prosperity gospel

[TheGirlOnFire]

Right so prosperity gospel.

What are your thoughts on it ?

What makes a pastor preach prosperity gospel?

If they do preach it are they false, do they not believe in god ?

Do you agree with this gospel and your church preach it ?

Why do people follow it and if they are they really not christians then ?

Basically discuss this issue.


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[Galatea]

Prosperity gospel is basically teaching that if you are a Christian, "every little thing's going to be alright."

It is heretical, and cruel. This world is rough, and tough. Sickness exists, sin exists, and people who seek to live a godly life will be persecuted.

II Timothy 3:12 "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

The persecution may be severe, like the martyrs in places like North Korea- or it may be mild like people simply making fun of you, calling you a fanatic or judgmental, etc.

Christ tells us that we shouldn't think it is weird if the world does not love us, because the world did not love Him.

I don't know if the people who preach it are unsaved, they MAY be well meaning, but they are definitely not in the Word. It is a false teaching.

If life is going great, you're well and healthy, making money, everything's peachy, people might go along with prosperity gospel. But what happens when tragedy strikes? When the sun is hidden by a cloud? If you believe in the "every little thing's gonna be alright" mentality, then you don't know where God is in times of distress. It's like the seed that was sown in the parable. Weeds came up and choked the plants, the cares of the world destroyed their faith.

If someone believes in the prosperity gospel, and bad things happen, then the person thinks God has betrayed them and this is very bad.

 

[Greg J.]

There's different ways to preach prosperity, some are right, some are wrong, and some can be right depending on what the hearer hears or does. One wrong way is: become a Christian and God will bless you with financial prosperity. Or, put your hope in Jesus and you will prosper in this life.

One right way to preach prosperity is to preach Deuteronomy 28. There's a lot more in Scripture like that, but hardly anyone is actually meeting the conditions that God set (let alone living in a community that is meeting the conditions).

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ (bold mine, Mark 12:30, 1984 NIV)

Unfortunately, many people fail to see the truth in the following verse, which emphasizes a promise with a condition, rather than a "Thou Shalt."

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. (Malachi 3:10, 1984 NIV)

This is a unique promise from God in that we don't even have to have the right attitude to receive the blessing ("Test me in this"). However, there are still things at our end that can hinder us from receiving the blessing.

 

[Greg J.]

Prosperity gospel is basically teaching that if you are a Christian, "every little thing's going to be alright."

*In this life.

Because everything is going to be all right eventually if one has entrusted themselves to Jesus Christ (the next life). Scripture actually commands/encourages followers of Christ to have this attitude.

 

[Travelers.Soul]

Basically my thoughts....

Spoiler

Edit....and this....

Spoiler

 

[Galatea]

*In this life.

Because everything is going to be all right eventually if one has entrusted themselves to Jesus Christ (the next life). We are actually commanded to have this attitude.

I know everything is going to be BETTTER than alright in the next life- I am referring to the journey here.

Here's a verse that encapsulates both:
Romans 8:18 "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

 

[Galatea]

Basically my thoughts....

Spoiler

Edit....and this....

Spoiler

Thanks for posting these, really good messages. I'll have to look up these ministers now to listen to their sermons.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Right so prosperity gospel.
What are your thoughts on it ? What makes a pastor preach prosperity gospel? If they do preach it are they false, do they not believe in god ? Do you agree with this gospel and your church preach it ? Why do people follow it and if they are they really not christians then ? Basically discuss this issue.

Do you think we should expose the false gospel if we see it being promoted ?
And should we share, preach, tell, post the true gospel ?

 

[Travelers.Soul]

Thanks for posting these, really good messages. I'll have to look up these ministers now to listen to their sermons.

You're welcome. I highly recommend John Piper and Matt Chandler.

 

[OcifferPls]

I don't pay tithes, ask for gifts or believe in a prosperity gospel, and I would be careful here. I know a lot of people outside "the church" who seem to hate God because something didn't go well. The ones I have known well (friends, some of whom came back to christianity), were disillusioned and distrustful of God, not because of natural consequences, and not because they hated Christ, but because of the way they were treated by people in "the church" preaching something about God's will about this or that, and I am certain their distrust has nothing to do with a prosperity gospel. Certainly, if someone is betrayed and believes a lie about the betrayer being loved more by God, and that s/he "deserved" it, then that person has believed a lie which can then lead them into having trust issues with God and the church, but I can't really blame them.

