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New Papal Preacher Promotes Homosexuality

JimR-OCDS

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To be celibate is to be unmarried. To be chaste is another matter. One can be celibate and unchaste. I have zero evidence on the chastity or unchastity of Fr. Pasolini.
Here's what we know about Teilhard De Chardin....

Celibacy in the priesthood equals chastity as well. I challenge you to ask a priest if
chastity is necessary for a priest.


Chastity is lived according to your state in life. As a Discalced Carmelite Secular, I
made a vow of chastity. That is, living a married life according to the teachings of the
Catholic Church for married couples.
 
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chevyontheriver

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You have no evidence of this, just opinion based on prejudicial information. FYI, I've seen the arguments against him
before.
OK. Your opinion differs from mine.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Here's what we know about Teilhard De Chardin....

Celibacy in the priesthood equals chastity as well. I challenge you to ask a priest if
chastity is necessary for a priest.
Let’s ask that Grindr priest.
Chastity is lived according to your state in life. As a Discalced Carmelite Secular, I
made a vow of chastity. That is, living a married life according to the teachings of the
Catholic Church for married couples.
Agreed. Chastity for you and I ought to look different from chastity for a celibate priest. It ought to anyhow. I know a married Ordinariate priest who just had another baby. That’s the result of chastity between him and his wife.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Let’s ask that Grindr priest.

Agreed. Chastity for you and I ought to look different from chastity for a celibate priest. It ought to anyhow. I know a married Ordinariate priest who just had another baby. That’s the result of chastity between him and his wife.
Grindr priest? Yeah there's a reliable source. LOL

As was posted, "chastity is lived according to your state in life."
 
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chevyontheriver

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JimR-OCDS

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He is a priest in good standing according to his bishop in the La Crosse WI diocese.

Hopefully.
Grindr is a location-based social networking and online dating application targeted towards gay and bisexual men, and transgender people. It was one of the first geosocial apps for gay men when i…
Wikipedia
 
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chevyontheriver

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Grindr is a location-based social networking and online dating application targeted towards gay and bisexual men, and transgender people. It was one of the first geosocial apps for gay men when i…
Wikipedia
I know. And a priest was caught using the app in Washington DC. He was the chief administrator for the USCCB until he got caught. Now he is a parish priest in La Crosse Wisconsin. There were lots of concerns at the time about privacy for priests.
 
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RileyG

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Grindr priest? Yeah there's a reliable source. LOL

As was posted, "chastity is lived according to your state in life."
It actually happened. ***shudder***

Grindr is what gay men use for anonymous hook ups.
 
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RileyG

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I know. And a priest was caught using the app in Washington DC. He was the chief administrator for the USCCB until he got caught. Now he is a parish priest in La Crosse Wisconsin. There were lots of concerns at the time about privacy for priests.
Yikes! He’s still serving? NOT good!
 
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RileyG

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Grindr is a location-based social networking and online dating application targeted towards gay and bisexual men, and transgender people. It was one of the first geosocial apps for gay men when i…
Wikipedia
My brother uses that app and tinder. It’s how he met most of his ex-boyfriends. Without ranting, one of his ex boyfriends lived with us and stole from my parents and other relatives. And he still habitually cheats on his current boyfriend tsk tsk tsk
 
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fide

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Teilhard De Chaden should've been made a Doctor of the Church long ago.

In WWI, being a priest, he did not carry a gun and served as a stretcher bearer where he saw the worst of war,
as if there was any good in that war.

His life was that of a saint and scientist which he linked together. He was also part of the team that
discovered "Peking Man." in China.

His theory on evolution is one I agree with. He said that humans evolved biologically quickly until about 10,000
years ago. Then, biological evolution slowed way down. However, intellect and spirituality evolved quickly
and continues even today.
Jim, how did you fit together your Carmelite spirituality with Teilhard's? They sound completely incompatible to me.
 
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fide

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The newly appointed preacher to the papal household has a record of downplaying the Church’s teaching on homosexuality, saying that the Bible condemns homosexual acts only because the Scriptural authors could not view homosexuality as an “orientation,” a concept that did not exist “in the culture of that time.”

On November 9, the Holy See press office announced the change of an era in the Vatican with Father Roberto Pasolini, O.F.M. Cap appointed as preacher to the papal household, and thus replacing Cardinal Raniero Cantalamessa

Cantalamessa, now aged 90, arrived as preacher to the Pope in 1980 and has remained in this position during three pontificates, gradually becoming an internationally recognizable figure and having more recently joined attacks against the traditional Mass.

