My sexual orientation is eating away at my faith

[BillMcEnaney]

Linux, I know libido differs from sexual attraction. I lost both.

 

[linux.poet]

Linux, I know libido differs from sexual attraction. I lost both.

I lost my sexual attraction and my libido is intact. Therefore I don't have the same experience as you.

 

[BillMcEnaney]

I lost my sexual attraction and my libido is intact. Therefore I don't have the same experience as you.

That's alright. Sometimes I wonder whether I'd be better off with both because I'd need to try harder to be chaste. Some people think I should break my vow and marry. But I'll keep it.

Catholics believe procreation and child education are marriage's primary purposes. I don't know how to be a good father. Besides, I like to sleep alone. When I was a boy, my family adopted a Gordon Setter who loved the master bed. Sometimes, when she sprawled out in it, Mom fell out.

Maybe Ginger, the dog, was less brilliant than I thought. Sadly, no one at the kennel told her that the bathroom was outdoors. So she did what any clever dog would do. She hid her calling card under my desk. Even if I were blind, I still would have known that she dropped in. My brother's German Shepherd checked on me when I lounged in bed. Ginger, however, always suggested washing the floor.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Be careful with this. I think orientations are largely formed by the actions of parents in childhood, rather than media and temptations from the outside. While some shallow individuals may have been led astray, a sexual/romantic orientation is what is appealing in the first place. It doesn't matter how much you try to expose me to lesbianism, I'm revolted and disgusted by it and will run away. It has no appeal. Likewise, you can show me all of the pictures of good-looking guys you want, it doesn't work. I need to get to know him before I feel anything.

I read a book called To My Trans Sisters where a bunch of biological guys told their stories about how they got to be transgender female, and that nailed in the idea that multiple influences can get you to a particular ugly result. Still, the classic assumption that homosexuality comes from a boy being raised without a father holds some water: he's looking for the father he never had, thinking that sex will get him that. He also tends to idealize his mom (she's the best, I don't need another woman) or villainize her if she was controlling (woman are the worst, I don't want to sleep with them). But homosexuality can come from other parental causes.

Bisexuality, at least all of the cases I've read about so far, come from parents who fail to be there emotionally for their children, both of them. The child finds sex with either gender equally appealing. "Who cares who it is? I want everyone to love me, since nobody has in the past, I'll take that from either male or female." But there could be other causes, this isn't a diagnosis and I'm not a therapist.

However, in my state, public school children are being educated about LGTBQIA from an early age. That is an influence to be worried about, because children are still forming their orientations, unlike adults. It twists my stomach.

Libido (sex drive) is different from sexual attraction.

Meanwhile, younger linux wanted to be a lifelong single woman and God was like "haha no" and placed an attractive man in my path. I rejected him, dealt with the thing that was attracting me to him, moved on, and God was like "Oh, here's another attractive man, try this one." Nope. And so on. God and me are still doing this.

Romantic attraction is an intense emotional desire to be with a person, to talk with them, and also to do things for them, at least in my experience. I favor and esteem the person with an irrational emotional bias. I would wait to be certain of a romantic orientation for longer, because those attractions take longer to form so it takes longer to be certain of it.

Based solely on this information, though, I'd say that you're biromantic as well as bisexual. If you form a romantic attraction to a guy, it will be more complicated because you want to follow the Lord. Unwanted romantic attractions can lead to mental breakdowns, because the part of your mind that is attracted is fighting the part of your mind that doesn't want the attraction. This has happened to me multiple times. And yes, romantic attractions can generate sexual thoughts that weren't previously there - that has happened to me as well.

I feel sorry for you. The Lord seems to have given you a challenge here.

I don't really know what caused my sexual attractions. I think my parents made some mistakes raising me, but I'd put more of the blame on my dad than my mom. He had a job that led him to be away for most of the day. I came to associate him with spankings (which I'm firmly against even though I know some Christians in the south are very much in support of it). As I grew older he was able to spend more time with me and my brothers and they all came to like him better. But I still remember some of the stuff in childhood and it's hard to forget all of that and love who my dad is now, despite all of his good qualities. I do know with my mom I always figured that if I do marry a woman, she has to be different from my mom and probably not be from the same background as she is.

