Praying the Rosary vs Matthew 6:7-8

[Asimis]

Greetings,

I was talking to a protestant today who started telling me his complains about the Catholic Church, among them was praying The Rosary. He quoted the following:

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

How would you respond to this objection about praying The Rosary? I know it is optional but he is against the simple fact of allowing it. Any insight on this?

Thanks,
Asimis

 

[D'Ann]

[q]7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.[/q]

1. Remind him that when we pray...it is not a vain repetition...we are not heathen...(that is such an insult...sorry...don't mean to digress).

2. When we pray the Rosary, we do not pray to be heard...most of us pray quietly and privately...

3. Yes, our heavenly Father does know what we have need of before we ask...but we still need to pray...

Ask, and it shall be given...seek, and you will find... knock, and the door will be open...

Those Scriptures do not pertain to Mary at all...In actuality, is this person telling you that we are not to pray at all...or in public? If that's the case...I have to wonder what kind of church does this person go to? How do they begin their service? Don't they also pray in church?

I'll do some praying and try and think of more to add...hopefully, someone else will be here and be able to help you out better than me...

God's Peace,

D'Ann

 

[lonnienord]

excellent response D'Ann!!

 

[karla]

Matthew 6:7 - When read in proper context, it is clear that the Lord is referring to the chanted prayers of the pagans who think that they can direct the forces of nature by their continual chanting.

The repeated prayer in faith is not only permitted, but practiced and commended. Our Divine Lord Jesus Christ often spent whole nights in prayer as did many of the patriarchs and prophets. St. Paul exhorts the Christian to "pray without ceasing." (I Thessalonians 5:17) Some sects will carry this injunction against repetition to wretched excess, by selection of words in their prayer to avoid repeating some phrase. Their focus then is on their elocution, and not on God. Our Lord then gives us a model of prayer: the Lord’s Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13). The study of the Lord’s Prayer (the Our Father) is a whole study in itself. Mediation on the Our Father is an excellent subject of contemplative prayer, which I will address later.

As a side note: I think it is all in how and why you are praying. It is very easy for our prayer life to become repetitious. For some, praying the Rosary may just be saying the same words over and over without any thought. For others like me, it is a way of focusing on the Passion and the Life of Christ and thanking Him for all that he has done and will continue to do.

 

[Benedicta00]

Greetings,

I was talking to a protestant today who started telling me his complains about the Catholic Church, among them was praying The Rosary. He quoted the following:



How would you respond to this objection about praying The Rosary? I know it is optional but he is against the simple fact of allowing it. Any insight on this?

Thanks,
Asimis

I would ask what does he have against scripture because the rosary is scripture pure and simple, next I would say then do not keep praying for the same intention twice, do not pray a psalms more than once, to not offer the same praise and worship music over and over, and do not repeat your love and dedication to God more than once in prayer.

Ask him if God ever tires of hearing that he is loved? Ask him if God is ever tired of hearing His Word?

This particular verse refers to those who do not pray any prayer- I don’t care what it is, vocal or mental from the heart. Ask him if our prayers come from the heart, what does it matter that we say them over and over, would God really be offended by that? They are from the heart, not from us just saying them to hear ourselves speak. That is what God is against. Vain repetition, where does he get off saying every prayer form a Catholic is said in vain?

 

[kimber1]

i was alwasy under the impression (ironically from my teaching from my old Baptist church) that that verse meant the people who were making a grand flourish to make themselves noticed. using a bunch of big words and doing so loudly so recognition would be on THEM and how pious they were rather than on God.

 

[Benedicta00]

i was alwasy under the impression (ironically from my teaching from my old Baptist church) that that verse meant the people who were making a grand flourish to make themselves noticed. using a bunch of big words and doing so loudly so recognition would be on THEM and how pious they were rather than on God.

That too. False humility. Jesus was constantly pointing out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. He said when you fast, wash your face so no one will know you are fasting. Do not do these things to show everyone how religious you are, like the Pharisees would do.

