Necromancy and Heavenly Intercession

[livingproofGM]

The point is to pray to God for him to let his glory be shown through us. We know that the power flows out of him and not to the saints. Also, God responds to faith not words. So when we pray we pray to God with faith, and we can ask for all of heaven to support the prayer which it will if God wants. (I feel that if I should ask the saints and angels to ask him then my faith is not complete, so I don't...)

So I'm not allowed to ask you to pray for me?

 

[Catholicism]

Necromancy is sin. A necromancer is one who interrogates the dead. When Saul asked a medium to call up Samuel, he was directly violating his own law and the commandment of God.

Clearly, there is a difference between the conversation Jesus had with Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration, and the conversation the witch of Endor had with Samuel and Saul. Jesus did not sin.

How, then, do these examples compare with Catholics seeking intercession from the saints in Heaven?

One might say they are different, because Catholics seeking intercession are not seeking dialogue. However, as in Medjugorge, Catholics do appear to have dialogue with saints who have passed on to eternal life.

This is an interesting point, and I sincerely seek serious answers.

1. Becasue the people in heaven are more alive than the people on earth.

2. Becasue all prayer to the saints has God as it's object.

 

[dvd_holc]

allowed? Allowed yes.

but do you pray to me?

 

[livingproofGM]

allowed? Allowed yes.

but do you pray to me?

No I pray FOR you, which is just what the Saints are doing in Heaven, praying TO God, FOR us.

 

[Iollain]

Chapter and verse for prayer to those passed on does not exist.

 

[livingproofGM]

Chapter and verse for prayer to those passed on does not exist.

In the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Lk 16:19-30), the departed rich man is able to pray to Abraham and intercede for his brothers. This implies that there can be communication across the abyss, and that fraternal charity extends beyond the grave.

 

[Lynn73]

You are really reaching. Both Lazarus and the rich men were dead. Name chapter and verse concerning the still physically alive made to the physically dead.

 

[Iollain]

Does not prove prayer to those passed on, there is no prayer to anyone but God in the Bible. Those people are all passed on.

 

[livingproofGM]

Does not prove prayer to those passed on, there is no prayer to anyone but God in the Bible. Those people are all passed on.

well, obviously you won't be swayed, even though the saints are more alive than you and I

 

[QuantaCura]

The point is to pray to God for him to let his glory be shown through us. We know that the power flows out of him and not to the saints. Also, God responds to faith not words. So when we pray we pray to God with faith, and we can ask for all of heaven to support the prayer which it will if God wants. (I feel that if I should ask the saints and angels to ask him then my faith is not complete, so I don't...)

Have you ever asked a friend or family member to pray for you?

 

[Iollain]

well, obviously you won't be swayed, even though the saints are more alive than you and I

That's nice but it is still against God's will.

 

[QuantaCura]

That's nice but it is still against God's will.

Says who?

 

[Iollain]

It's in the Bible, God does not want us contacting those passed on and there is not one mention of contacting them.

 

[dvd_holc]

"Have you ever asked a friend or family member to pray for you?"

I have. And it is allowed. I make a point of praying to God in the name of Jesus. Now, I don't pray to any other spirit or soul (not of this world currently) other than God. Pray is for God, and in my prayers I speak to him for the things of my desires (like taking care of my loved ones, food, money, etc...mine and others needs).

 

[livingproofGM]

It's in the Bible, God does not want us contacting those passed on and there is not one mention of contacting them.

I would like that verse, if that's alright.

 

[Iollain]

Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,


Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Your not supposed to try to contact ghosts.

 

[QuantaCura]

Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,


Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Your not supposed to try to contact ghosts.

First, Saints are not ghosts. Second, this is talking about wizardry and fortune telling. It means calling on the dead to gain secret information. This means that one should listen to God's prophets instead of holding seances. Anyone with any common sense can see the difference between a seance and a son humbly standing at, say, his mother's grave asking her to pray for him. One is an occult way of gaining secret info, one is asking a loved one for their prayers.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

So the prayers that the elders offer to God in Revelation are what? Something God gave them so they could hold onto them for a while and then give them back???

 

[Iollain]

First, Saints are not ghosts. Second, this is talking about wizardry and fortune telling. It means calling on the dead to gain secret information. This means that one should listen to God's prophets instead of holding seances. Anyone with any common sense can see the difference between a seance and a son humbly standing at, say, his mother's grave asking her to pray for him. One is an occult way of gaining secret info, one is asking a loved one for their prayers.

Yes they would be ghosts if they are out of body, the resurrection has not happened yet.

Are you sure God sees a difference whether we call ourselves Helga the Seance Lady or Joe who prays to his mother? Necromancy means asking the dead, and that includes the dead in Christ.

 

[Iollain]

So the prayers that the elders offer to God in Revelation are what? Something God gave them so they could hold onto them for a while and then give them back???

Revelations is kinda a mystery to me, the beasts and the elders have golden vials of prayers of the saints does not tell us much. There is not once in the Bible where there is one example of prayer to anyone but God.