Origen And The Early Doctrine Of Pre-mortal Existence Of Souls

[EarlyChristianresearcher]

Part 1: 12-30-2013

The Pre-existence of souls, or a pre-mortal life as spirits in a family in heaven, was and still is a belief that can be traced down through the centuries to modern times. If you believe there is a devil and fallen angels, then you will have to admit that you believe in some aspects of the pre-existence. For you might be like Tertullian, 3rd cent., who accepted the Book of Enoch as scriptures, (which is full of pre-existence themes, war in heaven, even names some of the fallen angels), but then believe, like Tertullian, that the soul and body were created at the same time. However, for some Christian writers and preachers, I've heard, say that the doctrine of the pre-existence is "Satanic" is ironic! It's laughable! Why? It's because the very mention of "Satan" or "Satanic" as a catagory, taps into a bit part of the pre-existence themes. For once you start researching & looking into where Satan came from, or the devil, & demons came from, you'll find tons of sources, art works, legends, scriptures, earlier bible illustrations, early Christian writings, etc., that include Satan, the Devil & demons, as being part of the fallen angel dramas of the pre-existence themes. You'll find mystery plays, where biblical themes were acted out in moral or mystery plays, during the middle ages, where the pre-existence was presented before creation dramas. You'll google image, and find earlier Bibles, and bible illustrations, that start with pre-existence themes, before the creation. Genesis A & B, for example, 7th to 10th centuries.

But, as pointed out here in these posts, I've enjoyed reading, different view points were also part of the package deal. Some early Christians accepted some aspects of it, while rejecting others. Some argued about it, what it meant, or were talked out of the beliefs. Later, 4th century onwards, the rejecting of Origen's interpretations of it, became a challenge in later centuries for Origenist monks. Origen's version came under attack during the Council of Constantinople of 553 AD. But, still these beliefs, or different versions of them, lived on, even the ones that black skins reflected the type of pre-mortal sins, just like "blindness" or being born blind, did in Christ's time, (John 9:2). Now these were beliefs, be they ones we reject or might accept, they were beliefs going around in Christ's time, and apparently, were passed down to later generations in Christendom. It was one of the ancients' ways of attempting to explain and justify why there were different classes & grades of the settings & circumstances that different types of people, with different types of bodies, might be born into. They were suppost to be some of the consequences of pre-mortal sins. Am I saying this is what we have to believe? No! I'm just pointing out this is what the historical records show was one of the beliefs in some aspects of the the beliefs in a pre-existence. In later centuries, such as during the 6th century, though the "anathma" threats of Emperor Justinian, might have discouraged these beliefs, that pre-mortal sins could determine the type of body that one might be born into, such as black skins, or the conditions one might be born into, such as a crippled body. Despite this council of 553, & the Emperor's threats, they still didn't prevent these views from being spread all over historic Christianity. Consequently, thousands of artists all over historic Christianity, oftened depicted what happened to the bright angels, (once good, but who sinned, rebelled against God & the pre-born Christ, & Michael the Archangel, & his hosts, during the council in heaven). For what happened, is, that the angels that sinned & rebelled against the others, they were demonified, symbolically represented, but also literally believed to actually have been blackened and turned into monsterous forms, during their fall. Some understood such things to be symbolic, like the dragon is a symbol for the devil, but he's not an actual dragon, anymore than Christ is an actual lamb. So it was known to be symbolic, but unfortunately, amongst the supertitious to be literal. This is what thousands of art works show. Again, am I saying this is official doctrine in any branch of Christendom. No, I'm pointing out what happened in later centuries, when the beliefs passed over into becoming superstitions, legends, traditions, & illustrated in minitures, paintings, illumination manuscripts & earlier bible illustrations. Plus, biblical themed mystery or moral plays, where Tanners, who tan animal skins to black colors, would play the parts of dark skin demons, or fallen angels, during mystery plays of the middle ages. (A.C. Cawley, Everyman and Medieval Miracle Plays, (London & Vermont: J.M. Dent, Charles E. Tuttle, Everyman, 1974, edition).

For me, it's interesting to see how color symbolism became literalized and legendized into Lord of the Rings type imagery, because those are fun movies and books to read and watch. Such as also the Lord of Darkness, in the movie "Legend," starring Tom Cruise. These are cases in point of the later legendizings of these earlier beliefs. But it's also sad to see how the literalization of color symbolism, eventually became racial to justify slavery, during the 17th-19th centuries. Where, because black skins were associated with the devil and demons, black skin races were too. (Marc Aronson, Race, A History Beyond Black and White, (New York: Atheneum Books, 2007).

