Prosperity Gospel

[Guojing]

And, meanwhile . . . while ones are preaching prosperity and health and others are busy with criticizing them . . . none of them might give us what Jesus says will happen if we leave family and things for Him >

"So Jesus answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's, who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time---houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions---and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.'" (Mark 10:29-31)

Certain prosperity people talk only or mainly about how you will reap twofold or tenfold or a hundredfold for the money you give. But in this scripture in Mark about Jesus > Jesus says if we leave family and property for Him, we will receive "a hundredfold". Not of money. But of "brothers and sisters and mothers and children" . . . and lands and houses.

From this scripture I see something I think Jesus is showing us, about what is *included* in the greatest prosperity > family love and sharing, I would say . . . with "brothers and sisters and mothers and children". And, by the way > if we let go of people and things, for Jesus, as He guides us, then we will grow in Jesus so we can handle more than all we have left behind. And He will have us discovering all He desires to share with us, and what He wants us to do with all the people and things which are trusted to us.

We don't have to own and control people and things which are our prosperity. But God "gives us richly all things to enjoy", we have in 1 Timothy 6:17. The prosperity is in the enjoying, not in the possessing and controlling. We adopt people with our love and prayer for them, trusting them to how God takes care of them. And so we share with God, in His prosperity of having these people and things for Himself.

Biblical prosperity, then, is not isolated just with some individual; but there is sharing as family.

And there is more about this in God's word.

Yes, but as I said, if you want to claim promises of wealth, it will be silly to use the 4 gospels due to passages like what you used.

But you agree that, if you want to claim promises of health, there are plenty of them there correct?

 

[Guojing]

By His stripes, I was healed and still am. That is the confession of my faith. I may die of some illness, but my faith, the faith of my heart, confesses that I am healed.

Instead of adopting this contradictory kind of thinking "By his stripes I was healed, but I died of some illness, but somehow I believe I was still healed", thinking that somehow God is pleased with you for thinking like that

why not adopt what Paul taught us gentiles in the Body of Christ in these 2 passages, Romans 8:18-25 and 2 Corinthians 4:16-18?

Romans 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

2 Corinthians 4:16-18
16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Wouldn't it be more consistent? Treat whatever illness you have as light affliction, they are working in us for something more glorious in eternity, while we wait to receive our fully redeem bodies.

In the meantime, we pray according to what Paul taught us in Philippians 4:6-7
6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

and 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

16 Rejoice evermore.

17 Pray without ceasing.

18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

May God give me the strength never to deny His Word or, more importantly, NEVER deny the stripes He endured to attain that healing for me. Denying the healing is the same thing as denying the stripes

No need to keep repeating like a robot "By your stripes I am healed, I was healed", which Paul never quoted a single time in his epistles. You are instructed by him in 2 Timothy 2:15 to rightly divide the word of truth, not take all of God's word as truth for you.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Instead of adopting this contradictory kind of thinking "By his stripes I was healed, but I died of some illness, but somehow I believe I was still healed", thinking that somehow God is pleased with you for thinking like that

why not adopt what Paul taught us gentiles in the Body of Christ in these 2 passages, Romans 8:18-25 and 2 Corinthians 4:16-18?

Romans 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

2 Corinthians 4:16-18
16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Wouldn't it be more consistent? Treat whatever illness you have as light affliction, they are working in us for something more glorious in eternity, while we wait to receive our fully redeem bodies.

In the meantime, we pray according to what Paul taught us in Philippians 4:6-7
6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

and 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

16 Rejoice evermore.

17 Pray without ceasing.

18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.



No need to keep repeating like a robot "By your stripes I am healed, I was healed", which Paul never quoted a single time in his epistles. You are instructed by him in 2 Timothy 2:15 to rightly divide the word of truth, not take all of God's word as truth for you.

I don't think there is any lack of suffering, pain, sickness, poverty, and death. There is no need to seek or work out a way into more of that. Jesus came to save us in every way we can be saved. EVERYTHING is included in the atonement. We can live in it by faith and thereby glorify and please God, or we can live beneath it. There is revelation involved here. Faith comes by revelation and revelation by a spoken word from Christ. We all need this light. It changes our lives from that of undergoers to overcomes.
"Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven..."
You can be Caleb and Joshua, and resolve we are well able to take the land that has been given you, or you can be like the rest of Isreal and wander for 40 years, never entering in. Stay away from the bad report (also called unbelief, evil report). Go with the good report. Glorfy God. It is not about us. It is about Him.

