Palisades Fire live updates: Wildfires spread in Los Angeles, prompting mandatory evacuations, as Santa Ana winds expected to intensify

[RDKirk]

I still think it's strange how the trees didn't burn.

Healthy trees not surrounded by dry brush (kindling) resist burning.

 

[RDKirk]

Building like that is probably more expensive than the usual style of US buildings of a wooden frame with cardboard sheets between them.

Not greatly so. A fire-resistant exterior (brick or stucco), no soffits or other areas for embers to enter the attic (possible in a mild climate), metal or tile roof, removing combustible materials away from the building...those are not exceedingly expensive measures in new construction.

The problem is builders will cut any cost that doesn't have a "first-buyer" payoff. They don't see any profit in "this house will have a high resale value." There would have to be some first-buyer's incentives provided by the state government or insurance companies.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Not greatly so. A fire-resistant exterior (brick or stucco), no soffits or other areas for embers to enter the attic (possible in a mild climate), metal or tile roof, removing combustible materials away from the building...those are not exceedingly expensive measures in new construction.

The problem is builders will cut any cost that doesn't have a "first-buyer" payoff. They don't see any profit in "this house will have a high resale value." There would have to be some first-buyer's incentives provided by the state government or insurance companies.

From what I understand about the passive house designs (which admittedly isn't much) that facilitate the lack of soffits, the issue is less the raw cost of construction and more with how finicky the design and construction are to get right. I'm more familiar with the principles of designing acoustically-isolated (i.e. "soundproofed") spaces, which follow similar methodologies as the passive and net-zero housing designs and, in that world, things can be pretty binary - you either did it right, or you did it wrong. I've heard it likened to an aquarium - it either leaks or it doesn't. Even if it leaks a little, it still leaks. It's much less subjective than "those walls are straight enough" or "that moulding could've been coped better." And IME, a crew that can appreciate and follow those kinds of stringent details is going to charge more than normal, if you can even find them in the first place. I've personally had designers and builders who were supposedly knowledgable and concerned with such things completely drop the ball.

On top of that, any new construction is going to be more expensive than the same house that's not brand new. (People often don't realize it, but buildings do depreciate. It's the land underneath that appreciates.) A custom house is going to be even more expensive.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Investigators study Eaton Canyon electrical tower area as possible origin of Altadena fire​

Southern California Edison officials have so far said they do not believe their electrical equipment was responsible.

Edison under scrutiny for Eaton fire. Who pays liability will be ‘new frontier’ for California​

Six years ago, Pacific Gas & Electric filed for bankruptcy after it was found liable for sparking a succession of devastating wildfires, including the blaze that destroyed the town of Paradise and led to more than 100 deaths.

Wall Street investors lost confidence and ratings agencies threatened to downgrade California’s investor-owned utilities, prompting legislators to come up with an innovative solution: the establishment of a $21-billion wildfire fund, split equally between shareholders and utility customers.

Now, after two major wildfires have destroyed thousands of homes and left at least two dozen dead in and around Los Angeles, the state’s wildfire fund would face its first major test if another utility is found liable for sparking the blazes.

Still, even if the wildfire fund bailed out Edison, there could be grave consequences for Edison and other utility companies. If a large portion of the wildfire fund’s $21 billion was depleted, that could affect market perception of the fund, negatively affect utility company credit scores, and plunge investor-owned utilities — which cover about 80% customers across the state of California — into chaos.

[SCE stock is down ~25% from before the fire.]

The causes of the fires have yet to be determined.

Investigators looking into the Eaton fire — which caused at least 17 fatalities and damaged an estimated 7,000 structures across Pasadena and Altadena — are focusing on an area around a Southern California Edison electrical transmission tower in Eaton Canyon.

The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, the municipal utility that operates in Pacific Palisades, says it did not opt into the wildfire fund because it would have been too costly for its customers. If the large municipal utility was liable for the Palisades fire, the city of L.A. could face exorbitant financial costs. [And that fire appears to have been caused by a smoldering fireworks or otherwise human-caused fire from NYE.]

 

[RDKirk]

From what I understand about the passive house designs (which admittedly isn't much) that facilitate the lack of soffits, the issue is less the raw cost of construction and more with how finicky the design and construction are to get right. I'm more familiar with the principles of designing acoustically-isolated (i.e. "soundproofed") spaces, which follow similar methodologies as the passive and net-zero housing designs and, in that world, things can be pretty binary - you either did it right, or you did it wrong. I've heard it likened to an aquarium - it either leaks or it doesn't. Even if it leaks a little, it still leaks. It's much less subjective than "those walls are straight enough" or "that moulding could've been coped better." And IME, a crew that can appreciate and follow those kinds of stringent details is going to charge more than normal, if you can even find them in the first place. I've personally had designers and builders who were supposedly knowledgable and concerned with such things completely drop the ball.

On top of that, any new construction is going to be more expensive than the same house that's not brand new. (People often don't realize it, but buildings do depreciate. It's the land underneath that appreciates.) A custom house is going to be even more expensive.

It's not as binary for a passive fire-resistant house as it is to soundproof a room. An ember isn't going to crawl around until it finds an opening with the physical inevitability of a sound wave. An ember has a distinct and short lifespan. "Ember-resistant" is easier than "water-resistant" and much easier than "sound resistant."

But, yes, designing and building a house even "water-resistant" is more expensive than building with no concern for water resistance.

You continually come up with reasons not to do things right.

 

[iluvatar5150]

It's not as binary for a passive fire-resistant house as it is to soundproof a room. An ember isn't going to crawl around until it finds an opening with the physical inevitability of a sound wave. An ember has a distinct and short lifespan. "Ember-resistant" is easier than "water-resistant" and much easier than "sound resistant."

But, yes, designing and building a house even "water-resistant" is more expensive than building with no concern for water resistance.

You continually come up with reasons not to do things right.

Oh, I would love it if everybody did things right. I'm not trying to coming up with reasons not to do things right. I, with my cynical and dim view of contractors, was merely trying to point out reasons why they probably wouldn't go right.

 

[BCP1928]

From what I understand about the passive house designs (which admittedly isn't much) that facilitate the lack of soffits, the issue is less the raw cost of construction and more with how finicky the design and construction are to get right. I'm more familiar with the principles of designing acoustically-isolated (i.e. "soundproofed") spaces, which follow similar methodologies as the passive and net-zero housing designs and, in that world, things can be pretty binary - you either did it right, or you did it wrong. I've heard it likened to an aquarium - it either leaks or it doesn't. Even if it leaks a little, it still leaks. It's much less subjective than "those walls are straight enough" or "that moulding could've been coped better." And IME, a crew that can appreciate and follow those kinds of stringent details is going to charge more than normal, if you can even find them in the first place. I've personally had designers and builders who were supposedly knowledgable and concerned with such things completely drop the ball.

On top of that, any new construction is going to be more expensive than the same house that's not brand new. (People often don't realize it, but buildings do depreciate. It's the land underneath that appreciates.) A custom house is going to be even more expensive.

And that may be the price people have to pay in order to live in what is by nature an arid brushland prone to frequent fires.

 

[RDKirk]

And that may be the price people have to pay in order to live in what is by nature an arid brushland prone to frequent fires.

We all have to pick our poisons. It's like people in Florida who build houses on offshore sand bars...and then complain that insurance won't cover them.

 

[essentialsaltes]

2 arrested for arson in separate incidents​

Later Tuesday night, crews responded to reports of a suspect setting trash on fire, police said. The fire was extinguished. That suspect said she set fires because she enjoyed causing "chaos and destruction," police said.

[The other said he liked the smell of burning leaves.]