One Quaran burned, several dead

[TheReasoner]

Well, the American pastor who wanted to burn the quaran did so. IN resulting protests UN employees were killed.

Is it OK to do such things as this when one knows the outcome can and probably will be fatal for other people? Putting oneself at risk is one thing, but others?
Should we continue burning Muslim books and drawing Muhammad when the price is death for others? Should we, in line with our history risk more terror, the deaths of others, estrangement and even wars for the principle of free speech and freedom of religion?
What do you think?

 

[Blackwater Babe]

I maintain that the burning of the Koran was a stupid and pointless protest, however lets all remember that the people who ran amok and killed people did so of their own free will.

I find all this extremely ironic, given Islam's stance on idolatry. It's a book. It has no intrinsic value beyond what people give it. Burning it, or burning 100 of them doesn't do anything to the people who believe in it. All this carry on over the Koran, bekieving it is somehow a "special" object, is idolatry, pure and simple.

 

[TheReasoner]

I maintain that the burning of the Koran was a stupid and pointless protest, however lets all remember that the people who ran amok and killed people did so of their own free will.

I find all this extremely ironic, given Islam's stance on idolatry. It's a book. It has no intrinsic value beyond what people give it. Burning it, or burning 100 of them doesn't do anything to the people who believe in it. All this carry on over the Koran, bekieving it is somehow a "special" object, is idolatry, pure and simple.

Personally I agree on all counts.

To elaborate, and pardon the strong words; I think the burning was petty, disrespectful and outright stupid. I think it's stupidity was totally outclassed by the inane response - using violence against people in no way related to an action against which they feel revulsion is totally unacceptable and vile. As would any use of violence even against the pastor himself. Violence is in itself vile. IMHO.

 

[John Jay]

Well, the American pastor who wanted to burn the quaran did so. IN resulting protests UN employees were killed.

Is it OK to do such things as this when one knows the outcome can and probably will be fatal for other people? Putting oneself at risk is one thing, but others?
Should we continue burning Muslim books and drawing Muhammad when the price is death for others? Should we, in line with our history risk more terror, the deaths of others, estrangement and even wars for the principle of free speech and freedom of religion?
What do you think?

One Koran burned, dozens dead.

On the other hand, thousands of Bibles burned, no one harmed.

Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com

That's the difference between Islam and Christianity.

That church shouldn't have burned the Korans but let's be honest. This is Islam we're talking about. If it hadn't been the Korans, it would be something else.

Muslims don't kill people because they're offended that somebody burned a Koran. They kill people because the Koran tells them to kill people.

 

[Upisoft]

Well, the American pastor who wanted to burn the quaran did so. IN resulting protests UN employees were killed.

Is it OK to do such things as this when one knows the outcome can and probably will be fatal for other people? Putting oneself at risk is one thing, but others?
Should we continue burning Muslim books and drawing Muhammad when the price is death for others? Should we, in line with our history risk more terror, the deaths of others, estrangement and even wars for the principle of free speech and freedom of religion?
What do you think?

Millions of people are burning cows on their BBQ. Should they stop doing so, because other people believe that cows are sacred?

People are free to do everything if it is in the boundaries outlined by the law. Burning books is lawful, killing people is not.

Would you stop posting here if someone said he will start killing people if you don't stop posting? If that was not enough and that person now demands that you stop breathing, will you stop breathing to save more people from death? Where is the boundary when limiting your freedom under criminal threats is acceptable? I say there is no such boundary. It is bad to limit your freedom. You are not responsible for the criminal actions of other people. Doing bad to stop bad things is still bad, it is never gonna miraculously transform into good thing.

 

[TheReasoner]

One Koran burned, dozens dead.

On the other hand, thousands of Bibles burned, no one harmed.

Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com

That's the difference between Islam and Christianity.

That church shouldn't have burned the Korans but let's be honest. This is Islam we're talking about. If it hadn't been the Korans, it would be something else.

Muslims don't kill people because they're offended that somebody burned a Koran. They kill people because the Koran tells them to kill people.

Well, more than that. Observe the differences between Jesus and Mohammad. Mohammad was a war leader, a man who ordered the deaths of entire tribes who opposed him. Jesus died for those who did not even know Him.

I know who I prefer as a role model

That said, I feel I must emphasize that Jesus did also love the Muslims and that while we may despise these militant actions we should neither discriminate against or hate the Muslims. Not even the ones responsible. The acts, yes. Not the people.
IMHO.

 

[plindboe]

One Koran burned, dozens dead.

On the other hand, thousands of Bibles burned, no one harmed.

Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com

That's the difference between Islam and Christianity.

No. The difference is 500 years. Had this been 1511 and had bibles been burned countless people would have been tortured and burned at the stake. Read your history books. When your religion was in power the world wasn't exactly a jolly place.

It's not so much the religions that differ, but the fact that Christianity has been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21th century. The islamic world still need their Enlightenment.

That said, while the people who burned the Quran were christian fundy idiots, I do believe that the cure to Islam's oversensitivity is valid criticism and yes, even mockery and disrespect. Personally I prefer to apply the former approach, but that doesn't mean I'll dismiss the others as approaches that can't have long-term beneficial effects.

Peter

 

[Blackwater Babe]

No. The difference is 500 years. Had this been 1511 and had bibles been burned countless people would have been tortured and burned at the stake. Read your history books. When your religion was in power the world wasn't exactly a jolly place.

It's not so much the religions that differ, but the fact that Christianity has been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21 century. The islamic world still need their Enlightenment.

That said, while the people who burned the Quran were christian fundy idiots, I do believe that the cure to Islam's oversensitivity is valid criticism and yes, even mockery and disrespect. Personally I prefer to apply the former approach, but that doesn't mean I'll dismiss the others.