So, maybe because of that parental dynamic, my attraction to women is different from my attraction to men. When I see an attractive woman I have normal sexual feelings. With a man it's more of a sense that I want to be him and be like him. And if I can't, then I want to have him so that I don't lack something he has. That parastical quality is what made me realize it would never have worked out with this man even if we were both gay atheists (we're both Christians and today he's still a good friend, but I never told him about my SSA). I think I'd rather have sex with a woman, but since I'm a virgin and committed to Christian sexual ethics I don't know for sure. Most of my sexual fantasies are about women--I'd say over 90%. It was a bit different in my teenage years, but that kind of faded with age, although I'm not really sure how or why.

I think the hardest thing about all of this is that I don't know whether to be celibate or try and have a relationship with a woman. Due to being on the autism spectrum, having mental health issues, and coming to terms with my sexual orientation, I never dated in high school or college (although in college I noticed I became more attracted to women).

Just yesterday I was really depressed about all of this. Listening to a sermon that wasn't even about sexual ethics at all made me feel better, oddly enough. I think I'm kind of an emotional person and I've noticed that most guys just aren't like that, or at least they don't really dive deep into them like I do. I think some of that might be a side effect of SSA.

 

[linux.poet]

I think I'm kind of an emotional person and I've noticed that most guys just aren't like that, or at least they don't really dive deep into them like I do.

It’s actually been my experience that males are more emotional than females. My fellow women seem very logical, intelligent, and somewhat callous, whereas the men seem emotional and spontaneous.

But that may be my heteroromantic self talking - I may see more emotions in male individuals, so I think there are more of them.

Anyway, where my orientation comes from seems to be obvious: my dad repeatedly told me not to get married, that my children were going to be “monsters”, and that marriage and children were the ticket to misery. Seeing the awful relationship between my mom and my dad further cemented this as reality. When I was 14, I read Every Young Woman’s Battle and similar books that convinced me that men who were looking for sex or dating didn’t care about me, that they just wanted to use me for my body, etc. This was reinforced by the dumb guys in public school who were trying to ask me out without bothering to get to know me first. I could tell they were all after one thing. That’s where the asexual comes from.

But there was something pushing against all of this negativity: the relationship I had with my younger brother, and also a relationship with a male friend as a child who was willing to listen to me. I found both of those relationships to be insightful and emotionally important. Somewhat later, I joined a discussion forum with an almost-entirely male population, and I found their emotional support to be valuable during one of the darkest times in my life. They taught me that I could be loved. That’s where the heteroromantic comes from.

But don’t beat up on yourself for not having as clear a view of your past as I do. I have a highly prodigious memory that is probably supernaturally assisted, for God uses it to recall His Word for people who need it.

With a man it's more of a sense that I want to be him and be like him. And if I can't, then I want to have him so that I don't lack something he has. That parastical quality is what made me realize it would never have worked out with this man even if we were both gay atheists

Something that has helped me with unwanted attractions is asking myself: what do I want to be that this guy has? And then, when I have the answer, cultivating that skill or ability for myself.

One attraction I had was to a younger gentleman who I could never get married to, and it was intense. This attraction was rooted in chess, of all the things. I believed that I would never win at chess, that I was a chess failure, and so I was attracted to this guy because I wanted that skill so badly and I believed that I could never have it, so I would have him, who had the skill.

Upon seeing this, I decided to go learn chess for myself. Turns out I’m actually pretty good at chess, or a lot better that my discouraged self thought I was, and I can always learn more. As I learned more chess, my attraction to him dissolved and I don’t feel it anymore.

