On submission in the bible

[Goodbook]

what are your thoughts on this?
It does say wives, submit to your husbands. And also to submit to each other.

As singles, we dont have spouses to submit to, what do you think submission is? I think people have a wrong idea of what it is.

To me, submission means acknowldeging each other, like you would submit a letter or proposal for approval. To NOT be submissive would be like just ignoring that persons feelings and rushing ahead and doing your own thing. I dont think it means 'do what your told'. In a marriage both need to agree or at least acknowledge each other...because they are one flesh and making joint decisions.

I guess its easy for us single people to submit to God cos Hes always around to answer us and talk to. But to submit to a husband I think takes a lot of patience and probably a it harder I think. To constantly have his wellbeing on your mind. Its like a whole ministry of just one person...24/7?

 

[Miss Spaulding]

Personally, I almost have zero qualms with the 'wives submit to your husbands' command in the Bible. But I will say this:

I feel there is no balance when it comes to that bit in the Scriptures. One side completely disregards it, and the other takes the verse so far out of context that it's nothing short of destructive. We either have A) Christian marriages where the wives run their husbands ragged, always have the last word no matter what, and blatantly disrespect their husbands by constantly treating them as stupid, incompetent, and childish; or B) Christian marriages where the wife is so ultra submissive and trusting that her 'hubby' is pulling a wool of her eyes every opportunity that he gets, and there's no shortage of opportunities in such marriages. ...Basically...the latter produces your 'Anna Duggar'.

I have seldom observed a marriage whose union is an accurate and balanced portrayal of 'wives submit to your husbands'. Very, very seldom.

 

[Tom Mix]

I feel that if I ask my wife to go make me a sandwich that she does it happily and when she tells me she is going shopping and she needs some money that I need to do some overtime so she can go shopping.

Basically when you get married they become one and they need to treat each other as if it is them that is asking.

It also means do not cut each other off as there are needs and the other does not need to go looking elsewhere because their partner is providing.

 

[Cearbhall]

what are your thoughts on this?
It does say wives, submit to your husbands. And also to submit to each other.

Does anyone expect ancient Middle Eastern men to have written anything else? I suppose it was my Catholic upbringing, but I always looked at everything in a cultural context. I wasn't told to assume that every verse was without error.

As singles, we dont have spouses to submit to, what do you think submission is? I think people have a wrong idea of what it is.

To me, submission means acknowldeging each other, like you would submit a letter or proposal for approval. To NOT be submissive would be like just ignoring that persons feelings and rushing ahead and doing your own thing. I dont think it means 'do what your told'. In a marriage both need to agree or at least acknowledge each other...because they are one flesh and making joint decisions.

This sounds fine to me. Unfortunately, most people who care about that verse don't seem to interpret it that way.

 

[High Fidelity]

The important part to remember is that though the wife is to submit to the husband, the husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the Church.

That, to me, implies that regardless of submission, there should always be love and respect which further implies that it isn't something to be abused as authoritative.

If anything, the woman is getting the better 'deal'! That or we hold a low view of Christ's love for the Church.

 

[Rhamiel]

it says that wives should submit to their husbands like the Church submits to Christ

and it says for husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the Church

how did Christ love the Church?
He gave His life to save the elect

so the Christian ideal is for Wives to submit to their Husbands
and for Husbands to put their Wives first

 

[Hawthorne]

This passage has been the subject of so much needless debate and controversy. I think St. John Chrysostom's words in his Homily on Ephesians exegete the text nicely and clearly.

Pay attention to love’s high standard. If you take the premise that your wife should submit to you as the church submits to Christ, then you should also take the same kind of careful, sacrificial thought for her that Christ takes for the Church. Even if you must offer your own life for her, you must not refuse. Even if you must undergo countless struggles on her behalf and have all kinds of things to endure and suffer, you must not refuse. Even if you suffer all this, you have still not done as much as Christ has for the church. For you are already married when you act this way, whereas Christ is acting for one who has rejected and hated him. So just as he, when she was rejecting, hating, spurning and nagging him, brought her to trust him by his great solicitude, not by threatening, lording it over her or intimidating her or anything like that, so you must also act toward your wife. Even if you see her looking down on you, nagging and despising you, you will be able to win her over with your great love and affection for her.

 

[Rhamiel]

lol I did not see Patrick post that
well said sir

 

[Goodbook]

I think submission does imply that husbands are to take the lead to protect their wives. Like Jesus leads us and loves us, it would be awful for a husband to do all these loving things for his wife and then his wife constantly rejecting him.

The only issue seems to be if the husband is not christian or acting as an unbeliever. That would be very hard to do, I mean sometimes its hard to submit to God but imagine submitting to someone who didn't have your best interests at heart and was not even loving.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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[Pink Spider]

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[blackribbon]

There is a HUGE difference between "obedience" and "submission". We are to be obedient to our parents when we are children...but the Bible never implies women are supposed to be "obedient" to their husbands.

Why is submission such a controversial We submit to our bosses, our teachers, heck...the lady at the driver's licence office that we don't know her name. Submission is choosing to follow someone's direction. In the Biblical case, women are suppose to acknowledge the man as the head of the family ... not because they are superior but rather because God has designated them to that role (so it is also submission to God's direction). If the woman is doing this and the man is doing his job (which is to show unconditional love to his wife), marriage can't be filled with strife but rather would be the joy God designed it to be.

 

[Miss Spaulding]

^Regardless of whether or not there is harmony in the marriage in the area of the wife submitting to her husband/the husband loving his wife, there can always be 'strife' in the marriage.

