Question about this verse...???

Hi Hannah,

I think the verses in Isaiah speak of a place other than hell - like maybe earth where it's pretty obvious that Satan is prince.

I believe that hell is the Lake of Fire which was prepared for Satan and his fallen angels and demons.

hannahfievel said:

Hello to all at CF,

Okay...here's the verse:

Isa 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

So now..."Exactly where is hell"??? Just curious as to everyone here's thoughts! your sis, hannah

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When I first read this passage I thought " they are referring to Lucifer not hell itself" Here is the passage as written in the King James....


This I believe ( I am no theologian and I don't have my reference bible handy )
is discussing when Lucifer was casted out of Heaven and given rule of the earth.
Separation from God is hell itself... maybe another reference?


Isaiah 14:12-21 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV) Public Domain

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

hannahfievel said:

Hello to all at CF,

Okay...here's the verse:

Isa 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

So now..."Exactly where is hell"??? Just curious as to everyone here's thoughts! your sis, hannah

Click to expand...

The verse doesn't mention hell (the lake of fire).

The devil is not confined to hell until the final judgement.

XianJedi said:

The verse doesn't mention hell (the lake of fire).

The devil is not confined to hell until the final judgement.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Since he is now prince/ruler of this earth, think about what Peter said: "he roams the earth like a lion seeking to devour whom he may". But stronger is he who is in us that is Satan!

Isaiah 14:12 really doesn't have much of anything to do with hell.

Realize that it is a difficult verse to translate so basically all translations paraphrase it. For instance the part that is translated "morning star" is literally "Helel son of Shachar". Does that mean much to you? It doesn't to anyone else either. The KJV translated it "Lucifer" and so the verse seems to be stuck with being more strongly associated with Satan that is probably justifiable.

The NET has a good explanatory study note on that verse.

sn What is the background for the imagery in Isa_14:12-15? This whole section (Isa_14:4-21 (i.e., Isaiah 14:4b-21)) is directed to the king of Babylon, who is clearly depicted as a human ruler. Other kings of the earth address him in Isa_14:9 (i.e., Isaiah 14:9ff.) he is called "the man" in Isa_14:16, and, according to Isa_14:19-20, he possesses a physical body. Nevertheless the language of Isa_14:12-15 has led some to see a dual referent in the taunt song. These verses, which appear to be spoken by other pagan kings to a pagan king (cf. Isa_14:9-11), contain several titles and motifs that resemble those of Canaanite mythology, including references to Helel son of Shachar, the stars of El, the mountain of assembly, the recesses of Zaphon, and the divine title Most High. Apparently these verses allude to a mythological story about a minor god (Helel son of Shachar) who tried to take over Zaphon, the mountain of the gods. His attempted coup failed and he was hurled down to the underworld. The king of Babylon is taunted for having similar unrealized delusions of grandeur. Some Christians have seen an allusion to the fall of Satan here, but this seems contextually unwarranted (see J. Martin, "Isaiah," BKCOT, 1061).

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Hope that helps.

Marv

ContentInHim said:

Exactly. Since he is now prince/ruler of this earth, think about what Peter said: "he roams the earth like a lion seeking to devour whom he may". But stronger is he who is in us that is Satan!

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Opps , I'm sure ContentInHim , meant to write " But stronger is he who is in us than is Satan!"

Based on past posts and this -

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. <-----> 1st John 4:4

wm

hannahfievel said:

Hello to all at CF,

Okay...here's the verse:

Isa 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

So now..."Exactly where is hell"??? Just curious as to everyone here's thoughts! your sis, hannah

Click to expand...

Hi hannah ,

Lucifer , meaning " to shine as the morning star " , is a name given to describe the devil in a place where he shone brightly , the name appears to have been added , as it is not clearly found in the oldest known text . But the meaning is consistent with the text .

Here's another place in Scripture which fits - ( Perhaps the best way to understand a scripture is to find the other places where it is talked about in Scripture .)

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. <-----> Luke 10:17+18

It does appear that Satan fell from heaven already , but has not yet been utterly confined to hell / lake of fire . ( Hell ends up in the lake of fire - Revelation 20:14 )

And so , as others have mentioned , he , the devil is still trying to do " his thing " , in this earthly realm .

The word hell is translated in Scripture from the following Hebrew word :

H7585
&#1513;&#1473;&#1488;&#1500; &#1513;&#1473;&#1488;&#1493;&#1500;
she'o&#770;l she'o&#770;l
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

It basically describes a place of separation from God and The Life He Creates & Sustains through Jesus Christ . Sometimes referred /alluded to as " under the earth " aka " subterranian " ; which implies even further away from heaven , than being merely " on earth " .

If you use a Strong's Concordance ( as I have here ) you can look up the origins of what we now read in The Bible , it's easy to do , and one doesn't need to be familiar already with Hebrew or Greek , ( The two primary languages of original Scripture ) . It helps alot to consider the original languages .

Below is a link where you can download the software for free , ( with donations accepted ) .

http://www.e-sword.net/

Hope this helps , and May The Lord Be Pleased to Bless !

wm