The kind of heresy that worries me most is anti-Christian heresy: originating out of an intent which is against Christ (like Judas). It's very important to me to reject notions of a God who wants Christians and Christ in them crucified. So on one hand, a prosperity gospel could lead people into believing "if you're suffering, God hates you." Could that be used against Christ in the crucifixion? It seems plausible. On the other hand, could a "God wants you to suffer" doctrine be used against Christ? I know so. But words are just words, sounds and symbols. What matters is intent, and often that is reflected in our words.

 

[Jack of Spades]

II Timothy 3:12 "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

The persecution may be severe, like the martyrs in places like North Korea- or it may be mild like people simply making fun of you, calling you a fanatic or judgmental, etc.

Actually, this persecution - line is what most of the prosperity guys use as a proof for them being of God. They say that the fact that they get critisized so hard by other Christians, is a sign of them being persecuted for doing God's job.

At least that way it was 15 years ago, I'm not sure if it still is as I haven't been around the Charismatic movement lately. But that was the standard response, someone critisizes the prosperity dudes, they respond by saying that "real men of God are always attacked like this".

 

[Galatea]

Actually, this persecution - line is what most of the prosperity guys use as a proof for them being of God. They say that the fact that they get critisized so hard by other Christians, is a sign of them being persecuted for doing God's job.

At least that way it was 15 years ago, I'm not sure if it still is as I haven't been around the Charismatic movement lately. But that was the standard response, someone critisizes the prosperity dudes, they respond by saying that "real men of God are always attacked like this".

I could see where the prosperity gospel people would think those of us who think their gospel is heresy might be persecuting them, but if they follow their own logic, they should not be persecuted since they believe in God, therefore something must be wrong in their belief- ie they have not enough faith. Otherwise, everything would be alright. This is the problem with their gospel.

Lots of times, people are turned off of Christianity because it seems saccharine- there's no backbone to a "don't worry, be happy" kind of mentality. Life is not easy, and people need a gospel that tells them "Life is not easy, but Christ is with you, no matter what." Something with a backbone, not a popsickle kind of faith that melts away in the face of adversity.

The prosperity gospel makes God into a cosmic Santa Claus, giving you whatever you want.

 

[Jack of Spades]

I could see where the prosperity gospel people would think those of us who think their gospel is heresy might be persecuting them, but if they follow their own logic, they should not be persecuted since they believe in God, therefore something must be wrong in their belief- ie they have not enough faith. Otherwise, everything would be alright. This is the problem with their gospel.

All of the prosperity guys I have known of, see persecution as the exception, as that is so much talked about in the Bible. In their world view, persecution is part of the spiritual warfare, which is kinda big deal in their theology.

They say that "In Christian life, being persecuted for ones faith is the only sufferring you have to bear" and things like that.

Lots of times, people are turned off of Christianity because it seems saccharine- there's no backbone to a "don't worry, be happy" kind of mentality. Life is not easy, and people need a gospel that tells them "Life is not easy, but Christ is with you, no matter what." Something with a backbone, not a popsickle kind of faith that melts away in the face of adversity.

The prosperity gospel makes God into a cosmic Santa Claus, giving you whatever you want.

Some not-small portion of the prosperity pastors are outright charlatans, but plenty of honest Charismatic Christians have adopted those elements in their theology too.

I think the prosperity theology is partly a rather typical religious phenomenon where an old religion adopts elements of a secular philoshophy (materialism, pursue of success etc.) in it.

But on the other hand, it's not at all an unbiblical idea, as the OT speaks a lot about material blessings as a result of being right with God. So, it really comes down to how much of importance the words of the OT are given.

 

[Galatea]

All of the prosperity guys I have known of, see persecution as the exception, as that is so much talked about in the Bible. In their world view, persecution is part of the spiritual warfare, which is kinda big deal in their theology.

They say that "In Christian life, being persecuted for ones faith is the only sufferring you have to bear" and things like that.



Some not-small portion of the prosperity pastors are outright charlatans, but plenty of honest Charismatic Christians have adopted those elements in their theology too.

I think the prosperity theology is partly a rather typical religious phenomenon where an old religion adopts elements of a secular philoshophy (materialism, pursue of success etc.) in it.

But on the other hand, it's not at all an unbiblical idea, as the OT speaks a lot about material blessings as a result of being right with God. So, it really comes down to how much of importance the words of the OT are given.

With regards to the OT, that's where knowing "the Coverdale statement" is important
"It shall greatly help you to understand Scriptures if you mark not only what is spoken or written, but of whom, and to whom, with what words, at what time. Where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goes before and what follows after."

There is a big problem (and all if us are guilty) of taking a verse out of context, just pulling out random verses here and there. Satan did this when he tempted Jesus in the wilderness. Anybody can take a verse and make a religion out of it.