However, his successor appears set to usher in an era of preaching to the Vatican which questions the Church’s teaching on homosexuality.

Earlier this year, Pasolini delivered a talk on the topic of homosexuality and Christian life in which he echoed much of the confusing rhetoric currently emanating from the Vatican on the question.

Continue reading at LifeSite News
Here are some reflections of Dr. Robert Moynihan of Inside the Vatican, from his Letters:
Letter #50, 2024, Monday, November 18: Pasolini
Ok -- fasten your seatbelts... we're in for a somewhat bumpy ride.

A ride I would prefer not to begin.

I would prefer to avoid the "insanity" -- meaning, precisely, things "not sane," not healthy ("sanus" in Latin means "healthy") — like speculations about the sexual life of Jesus and Lazarus, and the Apostles.

After incessant speculation throughout our society, including over such matters, one longs for simple things, sensible things, non-crazy things.

Yet here we go.

A 53-year-old Franciscan friar and biblical scholar has just been named the "Preacher of the Pontifical Household."

His style of preaching is said to "address issues related to human existence and faith, while making them relevant to contemporary issues and trends."

Here is the essence of the problem.

If one addresses "issues related to human existence and faith" by "making them (those issues) relevant to contemporary issues and trends," one inevitably distances oneself from the way these issues were seen by Christ, the Apostles, St. Paul, and the Church Fathers.

This way of looking at things in a way that is "relevant" to "contemporary issues and trends" may be called "presentism." Why? Because "in literary and historical analysis, presentism is a term for the introduction of present-day ideas and perspectives into depictions or interpretations of the past." (link)

"Presentism" regards the criteria of "today," of our "present times," as decisive.

But the Catholic way of seeing things has always believed that what is decisive is how things were seen in the time of Christ, and just after Christ, that is, how Christ, the Apostles, St. Paul, and the Church Fathers, saw things.

This modern trend of judging things according to "the criteria of our time" may also be called "modernism," and modernism implies, inevitably, a departure from the apostolic criteria, criteria which from the beginning have been decisive for Christians.

This "presentism," this "modernism," is a hermeneutic which draws us away from the apostolic way of understanding, interpreting, and believing.

Back to Father Pasolini.

People watching his videos, reading his writings, noticed that he regularly allows his mind to wander through the pathways of the Scriptures to ask questions like whether or not:

— the stories of David and Jonathan

— the story of Jesus and the friend he raised from the dead, Lazarus

— the story of the Roman Centurion and his servant (the servant whom Jesus healed from a distance)

may have involved homosexual attraction and behavior.
Dr. Moynihan then quoted from Michael Haynes in his Lifesite essay, and then continued with his [Moynihan's] own thoughts:

The essence of the problem is that the entire "mens" (mind, worldview, mental outlook) of Western culture has, to put it in terms that Americans may understand, blown two tires on the passenger side of the car, so that the vehicle of our collective mind is now resting motionless, tilted down to the right, in the highway breakdown lane, on the rims of two popped and collapsed tires, rims which will simply shred through the rubber if we try to keep driving before we put on two fully blown up spares and get the vehicle righted again, balanced again.

This means we cannot move this vehicle -- this cultural world, this "woke post-Christian West" — without replacing the two blown tires completely -- without changing half of our "mens," half of our entire worldview, half of our entire mental structure.

In other words, we have a trip-stopping problem, a problem which is a virus of the mind, a problem of how we see the world which has seeped into the mind of almost every single one of us, and is making it impossible for us to see things in the simple light of reason and common sense.

Past centuries did not have to speculate on whether Jesus and Lazarus may have had a homosexual relationship, but for an ordinary, studious Italian Franciscan friar of today, there is almost no way to avoid speculating about the matter as part a spiritual reflection.

We are now in the late twilight of Christendom.

Night has been descending for two-plus centuries, since the "Endarkenment" of the French philosophes and the French Revolution which grew out of their thought.

The shadows have been lengthening since Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris became the Revolution’s "Temple of Reason" in 1793, 231 years ago. The following is a historian's summary reconstruction of what happened:

It was the 10th of November 1793 when an attractive young opera singer was carried on a palanquin to the doors of the Notre Dame Cathedral. The singer – scantily clad and bearing the pike of Jupiter – was to play the part of Liberty in one of the strangest performances the 600-year-old Catholic Cathedral would ever witness. Entering through the central doors, she walked down the long aisle of the great Cathedral to her stage – a paper-mache “mountain” which had been erected in the Cathedral’s nave. Around the mountain stood a troupe of ballet dancers, all bearing torches in her honor. On the top of the mountain sat a small Greek temple with the words “To Philosophy” inscribed on it. The singer seated herself below the temple as the gathered crowd sang hymns in her honor – “Thou, Saint Liberty, inhabit this temple, Be of our nation the Goddess,” they cried. When the songs concluded, the singer climbed to the Greek temple, turned to the crowd, and smiled. Uproarious cheers erupted, thus completing the transformation of France’s leading Cathedral into the Revolution’s Temple of Reason. (link)

This was a false Reason.

