Pope Francis attacks Christian Fundamentalist Catholics in response to Terrorism

[BobRyan]

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Nope- humanity, at least in the west, acted all that out centuries ago. Hopefully we'll never repeat it.

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I am happy that more and more people are willing to admit that the dark ages tactics, torture, the inquisition, capital punishment for "thought crimes" ("Belief" crimes) etc were not good at all.

Perhaps reluctance to do that is the "Christian fundamentalist" element that Francis is talking about. That would be "option 1" in the list.

 

[Achilles6129]

Achilles implied that Catholics don't think the Bible is inerrant, or take it seriously, which is just not true.

Sorry, most Catholics I've come across take the Bible in an extremely non-literal fashion. Am I wrong?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Shall we simply "not look at the news" if it is about something Pope Francis said??

Simply find the quotes, read the entire transcript. Then you should ask him your questions.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Trying to see how the violence in Paris and the Fundamentalists in the Catholic Church as reported by Pope Francis are somehow the same.

Your argument that the dark ages tactics are really not so wrong after all - is worrisome.

Feel free to worry, then. But we know that you can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Only the Holy Spirit can (and will) do that.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Sorry, most Catholics I've come across take the Bible in an extremely non-literal fashion. Am I wrong?

Most decidedly. The Church takes the Bible the way it was meant to be taken. It's funny you should say that, though. We take John 6 extremely literally, and ya'll balk at it, and try to change it to figurative language...

 

[chevyontheriver]

Most decidedly. The Church takes the Bible the way it was meant to be taken. It's funny you should say that, though. We take John 6 extremely literally, and ya'll balk at it, and try to change it to figurative language...

How do I double like a post?

 

[BobRyan]

We take John 6 extremely literally, and ya'll balk at it, and try to change it to figurative language...

John 6:63 Jesus said that literal flesh is "worthless - it is my WORDS that are Spirit and Life" -- I take that literally. - since he is explaining his own symbolism.

And in MAtt 16 - Jesus reprimands them for not getting the symbol of bread - as meaning "teaching"

So now back to this actual thread - what is the meaning of "Catholic fundamentalist"??

 

[Root of Jesse]

John 6:63 Jesus said that literal flesh is "worthless - it is my WORDS that are Spirit and Life" -- I take that literally. - since he is explaining his own symbolism.

Yeah, and not the rest of the entire chapter...

And in MAtt 16 - Jesus reprimands them for not getting the symbol of bread - as meaning "teaching"

Entirely different situation, but ya'll don't have the backdrop for that, do ya?

So now back to this actual thread - what is the meaning of "Catholic fundamentalist"??

I wasn't the one who called out Catholics for not taking the Bible seriously or literally...speak to that one.

 

[BobRyan]

So now back to this actual thread - what is the meaning of "Catholic fundamentalist"??

One who takes John 6 literally - except for the part where Jesus explains the symbol of flesh saying "literal flesh is worthless - it is my WORDS that have Spirit and life"??

One who takes the virgin birth literally - as absolute truth?

One who takes the 7 day creation week literally - as absolute truth?

 

[Root of Jesse]

So now back to this actual thread - what is the meaning of "Catholic fundamentalist"??

One who takes John 6 literally - except for the part where Jesus explains the symbol of flesh saying "literal flesh is worthless - it is my WORDS that have Spirit and life"??

One who takes the virgin birth literally - as absolute truth?

One who takes the 7 day creation week literally - as absolute truth?

Is that what this thread is about? All I know is orthodox and unorthodox. I'm sure there are fanatics, though, in Catholicism, who think they can kill in the name of Jesus.

 

[BobRyan]

Is that what this thread is about? All I know is orthodox and unorthodox. I'm sure there are fanatics, though, in Catholicism, who think they can kill in the name of Jesus.

So then that is option 1 of the list of options for this thread. Is that the one you choose as the definition for Catholic Fundamentalists the Pope was talking about??

 

[Root of Jesse]

So then that is option 1 of the list of options for this thread. Is that the one you choose as the definition for Catholic Fundamentalists the Pope was talking about??

I don't know until I read the pope's actual words in context. Don't you understand the value of that, rather than relying on a secular news org?

 

[BobRyan]

I don't know until I read the pope's actual words in context. Don't you understand the value of that, rather than relying on a secular news org?

How then can you insist that "everybody has it wrong" when you yourself admit you don't even know what was said and thus you yourself cannot be a trusted evaluator of that statement by your own confession on that point??

