Nudes and Medical Profession

[Eudaimonist]

Is it possible to become a competent medical illustrator by only drawing cadavers? Also, some nursing programs use nudes in labs. Is this essential?

Let's say that it wasn't necessary. So what? Why not use living persons?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[SallyNow]

A coworker was telling me that his wife's nursing class was going to have male nudes.

Nursing is a medical profession. As such, it is going to involve nude people of all sorts.

As for nudes in an artistic setting, yes, they are necessary for advanced human drawing technique.

 

[quatona]

A coworker was telling me that his wife's nursing class was going to have male nudes.

And you have a problem with that? Why?

If we don´t presuppose the ability to frame the meaning of nudity (and physical contact) in dependance on the situation we can close down practical medicine and some other professions altogether.

If we assume that his wife is unable to switch off her focus on sexuality in this professional context, she´s heading for the wrong job anyways. In my opinion it would be preferable to find out about that now during her classes rather than in the real situation.

But it´s actually pointless to argue before you have even told us what problem you see with the class "having male nudes".
I also wonder whether the fact that they are "male" is essential to the problem you perceive.

 

[Old Man Turtle]

I’m a nurse. Let me weigh in on this...Nursing instruction really does not take place in the lab...

So, getting back to my original question. Are nudes necessary in the anatomy lab? From what you've said, it appears to be no. Also, would nudes in anatomy lab be vulgar in your opinion?

 

[Old Man Turtle]

...Although, as to nudes in the lab, that's kinda odd....

Numerous nurses have conveyed the same to me. Having said this, based on the need for real bodies, as you've indicated, why do you consider nudes to be "kinda odd" in the lab?

 

[The Princess Bride]

Numerous nurses have conveyed the same to me. Having said this, based on the need for real bodies, as you've indicated, why do you consider nudes to be "kinda odd" in the lab?

Well...depends on if you mean clinical lab or school lab.

Obviously definition here is the key.

I can't even think of a reason why any 'patient' (volunteer) would have a need to be completely nude in the school lab setting. MAYBE by some remote chance in the simulation lab it could be required, but the odds of that are small.
Plastic surgeons and Dermatologists are the only two that come to mind that would have the 'need' of nudes in a school lab setting...

Clinical lab, yeah, some people are just going to be in their birthday suit with no warning. Havent seen a lady giving birth yet fully clothed...

Perhaps the original indication of the type of 'lab' was misconveyed?

 

[flicka]

The OP was asking about being a medical illustrator. I agree than anyone working in the medical profession and deals with people should be intimately familiar with living bodies, but I'm not sure how much experience they need to draw body parts. But most artists do draw nudes at some point or another.

 

[RavenPoe]

Considering most artistic professions have a bit of drawing live nudes, and a medical illustrator would have to draw the human body, I'd think the need to draw a nude body would be a hundredfold more.

Why do you find it more acceptable for them to work with a naked dead body than a naked live body? Both are nude.

I don't find nudes vulgar at all. I find the attitude that something is wrong with nudes to be vulgar. The body is the greatest work of art of the greatest artist, yet people feel it a horrible thing to see it. I say we move class to the clothing-optional beach!

 

[Old Man Turtle]

...
I can't even think of a reason why any 'patient' (volunteer) would have a need to be completely nude in the school lab setting....MAYBE by some remote chance in the simulation lab it could be required, but the odds of that are small.
Plastic surgeons and Dermatologists are the only two that come to mind that would have the 'need' of nudes in a school lab setting...

Clinical lab, yeah, some people are just going to be in their birthday suit with no warning. Havent seen a lady giving birth yet fully clothed...

Part of this question may be sociological. As our society becomes increasingly pornographic, the shock factor of nudity is diminished; thus, the increasing acceptance of nudity in the anatomy lab. A conservative society, right or wrong, wouldn't allow nudes in the labs.

Look, I'm just telling you how it is. Universities such Southern Oregon University use nudes in the nursing labs. This is where my friend's wife is a nursing student, mentioning to him that there would be male nudes in the lab.

The University of Arkansas also uses nudes in their medical programs.

 

[JadeTigress]

Part of this question may be sociological. As our society becomes increasingly pornographic, the shock factor of nudity is diminished; thus, the increasing acceptance of nudity in the anatomy lab.

Maybe I'm just weird, but i don't see how there's a "shock factor" with a nude body, in a lab setting as a teaching aid, doing nothing sexual whatsoever. Now, if you walked into class and there was an orgy going on on the table, I could see the shock factor in that.

