prosperity gospel

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

.

 

[CCHIPSS]

Thanks for posting these, really good messages. I'll have to look up these ministers now to listen to their sermons.

Be careful of the likes of John Piper. They are neo-Calvinist and they got some extreme theology.

For example they are very sexist. They believe a wife that is getting physically abused by their husband should still stay with their abusive husband. In fact the wife probably is at fault for his abuse.

They also believe in absolute authority of the elders and pastors. There is no room for members to question their leaders.

They also loves loves loves excommunication. Many of them take pride in excommunicating 2% of the membership each year.

The combine of the two means the members are often kicked out for the any and every reasons. While the leadership are never ever disciplined even when they sin in the most evil and outrageous manner.

Lastly they want to glorify God by purity and work. Not by loving their neighbors as themselves. This difference is actually huge. If you listen to their sermon closely you will see that they are borderline salvation by works and sinless life. Of course they will never admit it.

 

[Galatea]

Be careful of the likes of John Piper. They are neo-Calvinist and they got.some extreme theology.

For example they are very sexist. They believe a wife that is getting physically abused by their husband should still stay with their abusive husband. In fact the wife probably is at fault for his abuse.

They also believe in absolute authority of the elders and pastors. There is no room for members to question their leaders.

They also loves loves loves excommunication. Many of them take pride in excommunicating 2% of the membership each year.

The combine of the two means the members are often kicked out for the wrong reasons. While the leadership are never ever disciplined even when they sin.

Lastly they want to glorify God by purity. Not by loving their neighbors as themselves.

What are NeoCalvinists?

I pretty much take a message based on its merit, and don't really worry about the background of the minister (unless they are part of the money grubbers). I liked the message in the clip and agreed with it.

 

[CCHIPSS]

What are NeoCalvinists?

I pretty much take a message based on its merit, and don't really worry about the background of the minister (unless they are part of the money grubbers). I liked the message in the clip and agreed with it.

The key characteristic of a false prophet is that they will give you 99% truth and 1% lie. But that 1% lie is on some core issues that is enough to twist the whole faith toward falsehood.

I can write a lot to explain what I mean. But here are a few articles on John Piper.

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2012/12/26/domestic-violence-christmas-john-piper-sgm-and-tgc/

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2016/11...ctional-authority-guest-post-by-todd-wilhelm/

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/...em-to-get-domestic-violence-a-personal-story/

As for Neo-Calvinism, their ultimate goal is to build a pure white church that glorify God. That in itself is not wrong. And they should have been patiently and gently fixing their members out of love. But nope! They use scare tactics, threats and excommunications to maintain "purity". So they don't work with love, but with fear! That's why they are borderline salvation by works and purity, not faith.

These are the type of "Christians" that, upon hearing that you are a Christian, will aggressively attack whatever you believe in. They honestly think you are a false Christian if you are not a neo-Calvinist.

 

[Galatea]

The key characteristic of a false prophet is that they will give you 99% truth and 1% lie. But that 1% lie is on some core issues that is enough to twist the whole faith toward falsehood.

I can write a lot to explain what I mean. But here are a few articles on John Piper.

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2012/12/26/domestic-violence-christmas-john-piper-sgm-and-tgc/

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2016/11...ctional-authority-guest-post-by-todd-wilhelm/

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/...em-to-get-domestic-violence-a-personal-story/

As for Neo-Calvinism, their ultimate goal is to build a pure white church that glorify God. That in itself is not wrong. And they should have been patiently and gently fixing their members out of love. But nope! They use scare tactics, threats and excommunications to maintain "purity". So they don't work with love, but with fear! That's why they are borderline salvation by works and purity, not faith.

These are the type of "Christians" that, upon hearing that you are a Christian, will aggressively attack whatever you believe in. They honestly think you are a false Christian if you are not a neo-Calvinist.

I did not know people excommunicated people from churches any more. I was unaware of this. Maybe I live in a more lax area or something because I have never heard of people being shunned or excommunicated for anything. I have heard of people not being allowed to have leadership roles in churches, but that's it.

 

[timewerx]

It's an endemic teaching in 3rd world countries. Missionaries, pls, stop spreading these lies.

Prosperity in this world is tied up to the economy. It's an unclean resource. This is why Jesus never gave out money to help the poor even if He could.

Anyway, to make myself clear, it is not evil to give away money or use money to help others. I just want to point out a clear message that money isn't a sign of God's favor.