Peter

Not even as long ago as that. Do you realise the last auto de fe took place in 1850? Thats only barely out of living memory! And for those of you who don't know what an auto de fe is, you're lucky. Please don't google it, its one of those things you will wish you'd never heard about, and as yet we don't have brain bleach.

 

[Satt]

No. The difference is 500 years. Had this been 1511 and had bibles been burned countless people would have been tortured and burned at the stake. Read your history books. When your religion was in power the world wasn't exactly a jolly place.

It's not so much the religions that differ, but the fact that Christianity has been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21th century. The islamic world still need their Enlightenment.

That said, while the people who burned the Quran were christian fundy idiots, I do believe that the cure to Islam's oversensitivity is valid criticism and yes, even mockery and disrespect. Personally I prefer to apply the former approach, but that doesn't mean I'll dismiss the others as approaches that can have long-term beneficial effects.

Peter

You just made me wonder...what would have happened in 1511 if the internet would've been around?

 

[KarateCowboy]

Well, more than that. Observe the differences between Jesus and Mohammad. Mohammad was a war leader, a man who ordered the deaths of entire tribes who opposed him. Jesus died for those who did not even know Him.

I know who I prefer as a role model

That said, I feel I must emphasize that Jesus did also love the Muslims and that while we may despise these militant actions we should neither discriminate against or hate the Muslims. Not even the ones responsible. The acts, yes. Not the people.
IMHO.

Not them but the Devil acting through them?

 

[buKareem]

I don't know who is more stupid the pastor or the killers. The pastor burnt the verses that describe Jesus as blessed being, knowing the unseen, healer of hoples patients and a creator !!
The killers forgot that Yazeed Ibn Moaweya has burnt the Kaba in Mecca, and they call him the Khalifa!!
They forgot about Alwaleed who has ripped the Quran apart by an arrow, and they call him Khalifa !!

 

[Satt]

I don't know who is more stupid the pastor or the killers. The pastor burnt the verses that describe Jesus as blessed being, knowing the unseen, healer of hoples patients and a creator !!
The killers forgot that Yazeed Ibn Moaweya has burnt the Kaba in Mecca, and they call him the Khalifa!!
They forgot about Alwaleed who has ripped the Quran apart by an arrow, and they call him Khalifa !!

You don't know who is more stupid?!?! Let's see...Burning paper vs. MURDER...gee, I just can't figure it out. /sarcasm

 

[plindboe]

Not even as long ago as that. Do you realise the last auto de fe took place in 1850? Thats only barely out of living memory! And for those of you who don't know what an auto de fe is, you're lucky. Please don't google it, its one of those things you will wish you'd never heard about, and as yet we don't have brain bleach.

Thank you, that's a good point. The difference between modern Christianity and Islam is probably less than a couple of centuries.

You just made me wonder...what would have happened in 1511 if the internet would've been around?

Another interesting point. I'd love to see Europe a few hundred years ago suddenly being confronted with so-called heretical ideas from around the globe via the internets.

Peter

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

One Koran burned, dozens dead.

On the other hand, thousands of Bibles burned, no one harmed.

Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com

That's the difference between Islam and Christianity.

That church shouldn't have burned the Korans but let's be honest. This is Islam we're talking about. If it hadn't been the Korans, it would be something else.

Muslims don't kill people because they're offended that somebody burned a Koran. They kill people because the Koran tells them to kill people.

QFT. Good post. Well said.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Muslims don't kill people because they're offended that somebody burned a Koran. They kill people because the Koran tells them to kill people.

"And if a person burns a Quran thousands of miles away you shall find a completely unrelated person in your country and kill them". I think I remember that somewhere in my Muslim training. Or maybe not?

 

[John Jay]

No. The difference is 500 years. Had this been 1511 and had bibles been burned countless people would have been tortured and burned at the stake. Read your history books. When your religion was in power the world wasn't exactly a jolly place.

The difference is that in one case you have men acting against what the Bible teaches and in the other you have men acting in obedience to what the Koran teaches.

The Bible never told them to burn anybody. It said to seperate from them, speak out against them and let God take care of the punishment when they stand before Him.

 

[John Jay]

"And if a person burns a Quran thousands of miles away you shall find a completely unrelated person in your country and kill them". I think I remember that somewhere in my Muslim training. Or maybe not?

"Slay the infidel wherever you may find him".

 

[Ishraqiyun]

"Slay the infidel wherever you may find him".

Which infidels? You posted a single sentence without context.

 

[wanderingone]

Well, the American pastor who wanted to burn the quaran did so. IN resulting protests UN employees were killed.

Is it OK to do such things as this when one knows the outcome can and probably will be fatal for other people? Putting oneself at risk is one thing, but others?
Should we continue burning Muslim books and drawing Muhammad when the price is death for others? Should we, in line with our history risk more terror, the deaths of others, estrangement and even wars for the principle of free speech and freedom of religion?
What do you think?

While I think burning books as some proof of how useless or dangerous you think they are is an ignorant act, I don't accept that his doing so is fatal for other people. What was fatal for those who died were the acts of the equally ignorant and far more insane who find the object that relays their faith more valuable than human life.

 

[JGG]

I fall into the "both sides are pretty much stupid" camp. I cringe at the burning of any book. But the pastor had a right to burn it as part of his right to free speech. He had the right to do it, even if he knew it would upset Muslims. It's stupid and selfish, but he has a right to be stupid and selfish as well as long as all that got burned was a book.

I'm upset at the burning of a book too, but to get so upset that people die over it is several steps beyond ridiculous. In the end, it's these extremists who killed people for such a trivial thing, not the guy who burned a book.