In some areas of Christianity, the legends took on interesting folklore, of fairy type creatures, water spirits, creatures, gobblins, gouls, & strange creatures that haunt the forests, streams, rivers and lakes. This was because lore, such as those in places like Russia, said the fallen angels, fell into such areas, or crashed hard & kept going to end up in the deep places of the earth. (Like in Lord of the Rings, where Gandolf the gray, battles, like Michael the arch-angel, an ancient demon from the underworld. He defeats the demon, that reminds us of the illustrations of Dante & Milton's poetries. Gandolf ascends up, like Christ descent into hell, and resurrection, the Anastasis, coming up out of the lower realms. In like manner, Gandolf the gray, then becomes Gandolf the white, (color symbolism again, like in Whitsuntide, or Whitesunday, wearing white baptismal robes, in contrast to Black Sabbath or Black Sunday, the black robes of devil worshippers). In going down under the ground, such things might be where we get the traditional "pointing down to the ground," when we like to warn people were they'll be going, if they don't repent & accept Jesus. Plus, why thousands of depictions of Christ's descent into hell, hades, limbo, purgatory, the underworld, or Anastasis; show Christ lifting up souls out of open cracks, caves, or pits, under the ground. (Anna D. Kartsonis, Anastasis, The Making of An Image, (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1986); Alice K. Turner, 1993, The History of Hell, (New York, San Diego, U.S.A.; London, England: Harcourt Brace & Company); Darell Thorpe, Upon Them Hath the Light Shined, 1993, Kindle Edition, about 2011; Chandler Rathfon Post, A History of Spanish Painting, (Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press, 1930—1958). (New York: Kraus reprint Company, 1970's), etc.)

In earlier centuries, the early Christian apologists, Justin Martyr, Origen, & others, used the pre-existence in response to early anti-Christians, who said that God neglected others, before the time of Christ. Or that Christianity is just a poor copy of Pagan mystery religions. The answers given were: "No!" God wasn't neglectful, Christ pre-existed, and spoke to prophets in other nations. The demons heard these prophets, counterfited what was said of Christ, and came up with counterfeits that the pagans inherited. That's why there are parallels. But, apparently, early anti-Christians, like Celsus, writing AD 170-80, and other later ones, like T. W. Doane, late 19th century, rejected these answers! They then went on to mock the different aspects of the pre-existence that they knew about, as they are presented in early to later Christianity.

Other areas of research, which aren't official doctrine in anyones' churches, are those of pre-birth experiences, where the spirits of children yet to be born, appear or manifest themselves to their parents to be. Or in Near Death Experiences, where those who, say they died, be it on an operation table, or in a car crash, etc., but then come back to life. They tell us that they saw spirits waiting to be born. This is like the "chamber of souls," beliefs in Jewish & Christian writings.

An interesting fictional example of this is Shirly Temple in Blue Bird. With her brother, she goes to a place were spirits, dressed like Roman or Greek kids might, are waiting to be born.

The purpose of this post is not to try to convince anyone in accept these different versions of these beliefs, but to add on to the sources already given here, that acknowledge that the beliefs were around in the historical records.

 

[EarlyChristianresearcher]