Num 13:32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.
Num_14:37 Even those men that did bring up the evil report upon the land, died by the plague before the LORD.
I am going to stick with Joshua and Caleb!
Numbers 13:30 KJV
30 And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it.

The choice is clear and solemn:

Hebrews 3:7-19 KJV
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

 

[timothyu]

The Gospel message isn’t that Christ died for your health, wealth, and Wisdom

The whole point is that this prosperity gospel is a human construct. The ONLY gospel Jesus taught was the Gospel of the Kingdom and no other. Prosperity enough.

 

[Guojing]

I don't think there is any lack of suffering, pain, sickness, poverty, and death. There is no need to seek or work out a way into more of that. Jesus came to save us in every way we can be saved. EVERYTHING is included in the atonement.

My simple point, in case you missed it, is this

Paul was sent by the ascended Christ to be your apostle (Romans 11:13)

Listen to him, follow him as he follows the ascended Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1)

Given what Paul taught us in Romans 8:18-25, 2 Corinthians 4:16-18, and the advice he gave to Timothy regarding his stomach problems,

he is certainly not teaching us that "Jesus came to save us in every way we can be saved. EVERYTHING is included in the atonement."

 

[Guojing]

The whole point is that this prosperity gospel is a human construct. The ONLY gospel Jesus taught was the Gospel of the Kingdom and no other. Prosperity enough.

But the gospel of the kingdom includes healing of diseases (Matthew 4:23, Matthew 10:7-8)

So if you believe in that gospel, you have to believe in at least the healing side of the so called "prosperity gospel".

 

[SavedByGrace3]

My simple point, in case you missed it, is this

Paul was sent by the ascended Christ to be your apostle (Romans 11:13)

Listen to him, follow him as he follows the ascended Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1)

Given what Paul taught us in Romans 8:18-25, 2 Corinthians 4:16-18, and the advice he gave to Timothy regarding his stomach problems,

he is certainly not teaching us that "Jesus came to save us in every way we can be saved. EVERYTHING is included in the atonement."

None of this discounts or dismisses the reality that Jesus was bruised to take our sickness and disease. Just as His death and resurrection saves us, we are healed by His physical suffering. We are healed by the atonement. The fact that instances of sickness, suffering, and death can be found in the NT proves that there will be those who endure such things in this day. Jesus died for the sins of the world and is the propitiation of both the saved and unsaved. God desires all men to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of the truth. But that is not universally realized either. Will we discount and dismiss salvation simply because men will not avail themselves of the benefit? Of course not. It's the same with healing. Just because many will not avail themselves of this benefit does not discount it either. Some will not discern the Lord's body, and therefore, they will be sick, weak, and die young. Sometimes we may not know why they do not receive the benefit. But in no case is it because the Lord does not will it for them. They price has been paid. It is finished.

 

[Guojing]

None of this discounts or dismisses the reality that Jesus was bruised to take our sickness and disease.

Just as His death and resurrection saves us, we are healed by His physical suffering.

We are healed by the atonement.

Which scripture from the apostle Paul would you use to reach any of the above 3 points?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Which scripture from the apostle Paul would you use to reach any of the above 3 points?

I am not sure why we limit our scriptural proof to the writings of Paul.
But here are a few that come to mind:

Paul and Communion and the reality of the body and the blood.

1 Corinthians 11:27-31 KJV
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

These verses are directed toward those who take the body of the Lord and do not understand (discern) what they are doing or why they are doing it. Not knowing the message behind the body and bread, they retain the liability to be sick, weak, and even die before their time. It is not new judgment against them. It is the standing judgment against all who are not in faith concerning these facts. This concept mirrors another passage by Paul that speaks of the blood and wine (rather than the bread and body).