The OT promises were to Israel, and not to this present age. I could see where a lot of people might be good people, and mistakenly go into prosperity gospel. I remember the prayer of Jabez being a fad years ago, but it is still very wrong. It is very wrong to teach people that if they have enough faith they will have no problems at all, and contrary to the New Testament promises. The promise of trouble! But God being with us in our trouble.

 

[Jack of Spades]

With regards to the OT, that's where knowing "the Coverdale statement" is important
"It shall greatly help you to understand Scriptures if you mark not only what is spoken or written, but of whom, and to whom, with what words, at what time. Where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goes before and what follows after."

Sure, I'm not defending them. I'm just quoting what I have read and heard them say. I greatly dislike the prosperity gospel myself. It's a bubble-religion, where people can't face the reality, and either they keep building up the bubble with stronger and stronger denial mechanisms, or get desperate about their lack of faith, or have the bubble break and get big time disillusioned.

There is a big problem (and all if us are guilty) of taking a verse out of context, just pulling out random verses here and there. Satan did this when he tempted Jesus in the wilderness. Anybody can take a verse and make a religion out of it.

I love doing this, I cherry-pick the verses I like etc. But the difference being obviously that, I don't assume that to be the one and only way to read the Bible. It's just my way.

But I'm getting off-topic here. Sorry.

 

[Galatea]

Sure, I'm not defending them. I'm just quoting what I have read and heard them say. I greatly dislike the prosperity gospel myself. It's a bubble-religion, where people can't face the reality, and either they keep building up the bubble with stronger and stronger denial mechanisms, or get desperate about their lack of faith, or have the bubble break and get big time disillusioned.



I love doing this, I cherry-pick the verses I like etc. But the difference being obviously that, I don't assume that to be the one and only way to read the Bible. It's just my way.

But I'm getting off-topic here. Sorry.

My mistake, I thought you were somewhat defending it. It's a very cruel heresy and misleading.

I don't think cherry picking verses is a good idea, it doesn't make sense to me, but I know you don't have any set doctrines.

That's okay, I get off topic myself. I think it is a natural happening on message boards.

 

[CodyFaith]

edited.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Right so prosperity gospel.

What are your thoughts on it ?

What makes a pastor preach prosperity gospel?

If they do preach it are they false, do they not believe in god ?

Do you agree with this gospel and your church preach it ?

Why do people follow it and if they are they really not christians then ?

Basically discuss this issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The prosperity gospel is an aberration. It seems people only preach it because of what it means for their own financial gain (see: Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyer, and Joel Osteen's net worth). They may believe in God, but it's a very perverted understanding of the Triune God that's expounded on in the Nicene Creed.

In all likelihood, people follow it because they don't know any better. In Protestantism, people aren't well-educated in the faith because so much emphasis is placed on feelings and instant conversion, that nobody puts any sort of value on educating new believers what's Christian and what isn't. Therefore it's easy to fall into the trappings that say "if you believe hard enough, God will bless you with health and wealth".

 

[keith99]

The prosperity Gospel is older than Christianity. It was well established when Jesus walked this Earth:

Matthew19:23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”…

Note the reaction of the disciples, they do not say they are then glad that they are poor, they echo the belief that those with wealth are favored by God and if the wealthy cannot be saved then who can?

The same attitude permeates the entire book of Job, yet that book makes it clear that Job was both righteous and favored by God.

But as far as I can recall there is no hint in scripture of the rank evil of much (most?) of the modern prosperity Gospel. That is that by giving to a certain preacher one obtains wealth. That is vile and if the Christian God is real I expect there is a special part of Hell reserved for these preachers.

 

[CCHIPSS]

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. (Malachi 3:10, 1984 NIV)

This is a unique promise from God in that we don't even have to have the right attitude to receive the blessing ("Test me in this"). However, there are still things at our end that can hinder us from receiving the blessing.

That verse is often misquoted. That promise was not to a single individual, but to the whole Israel nation. God was challenging the "rebellious" Israel to test God by donating to the temple so it can offer the poor free food, helping the widows and orphans, etc.

Unfortunately as we know Israel never went back to God (as God wanted it) before Jesus was born. Pharisees doesn't count because they are false prophets and false teachers. So this promise was never fulfilled. Israel never became that powerful nation where every other nation will call it blessed.

We also have to be careful in separating the meanings of a "blessed nation" from "everyone in that nation is blessed". For example USA is the most powerful nation in the world. No other nation in history has ever came even close to it. However does that mean no one is poor and suffering in USA? No it doesn't. There are plenty of homeless, widows and orphans in USA.

God also referred to Jesus in Malachi 3. Verses 1-4 and 16-18. Also Malachi 4. So the blessing could also refer to eternal life from Jesus.