I’m not a therapist, so take this with salt, but maybe what happened is that your Dad’s actions when you were younger made you think that men were deficient in moral character, and since you are a man, that made you think that you are doomed to be like him and you can’t improve under the Holy Spirit’s power. Then you see qualities in the good, godly men around you, and you are attracted to them instead of being inspired. Satan will twist anything. It’s possible that, if you list off the qualities in the men you like and start to actually improve yourself to acquire them (or accept that you can’t acquire it and it’s okay), your problem could start to become a lot more manageable. *

The reason I’m saying this is that you mentioned that the college improved your situation. College is about improving yourself and your skills, so if you succeed there it increases your learning confidence - you become more confident that you can acquire new skills. Meanwhile, 90% of your sexual thoughts are about women now - that’s something to be grateful to the Lord for in terms of progress.

Processing your memories of your dad in therapy may help you, but the autism can interact with that. I would recommend trying to get a therapist over the internet who will communicate via email if you do that, because I’ve found writing to be far less socially stressful than speaking for my autistic friends. (Journaling your thoughts in a safe location or privately taping them could help process what is going on too.) I would also think a male therapist would be much more helpful than a female one for something like this. Something to consider.

*Note: the mental health issues you mentioned could be an obstacle to acquiring the skills that you want, which could be feeding this, so you may need to show some kindness and grace to yourself and give yourself some time. This is looks like a complex interaction of mental health stuff, and that’s what therapists, particularly good therapists, are trained to resolve. I know the SSA looks like the biggest problem (Romans 1! Woe is me!) but the root of this may be simple depression that believes you can’t improve yourself and that may prove to actually be the biggest monster to tackle. (And then the depression comes back around in your mind, sees that you’re same-sex attracted, and gets depressed about that too! Oof brother. Oof.)

Again, I’m not a therapist, so take all of this with salt, but if I were in your boots, I would seek out a male Christian therapist whom you are not attracted to for some childhood memory/trauma processing and some treatment for depression/mental health issues. I think that will improve your situation.

 

[grandvizier1006]

It’s actually been my experience that males are more emotional than females. My fellow women seem very logical, intelligent, and somewhat callous, whereas the men seem emotional and spontaneous.

But that may be my heteroromantic self talking - I may see more emotions in male individuals, so I think there are more of them.

Anyway, where my orientation comes from seems to be obvious: my dad repeatedly told me not to get married, that my children were going to be “monsters”, and that marriage and children were the ticket to misery. Seeing the awful relationship between my mom and my dad further cemented this as reality. When I was 14, I read Every Young Woman’s Battle and similar books that convinced me that men who were looking for sex or dating didn’t care about me, that they just wanted to use me for my body, etc. This was reinforced by the dumb guys in public school who were trying to ask me out without bothering to get to know me first. I could tell they were all after one thing. That’s where the asexual comes from.

But there was something pushing against all of this negativity: the relationship I had with my younger brother, and also a relationship with a male friend as a child who was willing to listen to me. I found both of those relationships to be insightful and emotionally important. Somewhat later, I joined a discussion forum with an almost-entirely male population, and I found their emotional support to be valuable during one of the darkest times in my life. They taught me that I could be loved. That’s where the heteroromantic comes from.

But don’t beat up on yourself for not having as clear a view of your past as I do. I have a highly prodigious memory that is probably supernaturally assisted, for God uses it to recall His Word for people who need it.

Something that has helped me with unwanted attractions is asking myself: what do I want to be that this guy has? And then, when I have the answer, cultivating that skill or ability for myself.

One attraction I had was to a younger gentleman who I could never get married to, and it was intense. This attraction was rooted in chess, of all the things. I believed that I would never win at chess, that I was a chess failure, and so I was attracted to this guy because I wanted that skill so badly and I believed that I could never have it, so I would have him, who had the skill.

Upon seeing this, I decided to go learn chess for myself. Turns out I’m actually pretty good at chess, or a lot better that my discouraged self thought I was, and I can always learn more. As I learned more chess, my attraction to him dissolved and I don’t feel it anymore.

