On the sinfulness of the LGBT path.

[durangodawood]

Homosexuality is deviant.....

Sure. But despite its pejorative connotations, "deviant" isnt actually the same as "wrong".

....Biologically humans are male and female and a pairing of the two sexes is what naturally propagates the species.....

Now this does worry me re homosexuality, seeing as how we are rapidly running out of people on planet earth.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

it is natural and yes mountain goats do

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing …

 

[Belk]

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing …

I guess that passage was not about homosexuality then since it is so natural even mountain goats engage in it.

 

[SilverBear]

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing …

natural (φυσικὴν) relations. φυσικὴν - something natural for the individual, something inborn

Contrary to nature παρὰ φύσιν - singular possessive contrary to their individual nature, not contrary to nature

 

[jayem]

"Of all the sexual aberrations, celibacy is perhaps the most unnatural"

---Remy de Gourmont
French poet, 1858-1915

 

[fat wee robin]

I would be sinful for me to engage in homosexual acts. I don't know about others and I think that is probably between them and God. However, I know that Jesus commands me to treat them with love, no matter what they get up to in the bedroom.

With all due respect, what open sin is she living in? She's faithful to me. Is it her fault that she's attracted to women?

The thing someone who is injured and someone who is homosexual have in common is that it's something that is entirely out of their control. They can't really help their circumstances, can they?

As for the significance of my relationship, your opinion has been duly noted and discarded.

Since she is not practising any deviant sexuality ,what she has is a wound ,which might be healed by your love in the long term .

 

[fat wee robin]

just like being left handed or having blue eyes


except it is normal. it a normal variation on human sexuality. just like being left handed or having blue eyes are normal variations.

But to be christian is to overcome the lower nature which leads to death and perversion , and a pre -christian world .

 

[fat wee robin]

How have all of Judaic-Christian society's alleged "advancement in society in science and modern life" improved life's central problem, in regards to the suffering associated with old age, illness, and death? Buddhism has certainly addressed the latter, in my personal experience.

If anything, all of the alleged scientific advancements in life has increased the amount of suffering in the world, from my point of view.

Well give it up then , and live in pre -christian Indian conditions . There are more people on earth surviving having come up from 'hell' in the last 2000 years because of Christ .
But it is true I do not have conventional views on life and death ,but what I do know and can prove is that Buddhism cannot survive without the benefits of christian modern life ,and what you are going to is not a happy place .
As far as I know even the Dalai Lama has considered Buddhism as useless or such .

I don't practice Tibetan buddhism, and believe it to be largely false.

How has all of this improved life's central problem, in regards to the suffering associated with old age, illness, and death?

Whether one has wealth or extreme poverty, live in an ordered society or a disordered society, there still exists suffering associated with old age, illness, and death.

Well I am no longer in any way afraid of death ,suffering ,and am getting better in my old age .

 

[SilverBear]

But to be christian is to overcome the lower nature which leads to death and perversion , and a pre -christian world .

love is not lower nature or a perversion

 

[ananda]

what I do know and can prove is that Buddhism cannot survive without the benefits of christian modern life

What is "Christian modern life"?

As far as I know even the Dalai Lama has considered Buddhism as useless or such

That's nice, he's entitled to his personal opinion.

 

[fat wee robin]

love is not lower nature or a perversion

Possibly defective?
Seems that God would straighten that out later?

We on the mountain do not question God.

M-Bob

Thats right ,we have a better view ,but some have a view from down below in the pit .

 

[Galdrun]

Since she is not practising any deviant sexuality ,what she has is a wound ,which might be healed by your love in the long term .

I think everyone has deep wounds and burdens they have to carry, but I don't agree with you on your assessment of her sexuality reflecting any wounds she might have (which I know of). She's felt this way her whole life, and has hid it from her family for fear of what they might have done if they ever found out.

That said, if she ever did "snap out of it" and turn straight, it's irrelevant to me. She makes me a happy guy, and my love is unconditional. =)

 

[fat wee robin]

Interesting. Should one always side with the bible when they are met with things that don't jive with it that they face in day to day life?