This particular Biblical command is not as cut and dry as you make it. And yes, I'm fully aware that you were once married and acknowledge that you have a very different perception on marriage due to your experience. However, the bottom line is: human beings are complicated and bring senseless complication to things that shouldn't need to be complicated... It is what it is.

*Although, I still stand by my view that a 'somewhat' harmonious balance can be achieved in a marriage in regards to this Biblical command.

 

[blackribbon]

People can disagree without having "strife". If the dynamics are in place for both parties to be respectful and a plan for how decisions are made (someone has to be the tie breaker), then you will not have "strife".

Change it to a job situation, there is a boss. He/she is the person who has to make the ultimate decision in some way, shape or form. It may be that" "I am letting Megan make the decision"...but he/she is calling the shots. If people don't respect the boss or his right to make the decisions, there will not be peace at the work place. If people really show respect (submission rather than obedience), then tensions won't rise even when people don't always agree with the ultimate decision.

 

[Sketcher]

All Christians, single or married, are called to submission:

So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy,complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. - Philippians 2:1-8​

We are called to be Christlike, that includes the humility and submission described here. We need to be ready to put ourselves second and meet situational needs that we come across. If you're on a team, you make sacrifices for the team - you practice or research or whatever it is, even if you would rather spend the time goofing off. If you have a dog that needs to go out when you're watching TV, you walk the dog. If someone needs a hand and you have the time and the ability to help them and it's well within reach for you, you help them out. These are all examples of submission at work in every day life, and we as Christians are supposed to get better at it. Therefore, when you get around to marrying, you should already be decently practiced at this, humility and service should have become more of who you are at the heart level, so that you do this for your spouse as well. Wifely submission is how wives express this ethic in their relationships with their husbands. Male headship is how husbands express this same ethic to their wives.

 

[Blue Wren]

A Christian friend, she posted this article, below, on my Facebook, because we were talking about submission, there. I thought that it was good. There has been, strongly felt comments, on my Facebook, about submission & Christians, this week. There had been something, about a Baptist lady, who had been abused, herself, in her youth, by her father, not taking action, to protect her daughter, from her husband’s mistreatment. That family, they believe, in the wife, submitting, to the husband, being his helpmeet. I do not think, submission, should be something, that is permanent, in a marriage. If the husband, if his behaviour, is not Biblical, and he is not submitting, to the laws, then the wife, should not submit, to him. Her duty, it is to her children’s welfare. She should never permit, her husband, to mistreat them. That is enabling his behaviour, to the detriment, of her, her children. That does not honour Christ.

All the talk, about submission, in the past few days, on my Facebook, it has been unfortunate. Most of my friends, they are not Christians. They saw this, as promoting abusive & dysfunction. It repels them, from Christianity. It is a pity. I think, the article, it makes some clarity. It seemed to help a little.

http://www.girlsgonewise.com/7-misconceptions-about-submission/

 

[Messy]

If a guy says he wants a submissive wife he's a control freak. Nothing wrong with submission, like at a job, if it's a people manager, great. If it's a control freak, great, I'm not married to you anyways.

 

[quietpraiyze]

what are your thoughts on this?
It does say wives, submit to your husbands. And also to submit to each other.

As singles, we dont have spouses to submit to, what do you think submission is? I think people have a wrong idea of what it is.

To me, submission means acknowldeging each other, like you would submit a letter or proposal for approval. To NOT be submissive would be like just ignoring that persons feelings and rushing ahead and doing your own thing. I dont think it means 'do what your told'. In a marriage both need to agree or at least acknowledge each other...because they are one flesh and making joint decisions.

I guess its easy for us single people to submit to God cos Hes always around to answer us and talk to. But to submit to a husband I think takes a lot of patience and probably a it harder I think. To constantly have his wellbeing on your mind. Its like a whole ministry of just one person...24/7?

I think a lot of people associate submission with marriage only because that's how many people preach it, but I believe submission starts with God through Jesus Christ when we're Born Again. Our foundation for submission comes through being in right relationship with God. From there the Word then shows how submission is to be practiced whether it be with one another as Believers, employer/employee, husband/wife, child/parent and such. So to me submission is really part of the way we live our lives in Christ on a daily basis because you're talking about the heart, motives, preferring someone before yourself, laying down your life, not always trying to get your way, etc. At least that's the way I know it to be in simplicity...

 

[Messy]

what are your thoughts on this?
It does say wives, submit to your husbands. And also to submit to each other.

As singles, we dont have spouses to submit to, what do you think submission is? I think people have a wrong idea of what it is.

To me, submission means acknowldeging each other, like you would submit a letter or proposal for approval. To NOT be submissive would be like just ignoring that persons feelings and rushing ahead and doing your own thing. I dont think it means 'do what your told'. In a marriage both need to agree or at least acknowledge each other...because they are one flesh and making joint decisions.

I guess its easy for us single people to submit to God cos Hes always around to answer us and talk to. But to submit to a husband I think takes a lot of patience and probably a it harder I think. To constantly have his wellbeing on your mind. Its like a whole ministry of just one person...24/7?

Wives obey your husband just simply means do as you're told. One of the reasons I love being single.

 

[Messy]

I feel that if I ask my wife to go make me a sandwich that she does it happily and when she tells me she is going shoppingand she needs some money that I need to do some overtime so she can go shopping.

Basically when you get married they become one and they need to treat each other as if it is them that is asking.
It also means do not cut each other off as there are needs and the other does not need to go looking elsewhere because their partner is providing.

I think that's culture.
I would feel really bad if I wanted to buy stuff for myself and he has to work extra. I'd be like: lazy woman go work yourself or just don't buy stuff for yourself.
If he told me to fix his food I'd feel like a maid.
If my kids throw their stuff everywhere and expect me to clean it up I tell them that I'm not their house maid.