The true Reason, the Logos, incarnate in Christ, the Word of God, the Reason of God, the Meaning of God, the ordered sanity of the personal mind, has been eclipsed by veils and shadows and idle speculations.


We must return to the holy Logos, source of all being and all reason, and allow our own minds to be renewed into His.

This somehow should be the burden of the daily and hourly preaching at the summit of the Church in Rome, which is supposed to be the summit of Christ's Church.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Jim, how did you fit together your Carmelite spirituality with Teilhard's? They sound completely incompatible to me.
Carmelite Spirituality and Jesuit Spirituality are Christ centered.

I don't see a conflict between knowing about Teilhard De Chardin and OCDS spirituality.
 
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fide

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Carmelite Spirituality and Jesuit Spirituality are Christ centered.

I don't see a conflict between knowing about Teilhard De Chardin and OCDS spirituality.
Carmelite spiritualty seeks union with the God of Holy Scripture. Teilard was seeking union with the consciousness of the cosmos, as I remember him. A sort of pantheism, it seemed to me.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Carmelite spiritualty seeks union with the God of Holy Scripture. Teilard was seeking union with the consciousness of the cosmos, as I remember him. A sort of pantheism, it seemed to me.
Carmelite Spirituality seeks union with the living God. As Jesuit, Teilhard sought no different.

Here is part of the article I posted earlier;


Cardinal Ratzinger in his book The Spirit of the Liturgy incorporates Teilhard's vision as a touchstone of the Catholic Mass:[51]

And so we can now say that the goal of worship and the goal of creation as a whole are one and the same—divinization, a world of freedom and love. But this means that the historical makes its appearance in the cosmic. The cosmos is not a kind of closed building, a stationary container in which history may by chance take place. It is itself movement, from its one beginning to its one end. In a sense, creation is history. Against the background of the modern evolutionary world view, Teilhard de Chardin depicted the cosmos as a process of ascent, a series of unions. From very simple beginnings the path leads to ever greater and more complex unities, in which multiplicity is not abolished but merged into a growing synthesis, leading to the "Noosphere" in which spirit and its understanding embrace the whole and are blended into a kind of living organism. Invoking the epistles to the Ephesians and Colossians, Teilhard looks on Christ as the energy that strives toward the Noosphere and finally incorporates everything in its "fullness". From here Teilhard went on to give a new meaning to Christian worship: the transubstantiated Host is the anticipation of the transformation and divinization of matter in the christological "fullness". In his view, the Eucharist provides the movement of the cosmos with its direction; it anticipates its goal and at the same time urges it on.
And

Cardinal Avery Dulles said in 2004:[52]

In his own poetic style, the French Jesuit Teilhard de Chardin liked to meditate on the Eucharist as the first fruits of the new creation. In an essay called The Monstrance he describes how, kneeling in prayer, he had a sensation that the Host was beginning to grow until at last, through its mysterious expansion, "the whole world had become incandescent, had itself become like a single giant Host". Although it would probably be incorrect to imagine that the universe will eventually be transubstantiated, Teilhard correctly identified the connection between the Eucharist and the final glorification of the cosmos.
Let us know if you have a problem with Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) or Cardinal Dulles as well as Teilhard De Chardon.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Let us know if you have a problem with Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) or Cardinal Dulles as well as Teilhard De Chardon.
Though I respect the rest of what Ratzinger and Dulles were about, here they are babbling strange stuff.
 
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lismore

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Hello! There's a word I heard used on a Christian podcast lately: obfuscation.

the action of making something less clear and less easy to understand, especially intentionally

Perhaps these are the days we're living in, that many Church Leaders may try to obfuscate clearly defined issues. God Bless You All :)
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Wolseley

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;) chevy, you and me, we're Baltimore Catechism kinds of guys....maybe we dont understand, but we're not any the less saved than them what floats around in the ecclesiastical stratosphere.

Let them indulge in their crystal glasses of Theologiae Exaltae '63. I'll come by and pick you up, and we'll go have a couple bottles of Carpenter's Common Beer. I have it on good authority that it was first brewed by the Boss Himself. ;)
 
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