My convictions do not only come from the Bible .But I do not like the tenor of the post ,as you asked Christians to give their opinion ,which you seem to disdain , preferring that of others who do not even believe in any power beyond themselves .

This humanist false belief has brought destruction to societies since forever ,and it ishappening again, this false idea propagated in the West , that we are our own masters .This is an illusion which will be destroyed , just in the same way the cancer cell that lives in your body ,(we all have a few ) when the mind ,heart or system is not functioning as it should be, take advantage and propagate, at an even faster rate than ordinary cells . They then take over the body , but in killing the body having nothing on which to feed ,as they are parasites who do not exist without the body on which they feed .
The 'body ' on which they feed, is the original creation of man and woman .There is nothing else that is permanent .

 

[Galdrun]

My convictions do not only come from the Bible .But I do not like the tenor of the post ,as you asked Christians to give their opinion ,which you seem to disdain , preferring that of others who do not even believe in any power beyond themselves .

This humanist false belief has brought destruction to societies since forever ,and it ishappening again, this false idea propagated in the West , that we are our own masters .This is an illusion which will be destroyed , just in the same way the cancer cell that lives in your body ,(we all have a few ) when the mind ,heart or system is not functioning as it should be, take advantage and propagate, at an even faster rate than ordinary cells . They then take over the body , but in killing the body having nothing on which to feed ,as they are parasites who do not exist without the body on which they feed .
The 'body ' on which they feed, is the original creation of man and woman .There is nothing else that is permanent .

My apologies if that's how I come across. What I am after are talking points on the subject at hand, but I have little interest in sardonic condescension, such as @Hazelelponi offer.

Just curious, but what makes it an illusion, and why is it harmful? With pedophilia I can understand, as a child is harmed. Even with addictions I can understand, as I can witness the harm one inflicts on themselves. With two grown adults who just want to live their lives, though, how are their actions harmful? I live around and work with homosexual people every day and I fail to see how their actions are harmful in any actual way.

You mention that it humanism has caused destruction before. Could you give some examples? Thanks!

 

[fat wee robin]

My apologies if that's how I come across. What I am after are talking points on the subject at hand, but I have little interest in sardonic condescension, such as @Hazelelponi offer.

Just curious, but what makes it an illusion, and why is it harmful? With pedophilia I can understand, as a child is harmed. Even with addictions I can understand, as I can witness the harm one inflicts on themselves. With two grown adults who just want to live their lives, though, how are their actions harmful? I live around and work with homosexual people every day and I fail to see how their actions are harmful in any actual way.

You mention that it humanism has caused destruction before. Could you give some examples? Thanks!

Marxism is humanist ,nearly all homosexuals are basically atheist ,even if they are afraid of death which makes them cling to a false idea of Jesus .Atheists ar often humanist as they believe often in non created evolution ,so they think they have total control over their destiny -a short term idea which ends in societies coming to an end ,often abruptly .
When God allows humanity to become rich and prosperous they always start to doubt God and many deny Him so cutting themselves off from the source of all life ,et puis, boom .!!!
Christians, most off them are doing a very bad job of drawing in those with good hearts and minds ,repeating from the same recipe book ,when we are in another age .
Yes the basic laws of God are the same forever ,but in a new age there will be a different emphasis .The Piscean Age was about love unconditional ,Agape ,while Aquarius is about knowledge .Those who are truly 'saved ' aleady, will fully benefit from the new world, as they are in Christ and know right from wrong automatically ,while those who seek to use science and other knowledge for their own Vanity, will perish in the not too distant future .
PS the sun sign of pisces begins arond the 16th of March -15th April approx .
and aquarius 15th Feb.- 15 th March appprox .

Ps. I do not accept that you should be Rude to Hazelponi , as she was just trying to help ,and if you cannot accept anything which does not totally agree with your view ,then you will not go far spiritually .As someone said we are all sinners ,but some recognise that ,and others don't. Those who don't are very dangerous for humanity, as they are blocked into their egotistical rigid narcissism .