Part 2: 12-30-2013
For me, the pre-existence offers answers about the origins of evil, the purpose of life, and about why there are parallels around the world, with Christianity. That the knowledge of Christ was known all over the world to give everyone a chance to accept Christ and be saved in their own times, lands, and languages. If not, then, were the early anti-Christians right in saying that Christ was neglectful of other nations? No, I agree with the early Christian apologists on this, Christ wasn't neglectful. However, I've heard some modern Christians say that Christ couldn't have went to other nations, or had prophets preaching about Christ's coming, in other nations, before, during & after his time. The reason being, and again they tap into the the pre-existence themes, to make their clams. The reasons are, they say, is that the nations are so paganistic, "demonic," & barbaric in their beliefs and rituals! And so they are! I agree with them about how demonic they became, but did they start out that way? Or retrogress to become that way? Especially, after rejecting Christ's true prophets, and his angels who prophesied of Christ, and after the memories of Christ's post-resurrection world wide treks to them became legendized too. But to say that Christ didn't go, or only Israel & Christians had prophets, or that no angels of God appeared to other nations, that only the demons did! Then the early anti-Christians would have a point, God would have to have been neglectful, as the critics charged. But that would also mean that the demons were able to go, but Christ wasn't, or that prophets weren't. Right? But I thought Christ had more power than the demons! Didn't he harrow hell? Didn't his post-resurrection victory march take him into all nations? As the historical early to later Christian records, art works, & later legends suggests? To me, it makes sense that Christ did pre-exist, did preach his message to pre-Christian time prophets, be it by himself, & with angels, & or through prophets which he revealed his word to. Origen, and Justin Martyr suggests these things in their answers to critics. But also do all kinds of legends and lore on Christ's goings throughout all nations do, (a subject for another time, if permitted here). But the pre-existence themes, were used as part of the early Christians' defense against charges made by early critics, like Celsus, Porphory, Julian the Apostate & others. If the doctrine became legends in Christendom, as pointed out, it must have been legendized in other cultures and nations too. For each culture has their own versions & legendized hints of a pre-mortal existence of some kind, of wounded "gods" that descend into their versions of hell, and so forth. 19th century, anti-Christian writer, T. W. Doane, brings this out in his "Bible Myths." Like Celsus, he used the parallels in other pagan nations to try to say Christianity is a copy of them. He cites John P. Lundy, a Christian writers, late 19th century, who said that the reasons why there are parallels is because Christ said he was before Abraham, if so, then he must have manifested himself to other nations, besides the Jews. Lundy used the pre-existence in his defense. Doane ignored this answer and continued to make the charge, like Celsus, that Christianity borrowed from the pagan nations around them. Thus, to me, it's interesting to see how the pre-existence themes have been used to answer early to later anti-Christian writers.


Sources to consider:

Angelo S. Rappoport, Ph. D., Ancient Israel Myths and Legends, (New York: Bonanza Books, 1987), three volumes in one.


A. S. Garretson, Primitive Christianity And Early Criticism, (Boston: Sherman, French & Company, 1912).


Carol Zaleski, Otherworld Journeys, Accounts of Near-Death Experiences In Medieval and Modern Times, (New York and Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1987).


Charles F. Horne, Ph.D., and Professor, (Editor, as well as others), The Sacred Books And Early Literature Of The East, (New York, U.S.A., and London, England: Parke, Austin, & Lipscomb, Inc., 1917).


Clifford Davidson, Editor, The Iconography of Heaven, Early Drama, Art, and Music, Monograph Series, 21, (Kalamazoo, Michigan: Medieval Institute Publications, Western Michigan University, 1994).


Colleen McDannell and Bernhard Lang, Heaven: A History, (New Haven and London: Yale University Press, 1988).


Darell Thorpe, The Pre-existence: Our Pre-earth Life As Spirits In A "Family In Heaven" (1992), Kindle Edition about 2011.


E. A. Wallis Budge, M.A. LITT.D., D.LITT., D.LIT, Coptic Apocrypha in the Dialect of Upper Egypt, (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1913), six volumes.


Ernst and Johanna Lehner, Devils, Demons, Death and Damnation, (New York: Dover Pictorial Archive Series, Dover Publishing Inc., 1971).

Francis Huxley, The Dragon, Nature of Spirit, Spirit of Nature, (New York, U.S.A.; London, England: Collier Books, A Division of Macmillan Publishing Company, Inc., CR 1979, Thames & Hudson LTD).


Gilles Quispel, The Secret Book of Revelation, (New York: McGraw-Hill Books Company, 1979).


Gustav Davidson, 1967, A Dictionary Of Angels, Including the Fallen Angels, (New York; London: The Free Press, and Collier-Macmillan Limited).


G. W. Butterworth, Origen On First Principles, (Gloucester, Massachuset: Peter Smith 1973, & Harper & Row, 1966).


Henry Ansgar Kelly, The Devil at baptism: Ritual, Theology, and Drama, (Ithaca and London: Cornell University Press, 1985).


J. Eugene Seaich, The Heavenly Council, Mysteries and Sacred Ordinances, (unpublished research paper).


Jeffrey Burton Russell, Satan, The Early Christian Tradition, (Ithaca, London: Cornell University Press, 1981). Lucifer, The Devil In the Middle Age, (Ithaca, London: Cornell University Press, 1984). The Prince of Darkness, Radical Evil and the Power of Good in History, (Ithaca, New York: Cornell University Press, 1988).


John P. Lundy, Monumental Christianity, Or the Art and Symbolism of the Primitive Church, (New York: J. W. Bouton, 1875 & 1882).