That is not very compelling.

 

[BobRyan]

Francis might just get a little boost in support of his claims from this thread -
Today at 1:16 PM #1

WGW appears to be wanting to make a case that Francis' "Catholic Fundamentalists" might just love to read.

 

[Root of Jesse]

How then can you insist that "everybody has it wrong" when you yourself admit you don't know what was said???

That is not very compelling.

Experience.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Experience.

Having watched them get Francis wrong, Benedict wrong, John Paul wrong, and Paul wrong just in my lifetime, I expect the media to get it wrong far more often than they get it right. It's just normal for the media to flub when covering religion, Catholic or otherwise. There is a website (www.getreligion.com) whose sole purpose is to note the failures of mainstream media with respect to religion coverage.

 

[BobRyan]

fine - so what do you say Francis meant by the term "Catholic Fundamentalist"??

 

[chevyontheriver]

fine - so what do you say Francis meant by the term "Catholic Fundamentalist"??

At this point I honestly don't know. I could guess that maybe he's talking about people like me. But I'm not going to go off and have a silly fit about it until some time passes and I get more clarity about it. You know all about what he intended, or think you do, so you just run with it. I'll wait and see.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I do not believe that his holiness Pope Francis said the words included as a quote in the original post. For one thing his holiness rarely speaks in English and for another it is very unlikely that he would call the Catholic Church "Roman Catholic" when speaking in Italian.

Pope Francis said Monday that fundamentalism was "a disease of all religions", including the Roman Catholic Church, but had nothing to do with God.

"Fundamentalism is always a tragedy. It is not religious, it lacks God, it is idolatrous," the Argentine pontiff told journalists on the plane during his return from a trip to Africa.

Francis said Islam was not the only religion to suffer from violent extremists, such as the ones behind the deadly attacks in Paris which were claimed by the Islamic State.

"We Catholics, we have a few, even many fundamentalists.They believe they know absolute truth and corrupt others," he said, adding: "I can say this because this is my Church".

 

[steve_bakr]

from: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Vatican-religion-pope-France/2015/11/30/id/703942/


What is Francis saying about his fellow Catholics who are "fundamentalist"??

1. They are violent extremists Catholics just as we find among some Muslims?
2. Their belief in "Absolute truth" makes them like Muslim extremists even if they are not violent?

Who are these violent Catholic fundamentalists? Or is this even what he is talking about?

What is meant by a Christian Fundamentalist?

One who "believes the Bible"??

One who believes in a literal real - historic - virgin birth?
One who believes in a literal real - historic - resurrection of Christ?
One who believes in a literal real - historic - 7 day creation week?

or one who "is violent" and attributes their violence to their Christian faith no matter whether they believe in praying to Mary or not? or whether they believe in a bodily resurrection of Christ or not?

Fundamentalists are sometimes subject to the temptation of absolutist views which might be used to categorize groups of individuals as, for example, enemies.

from: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Vatican-religion-pope-France/2015/11/30/id/703942/


What is Francis saying about his fellow Catholics who are "fundamentalist"??

1. They are violent extremists Catholics just as we find among some Muslims?
2. Their belief in "Absolute truth" makes them like Muslim extremists even if they are not violent?

Who are these violent Catholic fundamentalists? Or is this even what he is talking about?

What is meant by a Christian Fundamentalist?

One who "believes the Bible"??

One who believes in a literal real - historic - virgin birth?
One who believes in a literal real - historic - resurrection of Christ?
One who believes in a literal real - historic - 7 day creation week?

or one who "is violent" and attributes their violence to their Christian faith no matter whether they believe in praying to Mary or not? or whether they believe in a bodily resurrection of Christ or not?

A lot of interesting points have been made so I will just make a brief reply.

The absolutist views of Fundamentalism subjects us to the temptation of extremism as opposed to compassion and balance.

Another temptation of Fundamentalism is a kind of wilfull ignorance, that is, a refusal of making an intellectually honest investigation of the truth.

Those who do investigate are subject to selectivism, that is, choosing facts which support their view while discarding those that do not.

I can give one example on a subject that I know quite a lot about, having studied it in depth for several years: Islam.

Those who decry Islam in its entirety as an enemy are the most ignorant about it or at least have the most skewed, incomplete, and inaccurate information about it.

Ignorance and illiteracy about the religion of Islam is an epidemic among Fundamentalists. Those Fundamentalist "experts" who are used as sources are either ignorant or dishonest.