 

[Galdrun]

Marxism is humanist ,nearly all homosexuals are basically atheist ,even if they are afraid of death which makes them cling to a false idea of Jesus .Atheists ar often humanist as they believe often in non created evolution ,so they think they have total control over their destiny -a short term idea which ends in societies coming to an end ,often abruptly .
When God allows humanity to become rich and prosperous they always start to doubt God and many deny Him so cutting themselves off from the source of all life ,et puis, boom .!!!
Christians, most off them are doing a very bad job of drawing in those with good hearts and minds ,repeating from the same recipe book ,when we are in another age .
Yes the basic laws of God are the same forever ,but in a new age there will be a different emphasis .The Piscean Age was about love unconditional ,Agape ,while Aquarius is about knowledge .Those who are truly 'saved ' aleady, will fully benefit from the new world, as they are in Christ and know right from wrong automatically ,while those who seek to use science and other knowledge for their own Vanity, will perish in the not too distant future .
PS the sun sign of pisces begins arond the 16th of March -15th April approx .
and aquarius 15th Feb.- 15 th March appprox .

Ps. I do not accept that you should be Rude to Hazelponi , as she was just trying to help ,and if you cannot accept anything which does not totally agree with your view ,then you will not go far spiritually .As someone said we are all sinners ,but some recognise that ,and others don't. Those who don't are very dangerous for humanity, as they are blocked into their egotistical rigid narcissism .

Hmmm... Honestly, Marxism is a very flawed system in my opinion. Then again, so is capitalism and socialism. I've always felt each system has it's strengths and weaknesses, though I'm not sure Marxism has enough strengths to justify it's implementation. Curious - what about Marxism do you find inherently humanist? Also, do you feel Marxism represents humanist ideals in general? After all, many of the founding fathers were also humanists, following the age of enlightenment.

As for homosexuals and atheism, I can only speak from my own experiences as a straight guy. With gay friends and family I've known, they aren't necessarily atheist. My girlfriend believes, I think, but she hasn't gone to church in a while. I've asked her if she'd like to go, but she hasn't wanted to just yet. I feel it's important to ask big and uncomfortable questions, so we'll see what happens in the future. We certainly have a lot of different churches to choose from where we live, heh.

Curious, but you seem to mention star signs and such. What are your thoughts on astrology, and how do they fit into your faith? Also, what are some ways in which science would be used for the sake of vanity?

As for @Hazelelponi, I have no problem, or even dislike for her. That's not why I'm here. I don't care about being right or wrong on an internet discussion - my interests are in answers. If someone offers me insults instead of answers, then I really don't know what value their conversation brings to the table. Still, I would like to know in what ways you feel I have been rude to her. I haven't blocked her, and if she feels that she wants to expand more on her points, she's welcome, IMO.

 

[FireDragon76]

Marxism is humanist ,nearly all homosexuals are basically atheist

About half of gays and lesbians identify as Christian.

Atheists ar often humanist as they believe often in non created evolution ,so they think they have total control over their destiny -a short term idea which ends in societies coming to an end ,often abruptly .

You know, it is possible to be both Christian and humanist. I would describe my own religious tradition as humanistic, in fact.

 

[fat wee robin]

My apologies if that's how I come across. What I am after are talking points on the subject at hand, but I have little interest in sardonic condescension, such as @Hazelelponi offer.

Just curious, but what makes it an illusion, and why is it harmful? With pedophilia I can understand, as a child is harmed. Even with addictions I can understand, as I can witness the harm one inflicts on themselves. With two grown adults who just want to live their lives, though, how are their actions harmful? I live around and work with homosexual people every day and I fail to see how their actions are harmful in any actual way.

You mention that it humanism has caused destruction before. Could you give some examples? Thanks!

Hmmm... Honestly, Marxism is a very flawed system in my opinion. Then again, so is capitalism and socialism. I've always felt each system has it's strengths and weaknesses, though I'm not sure Marxism has enough strengths to justify it's implementation. Curious - what about Marxism do you find inherently humanist? Also, do you feel Marxism represents humanist ideals in general? After all, many of the founding fathers were also humanists, following the age of enlightenment.

As for homosexuals and atheism, I can only speak from my own experiences as a straight guy. With gay friends and family I've known, they aren't necessarily atheist. My girlfriend believes, I think, but she hasn't gone to church in a while. I've asked her if she'd like to go, but she hasn't wanted to just yet. I feel it's important to ask big and uncomfortable questions, so we'll see what happens in the future. We certainly have a lot of different churches to choose from where we live, heh.