Joseph Wilson Trigg, Origen (The Bible and Philosophy in the Third-century Church), (Atlanta: 1946, 1952, 1971, 1973, & John Knox Press, 1983).


J. P. Migne, Patrologiae Cursus Completus; Series Latina, 221 volumes; (Paris: 1844-1864). Patrologia Cursus Completus, Series Graeca (Paris: 1857-1866, 161 volumes).


Linda J. Ivanits, Russian Folk Belief, (Armonk, New York & London England: M. E. Sharpe, Inc. 1989).


Louis Coulange (Father Louis Coulange), The Life of the Devil (London, England: Alfred A. Knopf, 1929, translated from the French by Stephen Haden Quest).


Nigel Morgan, Early Gothic Manuscripts, II, 1250 - 1285, A Survey of Manuscripts Illuminated in the British Isles - General Editor: J. J. G. Alexander, (London: Harvey Miller, 1988). Morgan and Richard Marks, The Golden Age of English Manuscript Painting, 1200-1500, (New York: George Braziller, 1981).


Paul Carus, Dr., The History Of The Devil And The Idea Of Evil, From the earliest times to the present, (La Salle, Illinois: Open Court Publishing Company).


R. H. Charles, Dr., The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1913).


R. Joseph Hoffmann, (translator) Celsus On The True Doctrine, (A Discourse Against the early Christians), (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1987).


R. G. Hamerton-Kelly, (Professor of the New Testament McCormick Theological Seminary, Chicago), Society for New Testament Studies Monograph Series 21, Pre-Existence, Wisdom And The Son of Man, A Study of the Idea of Pre-existence in the New Testament, (Cambridge University Press; Cambridge, Great Britain, 1973).


R. Mcl. Wilson, The Gospel Of Philip, (London: A.R. Mowbray).

Richard Laurence, LL.D., (Trans.) The Book of Enoch The Prophet, (Re-issued: Williams & Norgate, 1892).


Robert Hughes, Heaven and Hell in Western Art, (New York: Stein and Day/Pub., 1968).


Robert Louis Wilken, The Christians As The Romans Saw Them, (Yale University Press; New Haven and London, 1984).


Stephen Benko, Pagan Rome And The Early Christians, (Indiana: Indiana University Press, 1984).


T. W. Doane, Bible Myth, And Their Parallels In Other Religions, (New York: The Truth Seeker Company, 1882 & 1910).


W. H. C. Frend, Martyrdom & Persecution In The Early Church, (Garden City, New York: Anchor Books Doubleday & Company, 1967).


Willis Barnstone, (Editor), The Other Bible, (San Francisco, California: Harper & Row, 1984).


John Lawrence Mosheim, D.D., An Ecclesiastical History, (London: 1819, Translated by Archibald Maclaine), 6 volumes.


The Ante-Nicene Fathers = TANF. A set of volumes on the writings of the early Christians before the Nicene Creed era of A.D. 325. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: T & T Clark, Edinburgh, W. M. B. Eerdmans Publishing, reprinted October 1989), nine volumes.


The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, (Grand Rapids, Michigan: W. M. B. Eerdmans, reprinted April 1986), fourteen volumes.


John Milton, Paradise Lost, or Paradife Loft in Twelve Books, (London: S. Simmons, Printer, 1674).


Dante Alighieri, 1265-1321 AD, The Divine Comedy.


E. and M. A. Radford, The Encyclopedia of Superstitions, (new York, New York: MetroBooks, 1961 edition).


Eric Maple, Supersitions and The Superstitious, (New York: South Brunswick, A. S. Barnes and Company, 1971 & 1972).


Google images: Christ's descent into hell, hades, limbo, purgatory, the Anastasis.


Google images: Bible illustrations of the war in heaven, michael fighting dragon, fall of angels.

 

[Denys]

Hello Christos Anesti –

Most the scholars I'm aware of point to the pre-existence of souls as ... being an artifact of his adherence to neo-platonic philosophy. This isn't simply the opinion of Orthodox scholars who want to discredit his view either. I've also read books by authors that were very supportive of Origen and his teaching that noted that his belief in pre-existence were based on his platonic philosophical suppositions. Not to mention the scholars who really don't care one way or the other regarding the truth of theory who claim that it was due to neo-platonic influence.

Indeed, from all the evidence and scholarly discussion, this would seem to be the case.