I’m not a therapist, so take this with salt, but maybe what happened is that your Dad’s actions when you were younger made you think that men were deficient in moral character, and since you are a man, that made you think that you are doomed to be like him and you can’t improve under the Holy Spirit’s power. Then you see qualities in the good, godly men around you, and you are attracted to them instead of being inspired. Satan will twist anything. It’s possible that, if you list off the qualities in the men you like and start to actually improve yourself to acquire them (or accept that you can’t acquire it and it’s okay), your problem could start to become a lot more manageable. *

The reason I’m saying this is that you mentioned that the college improved your situation. College is about improving yourself and your skills, so if you succeed there it increases your learning confidence - you become more confident that you can acquire new skills. Meanwhile, 90% of your sexual thoughts are about women now - that’s something to be grateful to the Lord for in terms of progress.

Processing your memories of your dad in therapy may help you, but the autism can interact with that. I would recommend trying to get a therapist over the internet who will communicate via email if you do that, because I’ve found writing to be far less socially stressful than speaking for my autistic friends. (Journaling your thoughts in a safe location or privately taping them could help process what is going on too.) I would also think a male therapist would be much more helpful than a female one for something like this. Something to consider.

*Note: the mental health issues you mentioned could be an obstacle to acquiring the skills that you want, which could be feeding this, so you may need to show some kindness and grace to yourself and give yourself some time. This is looks like a complex interaction of mental health stuff, and that’s what therapists, particularly good therapists, are trained to resolve. I know the SSA looks like the biggest problem (Romans 1! Woe is me!) but the root of this may be simple depression that believes you can’t improve yourself and that may prove to actually be the biggest monster to tackle. (And then the depression comes back around in your mind, sees that you’re same-sex attracted, and gets depressed about that too! Oof brother. Oof.)

Again, I’m not a therapist, so take all of this with salt, but if I were in your boots, I would seek out a male Christian therapist whom you are not attracted to for some childhood memory/trauma processing and some treatment for depression/mental health issues. I think that will improve your situation.

I didn't know that being asexual had a cause like that--I figured it was more of a thing having to do with no libido or something. I'm sorry all of that ruined the idea of sex for you. I understand Every Young Man's Battle caused a lot of damage to men, although I thankfully never read it nor was I taught any of that stuff.

I think you may be right about my dad. Back then I think I associated being a man with having a job that took you away from your family. And whenever I brought it up in the past, my dad justified it by saying he was making a lot of money so we could live well. He was, so he wasn't wrong there, but money can't buy happiness and it's not the only thing needed for good mental health, at least in the US where it isn't free. I remember another thing was how he'd want us to hug him when he came home, but I didn't like that because I still remembered the spankings, at least subconsciously. So I just didn't like physical affection growing up. It's only recently that I realized how starved of that I was for most of my life. Even now it's not all that appealing, but sometimes I get this sense that I really missed out on something there.

I think when it comes to the men I know, the thing I admire about them is their personality traits. They usually have some personality trait I don't have that I feel like is necessary to what I guess I think a "real man" should be. I didn't exactly become attracted to a lot of these men necessarily, but I am jealous of what they have. Confidence, charisma, an indifference to other people's judgment, friendliness, a good work ethic, etc. I guess I felt like stuff like that was just sort of naturally there or not, and not something you could just develop. All these guys I'm jealous of in some ways are my friends so I'd still want to keep them close even if I acquired what they have.

Thanks for all the advice. I have a therapist right now but she's a woman and she specializes particularly in OCD. I haven't seen the need to bring up my SSA with her yet, but I've thought about it.

 

[Saucy]

I think I'm fairly emotional as a guy. I often wonder if it's a turn-off for women.

 

[linux.poet]

I think you may be right about my dad. Back then I think I associated being a man with having a job that took you away from your family.

It seems like you were looking for emotional support from your dad that he didn’t give you.

So I just didn't like physical affection growing up. It's only recently that I realized how starved of that I was for most of my life. Even now it's not all that appealing, but sometimes I get this sense that I really missed out on something there.