Curious, but you seem to mention star signs and such. What are your thoughts on astrology, and how do they fit into your faith? Also, what are some ways in which science would be used for the sake of vanity?

As for @Hazelelponi, I have no problem, or even dislike for her. That's not why I'm here. I don't care about being right or wrong on an internet discussion - my interests are in answers. If someone offers me insults instead of answers, then I really don't know what value their conversation brings to the table. Still, I would like to know in what ways you feel I have been rude to her. I haven't blocked her, and if she feels that she wants to expand more on her points, she's welcome, IMO.

If you look at your posts you will see the endings were cutting .
Humanism is the belief that man has no need of God ,and is capable of making 'Heaven on earth ' through his own efforts .Communism and Nazism two sides of the same coin .
Well the Soviet Union no longer exists , neither does eastern Germany ,in China it will disappear, as no society which denies God lasts very long .North Korea and South different .
As for capitalism ,it is Simply a way of organising the use of money for bigger projects and in itself it is neutral .It it abused but then humanity does that abuses that which good ,and poisons it .
I don't think you have read the gospel of John -a good start as I will not have time in the near future to answer more questions .I am not in America,and am European in outlook .I think America is truly great for somethings ,but for some it is dire eg ,Here is it against the law to leave someone in danger or in trouble without contacting help -you can go to jail for , but chez vous it is the opposite .

You are leading the way in perversions because you put the individual good above the collective ,while in France ,Spain ,Ireland etc the opposite was true at least until George Soros and friends set about creating moral anarchy .

 

[SilverBear]

Marxism is humanist ,nearly all homosexuals are basically atheist ,even if they are afraid of death which makes them cling to a false idea of Jesus .

First i am failing to see any connection Marxism has with anything being discussed here.

Second, i think you are rather misinformed about the spiritual and religious beliefs of gays and lesbians.

Atheists ar often humanist as they believe often in non created evolution ,so they think they have total control over their destiny -a short term idea which ends in societies coming to an end ,often abruptly

How?

Yes the basic laws of God are the same forever ,

Yep, that is why Christians never eat shrimp, get tattoos or wear poly cotton blend clothes.

 

[Galdrun]

If you look at your posts you will see the endings were cutting .
Humanism is the belief that man has no need of God ,and is capable of making 'Heaven on earth ' through his own efforts .Communism and Nazism two sides of the same coin .
Well the Soviet Union no longer exists , neither does eastern Germany ,in China it will disappear, as no society which denies God lasts very long .North Korea and South different .
As for capitalism ,it is Simply a way of organising the use of money for bigger projects and in itself it is neutral .It it abused but then humanity does that abuses that which good ,and poisons it .
I don't think you have read the gospel of John -a good start as I will not have time in the near future to answer more questions .I am not in America,and am European in outlook .I think America is truly great for somethings ,but for some it is dire eg ,Here is it against the law to leave someone in danger or in trouble without contacting help -you can go to jail for , but chez vous it is the opposite .

You are leading the way in perversions because you put the individual good above the collective ,while in France ,Spain ,Ireland etc the opposite was true at least until George Soros and friends set about creating moral anarchy .

Sorry for the late reply. Lots of stuff going on for me lately!

Hmmm... Personally, I would say fascism and Marxism are quite different as far as humanism is concerned. Nazi Germany was two thirds protestant, and one thirds catholic. As for Marxism and humanism, it's true that most communist countries have been oppressive against religious people. I don't think humanism has much to do with communism, however, as Marxist ideology has more of an anti-theistic approach. Humanism in itself is independent of that system. For example, Norway and Iceland are democratic socialist countries that operate using humanistic ideals while the majority is still christian (by two thirds).

As for my posts being cutting, that was not my intention. I felt I was being disrespected, and rather than getting upset and arguing, I wanted to stop that direction of the conversation and refocus back onto the topic at hand. Like I said before, I'm here for discussion. I'm not interested in being right - only in seeing other people's perspectives. =)

By the way, what do you mean about putting the individual good above the collective, and why is it perverted?