St Maximus the Confessor gently 'corrected' certain errors in Origen's somewhat overt Platonism, and I think it's agreed that St Maximus respected Origen, but had to do so because his followers were pushing the teaching close to an heretical extreme.

 

[pshun2404]

POST ONE OF TWO

I thought I’d offer a bit of balance to the opinions on Origen since he was correct on many, many things; He was very, very influencial in early Christianity and one of the greatest of the early theologians. When you hear of him being called a Heretic, remember that it was three centuries AFTER Origen’s death that the Emporer-Politician issued his Anathematisms (543 a.d.) which gave him that label of heretic and the reasons for anathematisms had mixed motives.


One might keep in mind that the very doctrine of Pre-mortal Existence of souls which christos Anesti mentioned WAS PERFECTLY ORTHODOX IN JUDAO-CHRISTIANITIES OF THE FIRST CENTURY and, as the Roman Church moved away from such doctrines it only BECAME IN LATER CENTURIES, heretical, whereas it was once orthodox.


I think this SPECIFIC mistake by the Roman Church was one of it’s greatest errors of theological history and reminds me of the error the Roman Church made in imprisoning Galileo for teaching that the Earth was not the center of the Universe.

Just as history vindicated Galileo and his discoveries that proved to be true, Historians of early Christianities have similar reason to honor Origen as he became vidicated for the things he got right such as the doctrine of Pre-Mortal existence of Souls.

Pre-mortal existence of Souls was one of several authentic early doctrines whose abandonment has caused endless headaches, confusion and arguments among philosophers and theologians that the early Christians were not subject to before the doctrine was abandoned.

Many, many, many of the earliest Judao-Christian sacred Texts, relate the expansive doctrine of the pre-mortal realm and the nature of spirits there and God’s purposes for creation. The theme of pre-creation and what happened there is written into the early sacred texts, their hymns contain the doctrine; virtually ALL of the ascension literature contains the doctrine, the war in heaven texts certainly contain the doctrine; the earliest liturgies contain the doctrine; the midrashic texts contain the doctrine, the Jewish Haggadah contains the doctrine, the Zohar contains it; the testament literature is full of it. One simply cannot READ the earliest sacred Judao-Christian texts without reference to this early Christian doctrine. This vast early literature is part of the context for early christians and illuminates their understanding of biblical texts that reference this pre-creation time period and what happened there.


For examples :

Enoch, in his vision of pre-creation heaven, relates : The great scribe Enoch is commanded by the angel to : In his vision the angel bids Enoch, “Come and I will show you the souls of the righteous who have already been created and have returned, and the souls of the righteous who have not yet been created.” After seeing various souls, a midrashic explanation is given us by Enoch regarding these many souls The vast ascension literature, describes the pre-creation realm of spirits. Abraham, in his ascension Vision describes the unnumbered spirits he sees, many of whom are waiting to come into mortality. The angel says to Abraham : The doctrine of pre-mortal existence of the spirits within men permeates the Old Testament biblical text as well. A knowledge of this simple principle explains and underlying so many of the quotes in many other texts as well. In the Old testament it was said : “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (ecclesiates 12:7). This principle is mirrored in multiple other early Judao Christian texts as well : When God the Father commands the son to “Go, take the soul of my beloved Sedrach, and put it in Paradise.” The only begotten Son said to Sedrach, “give me that which our Father deposited in the womb of your mother in your holy dwelling place since you were born.” (The Apocalypse of Sedrach 9:1-2 and 5). When the Son finally DOES take the Soul of the Mortal Sedrach, he simply takes it back to God “where it came from”. It is simply a rephrase of Ecclesiates 12:7. And this principle is repeated in many different texts. The Early Christian usage of Ecclesiates 12:7 was used in this same way by the Apostle Peter as he explained to Clement that "This world was made so that the number of spirits predestined to come here when their number was full could receive their bodies and again be conducted back to the light." (Recognitions)