 

[seebs]

Here's my thought. Vain repetitions is repeating the same requests over and over in the hopes of getting a different answer.

I don't think the Rosary is said with the expectation of convincing God of anything. No one's imagining God sitting there on His throne, muttering "I'm sure someone's full of grace, but I can't think whom...", and then the fifteen billionth Hail Mary reaches Him and he suddenly says "Oh, now I get it."

So I don't think this is comparable to what I always understood vain repetitions.

 

[Gwendolyn]

I would ask what does he have against scripture because the rosary is scripture pure and simple,

...Really? Where? Or are you simply talking about the prayers involved in that particular dedication?

 

[Paul S]

...Really? Where? Or are you simply talking about the prayers involved in that particular dedication?

The first part of the Ave Maria, Ave, [Maria,] gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, is Luke 1:28, the salutation of Gabriel at the Annunciation. And I'm sure no Protestant has a problem with the next part, benedictus fructus ventris tui, Jesus.

The last part is asking Mary to pray for us, Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen. That's probably the part Protestants disagree with, but I'm sure you know praying to the saints is very scriptural.

And the Pater Nosterwas given to us by Jesus Himself, and it's in the Bible.

The meditations are all from Scripture, except two, and even those have Scriptural support.

The emphasis in the Matthew verse is on vain, not on repetitions. Too many Protestants miss that and use to it attack the Rosary, but when you point out that the idea that all repetition is vain, they should see how ridiculous that is. If it were, we should never pray the same words twice, or for the same intention twice, and even Protestants do that.

 

[seebs]

...or for the same intention twice, and even Protestants do that.

Unless they're very indecisive.

 

[nyj]

D'Ann hit the money on the head. The Rosary, when prayed properly and reverently, is not a vain repetition. Catholics are taught growing up, to pray the Rosary properly and reverently. The Pope, and countless other Popes in the two millenia the Church has stood, have taught on how to pray the Rosary properly and reverently.

Do some people pray the Rosary to appear to look pious (the definition of vain which I think applies in this instance)? I'm sure there are. Just as I'm sure there are protestants wearing their version of ashes and sackcloth to garner attention to their own "christian sacrifices".

 

[Gwendolyn]

The first part of the Ave Maria, Ave, [Maria,] gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, is Luke 1:28, the salutation of Gabriel at the Annunciation. And I'm sure no Protestant has a problem with the next part, benedictus fructus ventris tui, Jesus.

The last part is asking Mary to pray for us, Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen. That's probably the part Protestants disagree with, but I'm sure you know praying to the saints is very scriptural.

And the Pater Nosterwas given to us by Jesus Himself, and it's in the Bible.

The meditations are all from Scripture, except two, and even those have Scriptural support.

The emphasis in the Matthew verse is on vain, not on repetitions. Too many Protestants miss that and use to it attack the Rosary, but when you point out that the idea that all repetition is vain, they should see how ridiculous that is. If it were, we should never pray the same words twice, or for the same intention twice, and even Protestants do that.

Thanks, Paul, for your response. I'm well aware of the prayers and their origins, but I just wasn't clear on whether Shelby was talking about the origins of the prayers themselves, or whether she was talking about the origins of the Rosary dedication.

It is one of my Lenten dedications this year, and I intend to continue it - it is a beautiful meditation and it puts my soul and mind at ease before I sleep.

Anyway, I think Karla gave an excellent answer on this subject.

 

[Benedicta00]

...Really? Where? Or are you simply talking about the prayers involved in that particular dedication?

How is the roasry anything but scripture?

The prayers are all scriptural and/or came straight from scripture- word for word.

The mediations are on scripture, so how is the rosary not scripture?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Greetings,

I was talking to a protestant today who started telling me his complains about the Catholic Church, among them was praying The Rosary. He quoted the following:



How would you respond to this objection about praying The Rosary? I know it is optional but he is against the simple fact of allowing it. Any insight on this?