The Hebrews believers and letting the words of the Gospel slip away from them.
Hebrews 4:1-3 KJV
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 3:12 KJV
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Hebrews 10:29 KJV
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Ultimately the Hebrew Christians were told not to let the truth of the Gospel "slip" or drift by them.
Hebrews 2:1 KJV
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.



Paul and the Corinthians who were told to keep in memory the Gospel:
Paul also speaks to the Corinthian Christians about not letting the words of the Gospel "slip."

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

These believers are doing something similar to the Corinthian believers. The Hebrew believers are discounting the blood of Jesus (wine) and thereby risk forfeiting their salvation. The Corinthian believers are discounting the body of Jesus (bread) and thereby risk forfeiting their healing and even their physical lives.

We can also see this principle played out in real life in the writings of Paul.

The Corinthian fornicator:

1 Corinthians 5:1-5 KJV
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Here, a believer was fornicating. Paul calls upon them to deliver this man up to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his spirit might be saved on the day of the Lord. We can see the division here. A sin is committed, which, if not dealt with, may result in the man's ultimate damnation. Yet we see his life could be halted before it gets to that. Better that he dies physically (has his body destroyed by satan) than his spirit be damned forever. So, there are two areas of salvation. One is the spiritual life (by the blood/wine), and the other is the physical life (by the body/bread). Happily, we see the man repented, and all this was averted (2 Corin 2).


Paul reveals that the suffering of Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law.

From the book of Galatians:
Galatians 3:10-14 KJV
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

A brief reading in the book of Deuteronomy details some of the curse of the law. The chapters are quite long, but we can narrow it down to one or two verses for brevities sake.

Deuteronomy 28:60 KJV
60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

This details every sickness and plague in and outside the book of the law. It is part of the curse of the law that comes upon all who sin against the law. We are redeemed from this because Jesus was crucified. Healing and health are included in this atonement. Review chapters 27 and 28 for a list of all curses and blessings. We are redeemed from these curses by the suffering of Jesus.

Ephesians 1:3 KJV
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

There are others that just do not come to mind at this moment.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

...he is certainly not teaching us that "Jesus came to save us in every way we can be saved. EVERYTHING is included in the atonement."

Then, on what basis are you receiving from God? If not the gospel and the atonement, then what? Are you suggesting that you now receive from God based on something outside the passion and Lordship of Jesus? What outside agreement or covenant are you basing your salvation, healing, freedom from oppression, answered prayer, or any redemption other than the name of Jesus? There is no other name by which we can be saved from anything. Jesus is Lord of all; He is King of all. All things are His, and by Him, all things consist. On what basis exactly, other than Jesus and His atonement, are you believing and receiving anything?

2 Corinthians 1:20 KJV
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Only in Him are the promises of God made good. There is no other basis for our faith. None other than Jesus and His atonement.

Ephesians 1:3 KJV
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

All the promises of God are blessed in Him, not some exterior power or authority. None other than Jesus and His atonement.

Acts 4:12 KJV
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

No other name, no other power, no other gospel. Jesus is the only Lord and the only power and authority that can save us from anything. None other than Jesus and His atonement.

1 Corinthians 15:27 KJV
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

Christ is over all things. Nobody has power or authority other than Him. Who are we going to ask, or what else will we put faith in except Him and His power? None other than Jesus and His atonement.

Ephesians 1:19-22 KJV
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

What is He not over that some other person or power needs to be addressed to receive redemption? Who else? He is head over all things to the church. We do not need any other Lord or name or power. None other than Jesus and His atonement.

Colossians 1:16-20 KJV
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

It says very plainly that all things are reconciled to Him by the blood of His cross... that is the atonement, and nothing Is reconciled outside of Him and the blood of His cross, including things on earth. None other than Jesus and His atonement.

Hebrews 1:2 KJV
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Who else has access to the things heir of all things? On what basis are these things handled? None other than Jesus and His atonement.

Hebrews 2:7-8 KJV
7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

All things have been placed under the feet of Jesus. I wonder how these things are distributed from under His feet? No need. All things are under His feet and because of that, all things are ours based on His redemption. None other than Jesus and His atonement.

2 Peter 1:3 KJV
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

So all things are ours, and they become available to us by knowledge of Him. There is no other way than Him. None other than Jesus and His atonement.
But since all things are His, are under His feet, and redeemed by His cross, I see nothing in creation that can be received by any other means.

