Narrow or difficult? Matt 7:14 translation?

[juvenissun]

Yes, that is a reason that makes sense. For example, the Colorado river no longer travels all the way to the Atlantic Ocean, because it is starting to dry up. There is less water, so it is becoming narrower and shorter. We indeed have our answer. Well done! One might say the way to heaven would be wide, if only more chose it.

So I guess the question now is why. Why do so few choose the way to heaven? Would you say that the average person, when given a choice between that which is easy and that which is difficult, will often choose the easy instead of the difficult?

I think difficult should be the least or the last reason which stops a person become a Christian. In contrast, be a dedicated Buddhist is indeed quite difficult.

I don't think there is anything which is easier than becoming a Christian. Why don't people choose it? Yeah, it is too easy to be true.

 

[spockrates]

If there were a lot of people, but the road is narrow, then the narrow road defeat the purpose of Salvation.

So, narrow means small, not attractive. That make most people not to select it. Or narrow mean hidden, so most people neglect it.

Difficult means many people tried but failed. But if the analogy is a road, then walk on a road, large or small, should not be a hard thing to do. As long as a person became a Christian, it is no that hard to continue it.

So, I prefer the narrow translation. Most people just do not select Christianity.

Can difficult also mean that people have not tried and failed but don't try at all? When faced with a choice between doing something difficult or doing something easy, don't people often do what is easy, even when the difficult is more beneficial to them?

 

[spockrates]

I think difficult should be the least or the last reason which stops a person become a Christian. In contrast, be a dedicated Buddhist is indeed quite difficult.

I don't think there is anything which is easier than becoming a Christian. Why don't people choose it? Yeah, it is too easy to be true.

But my friend, consider this:

1. A person has a choice between something that is too easy and something that is too hard.

2. The thing that is too easy is more beneficial to her than the thing that is too hard.

What thing is she more likely to choose? The thing that is easier and more beneficial, or the thing that is harder and detrimental to her?

 

[juvenissun]

But my friend, consider this:

1. A person has a choice between something that is too easy and something that is too hard.

2. The thing that is too easy is more beneficial to her than the thing that is too hard.

What thing is she more likely to choose? The thing that is easier and more beneficial, or the thing that is harder and detrimental to her?

Just say I do believe in Jesus Christ and I will be saved? You must be kidding. I don't even know if Jesus ever existed.

 

[juvenissun]

Can difficult also mean that people have not tried and failed but don't try at all? When faced with a choice between doing something difficult or doing something easy, don't people often do what is easy, even when the difficult is more beneficial to them?

Only when they think the easier one works.

 

[FerventDisciple]

Yes, that is a reason that makes sense. For example, the Colorado river no longer travels all the way to the Atlantic Ocean, because it is starting to dry up. There is less water, so it is becoming narrower and shorter. We indeed have our answer. Well done! One might say the way to heaven would be wide, if only more chose it.

So I guess the question now is why. Why do so few choose the way to heaven? Would you say that the average person, when given a choice between that which is easy and that which is difficult, will often choose the easy instead of the difficult?

Because people hate God and love sin.

This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. John 3:19-20 (NASB)

 

[Radagast]

So which is more accurate, narrow/compressed or difficult/hard?

The word (see here) is well-understood from Classical Greek. It can mean either "narrow/squeezed" (as in Mark 3:9) or, metaphorically, "troubled/afflicted/difficult" (as in 2 Cor 1:6, 2 Cor 4:8, 2 Cor 7:5, 1 Thes 3:4, etc.).

Definitely it means the opposite of "an easy path." I think the ESV gets the translation right with "For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."

I guess that if you read Paul's story in Acts, then you will understand in what way the path can be hard. The Christians in Iraq already understand it all too well.

 

[juvenissun]

The word (see here) is well-understood from Classical Greek. It can mean either "narrow/squeezed" (as in Mark 3:9) or, metaphorically, "troubled/afflicted/difficult" (as in 2 Cor 1:6, 2 Cor 4:8, 2 Cor 7:5, 1 Thes 3:4, etc.).