Under this early context, the question God asked Job was NOT rhetorical, but it was a reminder : Under the early context, Job KNEW the answer when God asked where Job was when God laid the foundations of the earth “and all the sons of God shouted for joy”. The texts are explicit that the spirits were taught regarding God’s plan to send the spirits of men to earth. They knew they would undergo a fall of Adam and Of the pre-mortal Redeemer. Seth relates this time period when these sons of God shouted for Joy. The redeemer said regarding this time period before creation in a assembly of spirits : In explaining the relationship of this life to the pre-mortal realm of spirits, the messiah explained The early doctrine of Pre-mortal existence of the spirits of men took the arbitrariness out of God have created spirits unequally. IN this model, the spirits are partly responsible for their nature upon entering this life. Instead of arbitrarily creating spirits with defects (which spirits may be punished for later), in this early christian context, the Lord creates the body in relationship to certain characteristics the spirit has already obtained (or did not obtain) in it’s heavenly abode over vast periods of time. For example from the testament literature : In the context of the spirit of man existing long before other spirits, Jewish Haggadah relates that This it the very same teaching the Apostle Peter taught Clement in the Clementine Recognitions, (remember, Clement was ALSO in the earlier New Testament Canon), the apostle Peter tells the young christian convert Clement about the pre-earth council and man’s place within this plan : This principle (that man’s spirit pre-exists the creation) was one of the FIRST things the Apostle Peter teaches Clement. I believe there is a reason for this. Perhaps, for such theists, the key to understanding what God is doing with mankind is contained inside of the concept that we are eternally spiritual.

POST TWO OF TWO FOLLOWS

None of these quotations are Biblical...they are in fact all apocryphal...the Apostles never taught this, Jesus never mentions it, no other church writer talks about it before him, and it only appears in the Latin version of his earlier Greek work (possibly added by Rufinus)...why is it even given any credence?

 

[Rigel1]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone had noticed the article entitled "What Came Before the Angels" on this web site (.....). I would have given you the link, but apparently not permitted, so just type in the article title, with the inverted commas - the search engine will then search for the entire phrase rather than the individual words.

Cheers.

 

[Percivale]

In Jesus time, the Sadducees did not believe in pre-existence; they didn't even believe in life after death. The Pharisees probably did not either, as they were looking forward to a resurrection.

My main problem with pre-existence is its implications for resurrection of the body, which is a major theme in the NT. I love the natural creation, including my body, which God declared very good, and which he promises to redeem and perfect. Belief systems involving pre-existence too often devalue the natural world, seeing it as a prison or limitation of the soul, sometimes going so far as to declare all matter evil. I can't buy that. If there is a version of belief in preexistence that affirms the value of the body and the earth, and if there is evidence for it, I'd be open to it. It is interesting how wide-spread those sorts of beliefs are, and how near death experiences seem to support them too.

If matter is eternal, God is still. responsible for processing it using the Big Bang and controlling it with the laws of nature. Matter being eternal or not has no relevance to the origin of evil--matter is neutral. And if evil was eternal it would have an independent claim to existence and could not be condemned as evil, which it can if it is the distortion or negation of God's design by a being God created.

 

[Rigel1]

Hello Percivale,

Not meaning to be too picky, but do you have any proof that neither the Sadducees nor the Pharisees believed in pre-mortal existence?
Also, Would you please advise what a resurrection has to do with pre-existence.

Also, you said, ”My main problem with pre-existence is its implications for resurrection of the body, which is a major theme in the NT.”
Yes, one of the major themes in the NT is the resurrection, but that theme relates to a resurrection to immortal life in a spirit body, not a physical body:-
1Cor 15:50 “flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God”.
2Pet 3:10 “…The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.”

Ultimately, no matter how much we may like the physical, we are told it is going to go.

Cheers.

 

[Percivale]

According to all three synoptics and Acts, the Sadducees believed there is no resurrection--nor angels or spirits, Acts adds. If there are no spirits, they can't pre-exist, and if there is no life after death, why would there be before birth? I don't know what Pharisees believed about pre-existence, but in the story the Sadducees told Jesus (the widow with seven husbands) it seems they represented their opponents (probably the pharisees) as believing in a physical afterlife.

Jesus, after his resurrection, made a point of proving to his disciples that he was not a ghost, having them touch him and watch him eat. Paul and John say that Jesus' resurrected life is the kind we will have--it is different from our current bodies, but resembles them, it still in some sense physical. And there will be a new earth, not just new heavens.

 

[Rigel1]

God, through Paul, roundly rejected the doctrines of the Sadducees, so their opinions counts for nought.

To me when God says that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven" it is pretty clear that it talking about a physical existence. However, if you want to believe otherwise, then by all means go for it.

As for Christ not being a ghost, angels can manifest themselves in physical form if they wish, but they are still spirit beings. I think Christ can do more than angels and being able to manifest as a physical being would be a very small thing for him. However, if you wish to believe that Christ is some form of physical being, then you are free to do so.

Also, there is nothing in the Bible to say that the "new earth" will support physical life. Are we going to be immortal physical beings? This is news.