1 John 2:15-17
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father[a] is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

What is the lust of the eyes, flesh, and the pride of life? It is obviously material prosperity. The blessings that Jesus was talking about was something else. It is something that cannot be bought with money.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What did the FATHER give to Jesus to give away ?
(instead of money)
This might be just as important as why Jesus did not give money away.
The Father's Purpose wasn't for Jesus to be known for giving money away.
Not even tithing money !!!!!!!! < shock some people >

Instead, who did Jesus give money to ? (and that money came from the mouth of a FISH !!! ) hahaha (just thought of that just now)

Still, don't forget what the FATHER says to DO _ - : IF ANYONE asks for money for their NEEDS , give it to them and do not expect to get any thing back from them !!!!!!!!! < shock some more people >
ADMITTED: "ANYONE" might be referring to BRETHREN/ someone known , not a stranger, not a scammer with a cardboard sign on the corner !!!

EVEN IN THE OLD TESTAMENT: YHWH (God) said : loan money to your fellow countrymen if they need it; and IF THEIR CROP FAILS (expected income to be able to return the money)
do not take anything from them !!! < another shock ? >
i.e. loan the money but do not take action to get it back if they cannot pay it back within 7 years (or until the appointed year).
DO NOT refrain from loaning them money , thinking sinfully in the heart that they might not be able to pay it back before the year of jubilee(when all loans are completely wiped out/ forgiven and forgotten) ....

This is why Jesus never gave out money to help the poor even if He could.

 

[CCHIPSS]

I did not know people excommunicated people from churches any more. I was unaware of this. Maybe I live in a more lax area or something because I have never heard of people being shunned or excommunicated for anything. I have heard of people not being allowed to have leadership roles in churches, but that's it.

Yeah some of the stories coming out from NeoCal are very scary. It is so important to observe the love in a church. I mean church and members often mistreat each other by mistake. But it is very difficult when a church systematiclly allow it's leadership to mistreat certain type of people for whatever reason.

An abusive husband might say he is doing it out of love when he hits you with a baseball bat. But that isn't real love.

 

[Galatea]

Yeah some of the stories coming out from NewCal are very scary. It is so important to observe the love in a church. I mean church and members often mistreat each other by mistake. But it is very difficult when a church systematiclly allow it's leadership to mistreat certain type of people for whatever reason.

An abusive husband might say he is doing it out of love when he hits you with a baseball bat. But that isn't real love.

I don't want to define love, it's a long story. Let's just say, I always thought the last scene in Carousel was stupid "If somebody hits you, hits you real hard, if they love you it doesn't hurt." I always thought "that's one of the most stupid things I ever heard." But, my persepective about life and love has changed in ways. I can't denounce women who stay with abusive or cheating husbands. They may still love them. I used to think women still stayed with men because of Battered Wife Syndrome, they believe they can't get out. But, a lot of them may stay in a bad relationship because they really love their husbands.

I don't think a church should tell a woman to stay with an abusive man if she wants to leave, but I don't want to unfairly judge women who stay with an abusive man. I don't know what is in her heart. She might hope he will change, maybe the good times outnumber the bad, maybe she is an incurable optimist. I don't know. I know women, and probably men too, can keep loving even when they're not loved back. Even when the love on his part is gone. So, I can't judge women who are abused anymore.

I agree with you that a church should not tell a woman to stay with an abusive husband if she wants out.

 

[CCHIPSS]

I don't want to define love, it's a long story. Let's just say, I always thought the last scene in Carousel was stupid "If somebody hits you, hits you real hard, if they love you it doesn't hurt." I always thought "that's one of the most stupid things I ever heard." But, my persepective about life and love has changed in ways. I can't denounce women who stay with abusive or cheating husbands. They may still love them. I used to think women still stayed with men because of Battered Wife Syndrome, they believe they can't get out. But, a lot of them may stay in a bad relationship because they really love their husbands.

I don't think a church should tell a woman to stay with an abusive man if she wants to leave, but I don't want to unfairly judge women who stay with an abusive man. I don't know what is in her heart. She might hope he will change, maybe the good times outnumber the bad, maybe she is an incurable optimist. I don't know. I know women, and probably men too, can keep loving even when they're not loved back. Even when the love on his part is gone. So, I can't judge women who are abused anymore.

I agree with you that a church should not tell a woman to stay with an abusive husband if she wants out.

