How long have I been on this board, off and on over the years? 20, 23 - something like that. And that was after 7 on WBS Christian board.
(you never heard of the Webchat Boardcasting System ? - Well, I help build the internet ok?)
Anyway....
Pushing 30 years defending Christianity on the internet. I'm old. I mean, I'm measuring the days I have left. And God's already taken a couple of serious swings at me already. (Duck 'em all)
You'd think I could let this stuff go.
But I
Just
Can't
Take
the
Lying
Anymore
Bwap: Nothing personal, I'm sure you're a victim to the bad Cathethisis that is happening and called out sooooo often on this board.
But.....(correction in line)
Yes, I do, I studied Catholic Sacraments in Benedictine Preparatory High School. I have a solid understanding of marriage as a sacrament, and it has very little to do with sex.
Which brings me to:
Not even close. Marriage, as a sacrament, is ministered by the two people being married, that much is true. (In this case, "ministered" is an actual Catholic term for who is actually preforming the sacrament. (Spoiler Alert - the priest isn't). Marriage is ministered by the two people involved. By agreeing, formally, that they wish to be married they become related to each other, spiritually, the same way brothers and sisters are related to each other. A permanent, undefinable, connection that can't be broken. And that happens during the actual ceremony, not later in bed.
The Vatican Law to says that the marriage isn't in effect until it's consummated is a historical anomaly that has more to do with being able to get out of a forced marriage than it has to do with anything else.
Yeah, no.
Please, read Humane Vitae. Sex is both reproductive and unitive. Although they can't be separated during sexual intercourse, both need to be present.
For some reason, everybody forgets about unity as part of the situation.
Yeah, these two aren't even related. You don't get an annulment because you don't like your marriage, you get one because the sacrament never took during the ceremony (or anytime after - that's important as well). An annulment means the sacrament of marriage never took place. It doesn't have much to do with your sex life.
Ok, I'm coming out and saying it: Children have ALWAYS been a burden. Raising children is hard, expensive
and thankless by everybody.
Especially the Church.
Many people choose to do it anyway. Maybe not as many as we used to.
Second. "Contraceptive Mentality" is one of the terms the has absolutely no meaning and is used as if it describes some immoral state that needs correcting. I don't know where this term came from, It's been attributed to Pope Paul, but I don't think he ever used it and I don't think he ever described a moral perspective by any individual that can be pointed to ro show it's meaning.
I think the Couple to Couple's League actually made it up (they sure like using it). And the Couple to Couple's League, God love them, plays fast and loose with their facts, so I'm disinclined to give this phase credence.,
Ok, this is what set me off originally.
This. Is. Flat. Incorrect.
And misogynistic
And likely misandrinistic as well.
But, you're in company, Paul was all these things in Humane Vitae and, hey, he's a Saint now.
Sex is about unity as well as reproduction. In any marriage there are three distinct entities: husband, wife, and the marriage itself. The marriage needs attention. The husband and wife should tend to it.
BUT.....
...THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO GIVE IN TO EVERY REQUEST TO SEX YOUR PARTNER ASKS FOR.
(I looked it up - again - to make sure)
Stop spreading this nonsense, it's medievalism.
Let's unpack this mess.
It's not an abuse to NFP to use NFP. You have a right to do this. Again, don't believe me, read Humane Vitae.
I know, it's convoluted, the logic is tortured, and its instructions are incomplete, and its reasoning is suspect. BUT...the whole point of Humane Vitae is that you actually have control over your reproductive decisions. You're allowed to decide.
Again, your understanding of marriage as a sacrament is just wrong. A "contraceptive mindset" whatever the blazes that is doesn't have any effect on whether the sacrament of marriage occurs and isn't grounds for an annulment on its own.
As far as your Trad Wife screed is concerned, I'll just defer to any woman who is about 40 and married and asks if being wholly dependent on someone else is a good idea or not.
(Another Spoiler Alert - The vast majority say not)
C'mon, BWaP - you could work on your contraceptive mindset if you tried.
Well, you and I finally agree on something: Get off the screen and go out and meet somebody. "Take your chances"? You've got a way better shot at a real person out in the world than magnetic ink on a computer screen.
Go for it all you single people !!!!
Marriage is a sacrifice as well as a sacrament
No it is not a misogynistic dominatIon of a woman, nor is it the emasculating eye roll to control a man
If you do not want kids, don’t get married
If you want to live an independent life not beholden to a man, don’t get married
It is under pain of mortal sin for a woman to refuse a reasonable request for the marital act.
What does a man do? Ok, she refused, so she is in mortal sin, and he wishes to maintain sanctifying grace. No sex until she goes to confession and repents. There is no fellowship of light with darkness. A man is to control his appetites for the glory of the kingdom of God, not his own lusts. Does the phrase deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me have no meaning?
It is also mortal sin for a man to abuse his wife. He who hates his wife hates himself. A man’s command is to love his wife and give himself for her. It is not his place to force her to be subject to him, nor cry and rant and beg for sex. His job is to guide her to heaven.
Virtue is not negotiable.
God made Mary the queen of heaven and earth. I take His example and gave my wife full power of attorney to act in my place. Mary is the perfect reflection of God, so my wife will completely represent me in all my affairs.
I do not keep her locked at home barefoot and pregnant. She runs my estate and is the mother of my child. You seem to think that I would force her should she refuse a reasonable request and then use that to demand her submission.
No, I would be sad and heartbroken as the Lord is when we sin. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and He leaves when we sin mortally. Attempting intercourse with my wife in that state would be the same as the sacrilege of receiving the Eucharist while in mortal sin. It would bring condemnation.
Your post leads me to think that you have absolutely no understanding of sacramental marriage and has bought into the modern view of toxic masculinity.
I feel really bad for you, as modern feminism makes one a man that is dead inside, much like the name you chose to represent yourself. Cosmic Charlie is the avatar of the Grateful Dead.
Interesting choice Charlie
A Catholic man is not a cave man; he is a man of virtue that will not submit to the zeitgeist, nor will he marry a woman who does. Should his wife submit to the zeitgeist, he will withdraw from her, as the Holy Spirit withdraws from us when we are in sin. The legality of the marriage remains as does my wife’s power of attorney over me, just as the gifts and calling of God are without repentance, but there is no intercourse, nor can there be without repentance. Should my wife refuse to repent and divorce me, then I am alone with God, so what?
I am done with the lie of the modern world
I stand by my original thought that I hope the Catholic marriage site would promote catholic marriages rather than bringing males and females together that are afraid of the marital debt and believe the lie of toxic masculinity and oppression of women
www.catholicnewsagency.com