Thanks,
Asimis

I have not read through all the responses yet, so I don't know if this was touched on . . in case it wasn't:

The key word is "Vain" and the key words are "Vain Repetition"

This referred to something VERY specific, and if one does not have this information, it comes across to us very differently than it is supposed to .


First and foremost . . it is not condemning ALL repetitious prayers . . just VAIN repeitious prayers.


Once tha is understood, then the question is, 'What does the phrase "vain repetition" refer to in this context?'

The answer to this is very simple and very specific:

At the time of Jesus, those who worshipped idols faced a problem. The name or title of the "god" they were praying to changed at the whim of the "god", and the "god" could have many, many names . . You had to call the "god" by his or her correct name for that day, or your prayers would not be heard . . . So, they had to go through a litany of names with thier prayer . . repeating their prayer each day to each of the many names their "god" went by, so they would be sure not to miss any and thus possibly miss the one he or she was going by that particular day.

Look again at the verse you were presented with . . . vain repetitions as the HEATHAN do . . . this is referring to the heathan practice of idol worship . .


It is perfectly fine to use repetitious prayers, even litanies in Catholicism . . .They are what Jesus was referring to here because 1) they are not directed towards idols, and 2) God and the saints do not change their names from day to day, and so our litanies do not serve the same purpose . . they are not "vain" . . . they are not empty, useless or meaningless.




And keep in mind that our Lord Himself employed repetitious prayer:

Mat 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Mat 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Mat 26:43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.

Mat 26:44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.


​

Repetitious prayer was never condemned by our Lord . . only VAIN repetitious prayer.



Peace in Him!

 

[Spotty]

Greetings,

I was talking to a protestant today who started telling me his complains about the Catholic Church, among them was praying The Rosary. He quoted the following:



How would you respond to this objection about praying The Rosary? I know it is optional but he is against the simple fact of allowing it. Any insight on this?

Thanks,
Asimis

Revelation 4:8 - "The four living creatures, each of them with six wings, were covered with eyes inside and out. Day and night they do not stop exclaiming: 'Holy, holy, holy isthe Lord God almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.'"

Clearly repitition isn't the issue, it's the proper context in which the prayer is said which should be addressed. I wish those you use the "vain repitition" argument would start using a bit of logic when addressing this issue.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Revelation 4:8 - "The four living creatures, each of them with six wings, were covered with eyes inside and out. Day and night they do not stop exclaiming: 'Holy, holy, holy isthe Lord God almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.'"

Clearly repitition isn't the issue, it's the proper context in which the prayer is said which should be addressed. I wish those you use the "vain repitition" argument would start using a bit of logic when addressing this issue.

Yes indeed . . if all repetitious prayer is vain, then heaven is full of what Christ condemned . . . . vain repetitious prayer.



Peace in Him!

 

[FLMike]

Revelation 4:8 - "The four living creatures, each of them with six wings, were covered with eyes inside and out. Day and night they do not stop exclaiming: 'Holy, holy, holy isthe Lord God almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.'"

Clearly repitition isn't the issue, it's the proper context in which the prayer is said which should be addressed. I wish those you use the "vain repitition" argument would start using a bit of logic when addressing this issue.

I was just about to post that same verse, but now that you've posted it I wouldn't want to be accused of vain repetition!

I'd also ask the protestant to give an example of non-vain repetition. Clearly such a thing must exist, or there would have been no need to qualify "repetition" with "vain". Once you've gotten him/her to acknowledge the concept of non-vain repetition, the issue goes away.

 

[Asimis]

Hey all thanks for the amazing posts! Very helpful.

 

[Markh]

Because of the verse mentioned in the first post I generally consider those beads which were just said repetitively invalid and I go back a few saying them again, making sure to meditate on the mysteries of the rosary.

In order to make sure I do not mindlessly repeat Hail Marys I often say a piece of scripture out loud or a commetry on an aspect of that mystery in order to keep my mind on the rosary.