So that is my question to those who depart from the Gospel and the Atonement and deny that He and only He (and His atonement) save us from all things. What or who else is there?

 

[Guojing]

Paul reveals that the suffering of Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law.

From the book of Galatians:
Galatians 3:10-14 KJV
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

A brief reading in the book of Deuteronomy details some of the curse of the law. The chapters are quite long, but we can narrow it down to one or two verses for brevities sake.

Deuteronomy 28:60 KJV
60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

This details every sickness and plague in and outside the book of the law. It is part of the curse of the law that comes upon all who sin against the law. We are redeemed from this because Jesus was crucified. Healing and health are included in this atonement. Review chapters 27 and 28 for a list of all curses and blessings. We are redeemed from these curses by the suffering of Jesus.

Galatians 3 is about the righteousness that comes from faith alone without the Law, which is the singular blessing from Abraham that we received (Galatians 3:8-9, Galatians 3:14)

You are interpreting this singular blessing as all the blessings from following the Law is Deut 28.

 

[com7fy8]

The Gospel message isn’t that Christ died for your health, wealth, and Wisdom, it’s that He died for your sins and saved our souls.

But it is written, "by whose stripes you are healed" > in 1 Peter 2:24. And Jesus says that the cup of the Lord's Supper is "the new covenant" in His blood > "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you." (in Luke 22:20)

So . . . I would say Jesus shed His blood in order for us to be forgiven and saved, yes, but also there is the whole New Covenant in His blood . . . everything that God means by the New Testament. And there is prosperity included in this, including >

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain." (1 Timothy 6:6)

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God."(1 Peter 3:4)

And, of course, all that God means by the New Testament is His prosperity which He desires to share with us. This includes, of course, our Father's correction changing our character to be like Jesus . . . how Jesus is correct > Romans 8:29 with Hebrews 12:4-14. We are commanded to actively seek our Father for His real correction > Hebrews 12:9. But this prosperity has a way of not being mentioned as ones busy their attention with other things.

Now, I would say, by the way, that if the "incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit" is very precious to God, then our having this beauty of His gentle and quiet love is prosperity for God Himself. But it seems how many people arguing about prosperity are only concerned about self-centered prosperity, and both sides do not talk about what is prosperity for God . . . what is precious to Him.

And prosperity for God includes how we are being changed into the image of Jesus, so God has many children who are pleasing to Him like His own Son so delights Him > Romans 8:29 and Colossians 1:28-29 where Paul's attention was, in his ministry.

And what is prosperity for Jesus? Among other things, Jesus is prospered by how our Father so loves Him. And Jesus prays this to us >

that You our Heavenly Father "have loved them as You have loved Me," Jesus claims in His prayer in John 17:23.

But while ones are so busy with fighting and arguing about prosperity, how many talk about the prosperity of being loved by God "as" He has loved Jesus? Jesus prays this His own prosperity to us. This is what has Jesus' attention.

So we need our attention to be healed, then, I suppose we could say. And what does Jesus say?

"'But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.'" (Matthew 6:33)

Now, what Jesus says to seek, I would say, would be what is real and Biblical prosperity. Seek His righteousness and seek His kingdom.

And my opinion is that God's kingdom is His realm of experience . . . of how God is holy and love, and all that God Himself is feeling and how He is loving while in all-control. So, seeking this could mean sharing with God Himself in us, affecting our character. Now . . . then . . . is this where our attention is???? Is this what God's word means? > well, our Apostle Paul says >

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

If we are each "one spirit with" God Himself in us, I would say this will have us sharing with God in His own character and love and even feeling what God is feeling . . . in His kingdom. This is very personal, to share in "one spirit" with God Himself. This would heal us spiritually and emotionally so we are functioning in God's own peace ruling in our hearts; and yes this is commanded >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

But this requires our attention to be with God, all the time, so we are submissive to how He all the time is ruling us in our hearts, with His own peace. But ones not submissive to God might use their time to argue for and against what is physical and not eternal.