Definitely it means the opposite of "an easy path." I think the ESV gets the translation right with "For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."

I guess that if you read Paul's story in Acts, then you will understand in what way the path can be hard. The Christians in Iraq already understand it all too well.

You are right.
I forgot the pressure from outside. In that case, it is hard, very hard.

 

[x141]

So I noticed that in Matthew 7:14 that there's a disagreement amongst the translations as to how thlíbō is to be translated in this particular verse:

Narrow or compressed:

For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Mt 7:14 (NASB)

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Mt 7:14 (KJV)

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Mt 7:14 (NIV)

But the gate is narrow (contracted by pressure) and the way is straitened and compressed that leads away to life, and few are those who find it. Mt 7:14 (AMP)

how strait [is] the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it! Mt 7:14 (YLT)

Difficult or hard:

Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Mt 7:14 (NKJV)

For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Mt 7:14 (ESV)

How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life, and there are few who find it! Mt 7:14 (NET)

But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it. Mt 7:14 (NLT)

How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it. Mt 7:14 (HCSB)

For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Mt 7:14 (NRSV)

Here's a link to Greek definitions:

Strong's Greek: 2346. θλίβω (thlibó) -- to press, afflict

So which is more accurate, narrow/compressed or difficult/hard?

Single is more accurate.

 

[Radagast]

Single is more accurate.

Not really, no.

 

[x141]

Not really, no.

It is a harlot that has more than one husband ... or whose eye is not single.

 

[Radagast]

It is a harlot that has more than one husband ... or whose eye is not single.

Huh?

How does this relate to the Greek word in Matthew 7:14?

 

[x141]

Huh?

How does this relate to the Greek word in Matthew 7:14?

Without it's relationship to the way and where it leads to, all the things the definition of the word narrow means or implies falls short, or is incomplete. It must be defined by the whole of the book rather than a dictionary definition alone, similar to the word seas, or the word clouds when James referenced these to depict truths that spoke in picture form to spiritual realties which are defined by the whole of scripture, as to what they equate to in the language of God.

 

[Radagast]

Without it's relationship to the way and where it leads to, all the things the definition of the word narrow means or implies falls short, or is incomplete. It must be defined by the whole of the book rather than a dictionary definition alone, similar to the word seas, or the word clouds when James referenced these to depict truths that spoke in picture form to spiritual realties which are defined by the whole of scripture, as to what they equate to in the language of God.

This is not how translation works. We don't alter words based on what someone thinks the "whole of the book" says.

 

[x141]

This is not how translation works. We don't alter words based on what someone thinks the "whole of the book" says.

This is not how you translate. In reality only God can define his word just as he is the only one who reveals the son.

Do you think Paul was wrong when he called the mountain of the law Hagar and her son, where did he get this from ... certainly he did not look up all the words in a dictionary and decide that this was all that they meant.

How about Jesus when he said the scriptures testified of him as being that which they searched the scriptures for ...

Or the Hebrew writer who said God in these last days has spoken to us by son, which in reality he has always spoken to us by him, not just in these last days, which the definition of this word (son) pales in comparison to the endless truth that he is.

How many words does it take to reveal the word God ...

 

[Radagast]

Do you think Paul was wrong

Neither of us is Paul.

 

[x141]

Neither of us is Paul.

You have no idea who you are, (or what is yours), or even where Paul saw this at and how he equated it with the son being revealed in him, which relates to us and every other son (no gender implied) as much as it did Paul seeing how it is God who is the all in all (and not of the mind of man or the labor of flesh (a stone cut out without hands, or a white stone given) leaving no one to boast), which has everything to do with the word narrow and its way, and the lfe it leads to (which is to know our father).

 

[By Faith Alone]

Straight...AND...narrow. No room for straying from the path.

 

[By Faith Alone]

I don't even know if Jesus ever existed.

 

[Radagast]

OK, this thread has just officially gotten waaaaaaay too strange and freaky.