his wife has to set up a "work schedule" for sex for now, so be it. He has no right to refuse, he has already given his consent, though like I say, if there are REAL extenuating circumstances, I am sure Randombitsofstring will be understanding, and I would not have it otherwise.

Marv

 

[BigNorsk]

I guess I should finish this up with one other thing.

Randombitsofstring,

If you do indeed make him the head of the household and if you do insist on your conjugal rights, and if he absolutely does refuse. Not if he struggles with those things or doesn't get those things perfectly, but if he just flat out refuses. Then I have to say that you have every biblical right to divorce him because he will have effectively broken your convenant relationship. It is not so much actually that you divorce him but that in that case you legally recognize that he has really divorced you.

I ask you to seriously try what I have suggested, due to the fact that he can function with others, I believe it is very possible for you and he to have a very good marriage, just that you are both in a rut, a very nonproductive rut.

If you really try this and he still doesn't respond, though I think he will, then any question I would have that he is a nonbeliever who is not consenting to remain married to you would be answered in my mind.

If you cannot find the strength to try, well even then, I do not condemn you.

And realize that having him as head will indeed have a cost to you, you won't be the head anymore and it's very likely that you have gotten very comfortable with that, even while you despise his withdrawal. So please understand that a good marriage isn't going to necessarily feel perfect to you due to the habits that have become ingrained.

I think your husband, and your marriage are savable. Most boys are susceptible to addictions such as your husband is experiencing but most wake up one day and give them up. He hasn't yet, but the great likelihood is that even if you don't try what I suggest, he will one day. You have to decide whether or not to act or wait or leave, and none of those things is perfect because they come so far down the road your marriage has gone.

Only the best wishes,
Marv

 

[AutumnDreamer]

As for the sex and the idea that spouses rape each other. I can find no support for either the idea that whatever the two of you desire is okay, nor for the idea of spouses raping each other from the Bible.

First of all, my basis for the idea that the Bible does not teach whatever the two of you desire, but rather teaches whatever either of you desires.

1 Corinthians 7:1-6 NET.
(1) Now with regard to the issues you wrote about: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman."
(2) But because of immoralities, each man should have relations with his own wife and each woman with her own husband.
(3) A husband should give to his wife her sexual rights, and likewise a wife to her husband.
(4) It is not the wife who has the rights to her own body, but the husband. In the same way, it is not the husband who has the rights to his own body, but the wife.
(5) Do not deprive each other, except by mutual agreement for a specified time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then resume your relationship, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
(6) I say this as a concession, not as a command.

Notice for this discussion, especially verse 4. Now I ask you, who biblically of course, has the control of her husband's body? Did you answer the wife?

Now what does this do to the very concept of rape between spouses? Pretty well destroys it. It is the very reason why under common law and in most jurisdictions it was absolutely impossible for a spouse to be considered guilty of rape until very recent times.

Recently, a few holes in the doctrine have been created by people who were willing to do very horrible things to hurt their spouses. The first conviction of a spouse for rape that I am aware of was where a husband actually hired others to rape his wife, since he was involved in the commission of the rape, he was guilty of it.

But generally, you cannot convict a spouse of rape because by the contracting of marriage the spouse is given conjugal rights, which is a very biblical position. It is not that the sex is not consented to, it is that the sex doesn't need to be consented to again and again, it has already been consented to. (It would be helpful sometimes if English had an aorist tense verb like Greek to show something is done once and its done)

Now I know it is difficult for people to read what I wrote to this particular woman without taking the terrible things that have happened to them or others and read them into what I wrote. I don't know how to get around that.

I did not tell her to hurt him or threaten to hurt him, I told her to take what is rightfully hers and not to take no, for she and not he is the head of his body. It is not working to leave sex for the end of the day after everything is done and the children are asleep so action needs to be taken to move it up in priority and timing.

This man is fully capable of responding to people. He goes to work and seems to be a good employee. Wonder what would happen if his boss would accept him sitting and playing games all day at the computer? I'm thinking his boss wouldn't accept that. Based on the fact that the husband doesn't do it either, I'm thinking that he doen't think the boss would accept it either. And how about those online "buddies" that won't take no for an answer. Seems he responds to them. However, his family, takes no for an answer in everything. If he says no, they might ask a bit for him, but ultimately they are accepting that he can withdraw and spend his time doing nothing. This is not making him the head of the household it is making him a nothing, and that's not biblical. So they need to quite enabling his sick behavior, and I am not advocating doing so by disobeying God, but rather buy honoring God by again making the husband the head and not "fixing" it when he doesn't immediately respond.

In the area of sex, he is not the head of his body, so there is no need to pretend he is, it would be counterproductive to insert popular philosophical positions for biblical principals. If his wife has to set up a "work schedule" for sex for now, so be it. He has no right to refuse, he has already given his consent, though like I say, if there are REAL extenuating circumstances, I am sure Randombitsofstring will be understanding, and I would not have it otherwise.

Marv

You are completely taking that out of context! Yes the husbands body does belong to the wife and vice versa, and yes you have no right to deny your spouse sex, however this does NOT give you the right to take what they are not willing to give. That scripture is to encourage a husband and wife to not be selfish by withholding their body from their spouse. It does NOT give a husband or wife the right to force the person to give them sex. I am actually sickened by the words of your post.

 

[TheDag]

It is not so much the actual physical paying of the bill, it is the fact that he has withdrawn from it and doesn't deal with it. He is not being the head of the house. She isn't receiving direction from him, and just a you take care of it isn't real direction either. It is true that in many households the wife pays bills, maybe even in the majority. But the husband needs to be involved and hers is not. Often when there is a sickness, one needs to be more strict than otherwise. If he would interact and provide headship she could certainly pay the bills, but under the circumstances doing so would only allow him to not be the head and turn back to a disconnected life; therefore, she cannot out of love for him continue to enable him to destroy their lives. Paying the bills is like pouring drinks for an alcoholic in this situation.

I'm not some legalist claiming women can't write out a check.

Marv

Ok I understand your position better. I'm not sure I agree but thats ok. On the corinthians passage it does not mean you have the right to sex whenever you want. If it did then i could assure you that if your wife wanted to then she could make you unable to have sex and then claim you are divorcing her! Rather I believe the passage means a continual refusal. It does seem like a continual refusal in this case but sex on demand is not biblical in my opinion.

 

[BigNorsk]

Being in the position of having to demand sex is not biblical. But like I said previously it is difficult for people to read things without reading into it.

It would be better to think assertiveness rather than use the terms like force and rape. She needs to become more assertive in the area of sex.

Her husband made the comment to her that it was wrong to have sex if it wasn't for having children. She now has a verse to show him that that isn't the case. If he doesn't agree that she is in control of his body, let him search the scriptures to refute her. That would be something useful.

Marv

 

[charligirl]

The best way to change your husband is through prayer. But you have to be willing to give him to God, which means that you have to get to a place where you do not continually let it get to you. Everytime you start to feel unwanted and unloved, start praying. Pray out loud, let him know you are praying for him. Tell him you love him over and over...............Pray for him and continue to love him, wait for him but let him make his own choices, and trust in God that He will honor you for doing what the scriptures say.

Yes, yes, yes, great advice. Time and again in my own and in others' marriages I have seen this work. Even rescued from the brink of divorce.