But Jesus does guarantee how our Father will give us what we need in this life, while we are seeking first His kingdom. So, I would say this would include health and other provision . . . whatever is needed for doing His will. But my health won't be like in the resurrected body of Jesus, but I have enough

 

[com7fy8]

Yes, but as I said, if you want to claim promises of wealth, it will be silly to use the 4 gospels due to passages like what you used.

But you agree that, if you want to claim promises of health, there are plenty of them there correct?

In my Post #32 above I have offered some explanation of a thing or two.

I would say everything in God's word is related somehow to how God desires to prosper and heal us. But it "might" not be about what humans can mean.

For example > being healed by His stripes, I would say, primarily means how we have been in sin . . . separate from God . . . so we needed to become healed into oneness with Him, so each of us is "one spirit with Him", as we have written in 1 Corinthians 6:17. And this will have major effects in us, in our hearts, emotions, feelings, and even affecting our bodies. Because we have been united with . . . *healed* together with . . . the Holy Spirit who is the Spirit almighty of the resurrection of Christ's body > Romans 8:11.

Also, we have how God commands us to obey how He rules us with His own peace in our hearts > Colossians 3:15 > God's peace almighty affects our hearts with our desires and emotions and feelings. And what happens in us spiritually can have "psychosomatic" effects. We are told how stress can affect our health; so, as God's own peace changes us spiritually and emotionally so we do not give in to stress . . . our bodies are affected by this > "you will find rest for your souls," Jesus guarantees us, in Matthew 11:28-30 > and this rest in our souls does have effects in our bodies. Likewise, anger can affect blood pressure, among other things; and God's word is clear >

"So then, my beloved brethren, let every men be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God." (in James 1:19-20)

To live in God's own peace is greater prosperity than many humans are trying to find.

So, everything in God's word is somehow related to health and wealth . . . what God means by this.

 

[Strong in Him]

I believe in God's will for our prosperity.

God's will is that we accept Jesus, John 6:40.
God's will is that we are holy, 1 Thessalonians 4:3.
God's will is that we rejoice always, pray at all times and give thanks in ALL circumstances, 1 Thess 5:16-18.

But I do believe God for the things He has promised His children if they seek God's kingdom first.

He doesn't promise us money, good health, full employment etc etc.

Without faith, you cannot please God.

God gives faith.
Read Hebrew 11 for a list of those who had faith in God - and who did not all receive what was promised.

I want to give God legitimate pleasure with my Life.

You do.
He loves you because he created you. You are his child because you have accepted Jesus and eternal life. You are God's workmanship, Ephesians 2:10. You have every spiritual blessing in Christ, Ephesians 3:3. No one can separate you from God's love, Romans 8:38-39.
You could die tomorrow without doing another thing, and God would still be pleased with you.
You could lose all your earthly possessions and be unemployed; God would still be pleased with you.

I believe God for a good, safe vehicle (it is difficult to survive in today's world without a vehicle.)

I don't have one.

I believe for nice clothes for my wife and children.

That's a blessing, not a promise.

It is what John expressed in his third letter. "I pray above all things that you prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers."

I've seen that used as a proof text a lot.
John was writing a letter to a friend/church. He expressed a wish/hope that they enjoy good health - it's like us saying "I hope you are well. I wish you all the best" and so on.

I believe God for health and freedom from oppression.

Another blessing, not a promise.
Some people, even Christians, become terminally ill. Some are born disabled. We are not guaranteed good health.

If you seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, then you will have to have all these things added to you.

That implies that if you don't, then you won't.
So if a Christian becomes ill, they haven't sought God enough or had enough faith. That is wrong.

And you will have it if you do not short-circuit it by doubt and by contradicting Him and His Word.

So if you doubt God, question or disagree with the Bible you won't be rewarded by health, nice things and prosperity?
Nonsense. That's a work- based theology; God doesn't owe us for believing in him.

Part of it is giving from your prosperity.

The widow was commended by Jesus because she gave everything.
The early church shared all their possessions.

Be it unto you according to your faith.

This is what Word Of Faith-ers used to say to me when I said that I had M.E.
I was told that I would not be healed because I did not believe God. I did; I did not agree with their theology. I still don't agree with that theology. You seem to be saying if I don't believe, it's not surprising if I have ill health.

No one seems to have told God that - he healed me from M.E. over 15 years ago.