 

[Imaginosis]

Part of this question may be sociological. As our society becomes increasingly pornographic, the shock factor of nudity is diminished; thus, the increasing acceptance of nudity in the anatomy lab. A conservative society, right or wrong, wouldn't allow nudes in the labs.

In the news, a high school art teacher was fired for suggesting to some of his students that they should draw nudes to improve their drawing skills, especially applicable for those pursuing art degrees. Nudity in the name of art/ medicine, despite being sanctioned by "higher education" is a very sensitive issue. Yes, high school seniors will be drawing nudes within a year or two after graduation at universities, but never suggest to them to draw nudes, for whatever reason, if you value your job.

 

[quatona]

I am all for nudity to lose its "shock factor " (given there has ever been such).

 

[TheManeki]

Part of this question may be sociological. As our society becomes increasingly pornographic, the shock factor of nudity is diminished; thus, the increasing acceptance of nudity in the anatomy lab. A conservative society, right or wrong, wouldn't allow nudes in the labs.

I'm a little skeptical of this assertion linking pornography to the shock value of nudity. After all, nudists don't seem to be overcome by lustful thoughts at a nudist colony.

Perhaps it should be something more like "As people in our society become more comfortable with their and others' bodies, the shock factor of nudity is diminished."

 

[OdwinOddball]

Perhaps it should be something more like "As people in our society become more comfortable with their and others' bodies, the shock factor of nudity is diminished."

Far more correct, but this does not itself convey the shock factor and appeal to emotion that someone making the original statement is likely to want.

Much easier to get an agreement if you try to guilt people into it.

 

[OdwinOddball]

To the OT...
The human body is nothing to be ashamed of. We are long past the time for nudity taboos to fade away. They are a remnant of our patriarchal past.

If one is going to be drawing the human body inside and out for medical reasons, they better have an excellent knowledge of the human body and all its magnificent variety, including the parts some religions deem as icky.

 

[TheManeki]

To the OT...
The human body is nothing to be ashamed of. We are long past the time for nudity taboos to fade away. They are a remnant of our patriarchal past.

If one is going to be drawing the human body inside and out for medical reasons, they better have an excellent knowledge of the human body and all its magnificent variety, including the parts some religions deem as icky.

They could always blur out the "yucky bits" or put a "verboten" sticker over them.

 

[OdwinOddball]

They could always blur out the "yucky bits" or put a "verboten" sticker over them.

Excellent idea. If I ever have prostate problems I'd definitely want a doctor who had no accurate drawings of the prostate and male genitalia working on me.

 

[MrPirate]

So, getting back to my original question. Are nudes necessary in the anatomy lab? From what you've said, it appears to be no. Also, would nudes in anatomy lab be vulgar in your opinion?

Nudes are never vulgar. They just are.

And after you have seen as many naked people as I have…you really don’t notice anymore. When I see someone naked or scantily dressed I just start doing a skin assessment or looking for good places to start IV’s


I recall a joke made at our graduation commencement….”You know you’re a nurse when you’ve seen more moons than the Hubble Telescope.”

 

[MrPirate]

Numerous nurses have conveyed the same to me. Having said this, based on the need for real bodies, as you've indicated, why do you consider nudes to be "kinda odd" in the lab?

Maybe the issue is confusion by he phrase “in the lab”

To my expense the “lab” was a room on campus between the rooms used for nursing instruction set up to resemble a hospital ward. There were hospital beds, a nurses station, medicine carts, crash carts, a supply closet and mannequins (sometimes rather scary mannequins) in a few of the beds. The room was used very little because of my schools emphasis on clinical time. For two years we spent 24 hours a week in the hospital working as nurses.

Is the person you are speaking to using “lab” to mean a clinical setting? In which case one should expect to see allsorts of people in all stages of undress as is part of the job.

 

[MrPirate]

Part of this question may be sociological. As our society becomes increasingly pornographic, the shock factor of nudity is diminished; thus, the increasing acceptance of nudity in the anatomy lab. A conservative society, right or wrong, wouldn't allow nudes in the labs.

Look, I'm just telling you how it is. Universities such Southern Oregon University use nudes in the nursing labs. This is where my friend's wife is a nursing student, mentioning to him that there would be male nudes in the lab.

The University of Arkansas also uses nudes in their medical programs.

Since when is nudity pornographic?