These NeoCals not only tell women to stay with abusive husbands. They actually excommunicated women who did left their abusive husbands. This is why their church(s) are sick and they need to repent. For example:

https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.co...ate-church-discipline-and-failed-efca-polity/

In another example a missionary woman had a husband that is addicted to child exotic videos. And he might have paid for child sex services in that 3rd world country. This is clear sexual immortality, solid ground for divorce. When she wants to separate her bank account from him, the church stepped in to try to stop her, saying that would bring them too close to divorce. When she tries to leave the church membership the church stopped her from leaving, using the church convenient she signed as a legal document against her. When eventually she did file for divorce she was excommunicated.

http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2011/06/16/kerrins-story-part-i/
http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2011/06/21/kerrins-story-part-ii/

Leaving a sexually immoral husband is not a sin. Leaving an abusive husband is not a sin. It is the right thing to do. Yes the wife can choose to stay with that terrible husband out of love. But it would be right to leave him.

Here is my stance on excommunication: A church cannot excommunicate people for sinning. Because if that is the case, everyone single church member will need to be excommunicated (who doesn't sin?). The only ground for excommunication is for being proud and boasting of one's sins. And these sins must be clearly defined by the bible as serious, not some made-up sin or minor sins. And these disciplines and communication must be done out of love.

And being proud and boasting can only mean one thing, that the member is showing off his sins. That means he is actively telling everyone to sin like he is doing, even when no one is asking him about it. If that member is hiding his sins, obviously he is guilty about it. If you go and ask him about his sin and he disagrees that it is a sin, this doesn't mean he is boasting. He is hiding his sins because he is guilty. He wasn't showing off. He just disagrees with the stance of you or the church. This isn't ground for excommunication. A church cannot excommunicate people because of theology differences.

But if someone is sleeping with his mother and telling everyone in the church to do the same, he is harming other members in the church. (1 Corinthians 5:1-8) So to protect other members and to hopefully help him out of his sins, the church had no choice but to excommunicate him. This is the last resort and must not be used lightly.

If anyone is proudly and boastfully a "immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler" (1 Corinthian 5:9-12) and it showing off to everyone, the church must also excommunicate him. And if your faith and knowledge in God and the bible is weak (as the Corinthians were weak), do not even eat with such people because they will lead you yourself astray. But if he was hiding his sins and disagree with the church on his sins, he must not be excommunicated. Because he wasn't harming others. In fact the church should figure out how to help him and bring him back into the light and truth of God.

 

[Galatea]

These NeoCals not only tell women to stay with abusive husbands. They actually excommunicated women who did left their abusive husbands. This is why their church(s) are sick and they need to repent. For example:

https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.co...ate-church-discipline-and-failed-efca-polity/

In another example a missionary woman had a husband that is addicted to child exotic videos. And he might have paid for child sex services in that 3rd world country. This is clear sexual immortality, solid ground for divorce. When she wants to separate her bank account from him, the church stepped in to try to stop her, saying that would bring them too close to divorce. When she tries to leave the church membership the church stopped her from leaving, using the church convenient she signed as a legal document against her. When eventually she did file for divorce she was excommunicated.

http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2011/06/16/kerrins-story-part-i/
http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2011/06/21/kerrins-story-part-ii/

Here is my stance on excommunication: A church cannot excommunicate people for sinning. Because if that is the case, everyone single church member will need to be excommunicated (who doesn't sin?). The only ground for excommunication is for being proud and boasting of one's sins. And these sins must be clearly defined by the bible as serious, not some made-up sin or minor sins. And these disciplines and communication must be done out of love.

And being proud and boasting can only mean one thing, that the member is showing off his sins. That means he is actively telling everyone to sin like he is doing, even when no one is asking him about it. If that member is hiding his sins, obviously he is guilty about it. But if someone is sleeping with his mother and telling everyone in the church to do the same, he is harming other members in the church. So to protect other members and to hopefully help him, the church had no choice but to excommunicate him. This is the last resort and must not be used lightly.

Leaving a sexually immoral husband is not a sin. Leaving an abusive husband is not a sin. It is the right thing to do. Yes the wife can choose to stay with that terrible husband out of love. But it would be right to leave him.

I would not join a church I had to sign a contract to join. That's strange to me. I don't think excommunication is very loving. A church is not a museum of perfect people but a hospital for recovering sinners.

After all, Jesus didn't come to the people who are whole and healthy.

Yes, that is awful that the church tried to force the women to stay with husbands they don't want to be married to any longer. I believe marriage is sacred, and too many people get divorced for light reasons (money, irreconcilable differences , etc). But there is a danger in the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction. There are reasons why people need to be divorced sometimes.

The churches you describe sound legalistic.