I would only ask that you, for the sake of those believers who are needy and living in poverty,

According to you, no believers need live in poverty - if they do, it's a reflection of their faith.

 

[Guojing]

For example > being healed by His stripes, I would say, primarily means how we have been in sin . . . separate from God . . . so we needed to become healed into oneness with Him, so each of us is "one spirit with Him", as we have written in 1 Corinthians 6:17. And this will have major effects in us, in our hearts, emotions, feelings, and even affecting our bodies. Because we have been united with . . . *healed* together with . . . the Holy Spirit who is the Spirit almighty of the resurrection of Christ's body > Romans 8:11.

You interpret Isaiah 53:5 as spiritual healing from sins, which is certainly a popular way to do so.

But what do you think of Matthew 8:17 which uses that same Isaiah passage to explain the physical healing from sickness and diseases?

 

[Tyler52]

Like the faith heroes of Hebrews 11, we should hold fast to our confession of faith, even if we never receive the promise. But under no circumstances should we deny the faith or contradict His promise. By His stripes, I was healed and still am. That is the confession of my faith. .

I’ll respond to the rest later, but I want to say, the confession of our faith is that Jesus saved us on the cross at Calvary, not that He healed us. Whether we receive healing (although it’s good), or not, Jesus healing us is not the confession of our faith

 

[Strong in Him]

Sometimes poverty, sickness, and oppression are self-inflicted because people have a lack of knowledge about faith, God, and His Word.

Victim blaming.
Never a good idea.

But if a person contradicts God's Word by refuting and denying His scripture facts, then we are not believing Him or in His goodness.

"Refuting God's word"; to what extent?
Not believing proof texts or verses taken out of context? Good thing too.
Not believing that all Scripture applies to us? Again, good job. What do you do with verses like, "stop drinking only water but use a little wine because of your frequent illnesses", 1 Timothy 5:23? Should I start to drink alcohol because the Bible says so? Timothy was frequently ill; shame on him for his lack of faith.

He taught me I did not have to believe or live this way. He taught me poverty is not a good thing we should strive for.

Francis of Assisi and Mother Teresa were the biggest sinners, then.

But I did not have to take this depressing detour in my life to know the truth about God's provisions. I could have just read and accepted His Word.

Reading the Bible prevents your house from burning down? That's a new one.

We do not have to live in poverty.

Define poverty.
Someone on the streets in my country is better off than someone on the streets in other countries - what with homeless shelters, people giving out free clothes, free food and hot drinks, free haircuts etc.
Someone living in a bedsit or B&B is better off than someone on the streets.
Someone who owns, and lives in, a small bungalow is better off than someone renting a one-room bedsit.
Someone in a 2 bedroom house is better off than someone in a small bungalow. Etc etc.

I am talking about bills paid on time, a safe, a warm house, and the needs of our family being met.

Yes, that's a great blessing. But not everyone has this and it has nothing to do with faith.
God can provide, of course he can - but it's not a reward, or result of, believing.

If you love your family, you will want them to live well and be safe. That is not evil.

Of course it isn't.
But implying that it will only happen if you have enough faith, is.

We need to be very careful not to malign God and His goodness.

I don't think anyone here would want to do such a thing.

Who are we to judge God's will? What if He wants someone to be "rich?" What business is that of ours?

And what if he wants someone to live simply, give away all their possessions, live by faith, become another St Francis, or whatever?
Or what if someone is convinced, before God, that that is what they need to do?

Maybe that person will support many missionary works. Thank God for that!

And maybe they won't.
Of course there's nothing wrong with being rich - as long as it doesn't become an idol.
But how many non-Christian lottery winners/millionaires have found God through having lots of wealth and use it to finance Christian works, churches and missions?

 

[Aaron112]

were the biggest sinners, then.

Maybe yes for other reasons plain thru history; not for being poor.

 

[Aaron112]

But how many non-Christian lottery winners/millionaires have found God through having lots of wealth and use it to finance Christian works, churches and missions?

3 ?

 

[Strong in Him]

Maybe yes for other reasons plain thru history; not for being poor.

I know. But the statement was that poverty is not a good thing that we should strive for.
These people did.