Perhaps this thread may be useful:

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-my-eyes-not-focusing-feelinglessness.8262984

That is me talking about my own physical abuse my dad inflicted on me and looking for recovery for my own sense of human contact, which was met with helpful advice. Since you’re talking about spankings, etc, I think that might be helpful for you to read.

I didn't exactly become attracted to a lot of these men necessarily, but I am jealous of what they have. Confidence, charisma, an indifference to other people's judgment, friendliness, a good work ethic, etc. I guess I felt like stuff like that was just sort of naturally there or not, and not something you could just develop. All these guys I'm jealous of in some ways are my friends so I'd still want to keep them close even if I acquired what they have.

I’m still friends with the guy I was romantically attracted to over the chess. We still play chess together sometimes, ironically. Even though I acquired his skill, he is still my friend. It’s possible.

Recovering from unwanted attractions doesn’t mean that you cut yourself off from your friends; it actually strengthens those friendships. There is an attacking/hatred/destruction component of SSA. In the classic case, the little boy doesn’t have a dad, so he feels that he deserves to be abandoned, and that he is a second-class male human being. Thus he feels the need to sexually dominate men to abuse them down to his level or he feels that he deserves to be sexually dominated by men because he is beneath them. Both paths are bad, obviously. Your dad’s bad behavior may have produced a similar effect where you feel second-class in comparison to other men who had better dads. You were abused and your brothers were not, as well, which could have reinforced the idea that you were defective in some way and thus deserved to be treated badly. May and could, though.

The point is that SSA/homosexuality, contrary to popular belief, is not loving at all. It’s abusive and unhealthy. Not becoming sexually attracted to men, leaving them be, is actually loving them and treating them better. You respect their body and their space instead of wanting to violate it and hurt it.

Thus, counterintuitively for SSA, isolating yourself from the same sex in my view is not a remedy. That just plunges one deeper into their feelings of inadequacy and inflames the SSA desires more. Being around your friends may help you because they are people you want to be friends with and don’t want to hurt.

However, the attacking and hatred thing may not necessarily be happening with your friends, because you’re not attracted to them. Jealousy is frequently just a straight-up sin that may need to be spiritually worked on its own. Yes, God is a jealous God, but we are not to covet what someone else has. Human jealousy is sinful as per these verses:

But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.

Let’s behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and debauchery, not in strife and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.

Jealousy also appears on the list of sins to avoid in Galatians 5:20 and 1 Corinthians 12:20, as well.

This jealousy may be related to all of that psychological material discussed previously that also gives rise to the SSA, but it’s SSA and jealousy - two separate sins. Does that make sense? (Obviously getting rid of the jealousy would improve your relationship with your friends - not sinning against someone generally improves your relationship to them. But it’s a different kind of improvement.)

—-
As for your OCD therapist, she might be able to tell you how OCD is related to your SSA or give you a referral to a more general therapist or a childhood trauma specialist. I’m just noticing the limitations of my perspective when it comes from being a female human being completely on the outside here and I’m thinking a male human being might understand your situation a lot better.

I think I'm fairly emotional as a guy. I often wonder if it's a turn-off for women.

It’s a turn off for narcissistic women who want men to be logical like them. It’s not a turn off for women who want women to be women and men to be men.

 

[Lost4words]

Put all of your sufferings / thoughts / desires etc at the feet of Good. Ask Him to accept them on behalf of others and to help guide you on the right path in life.

Life can be very hard. It can be a massive challenge.

I have and do suffer with depression and anxiety. It is not easy but, trust in God. Let Him into your life 100%.

However hard it gets to trudge through your own personal desert, keep going! Keep praying to God. Keep leaning on Him.

 

[har_habayit]

Our earthly life is a pilgrimage, and a pilgrimage isn't meant to be easy. After some people live like hedonists with their fancy cars, mansions, gourmet food, sexual pleasure, and more, they may hear Christ say, "Well, you lived for yourself when you should have lived for me. So go away. Leave me because you don't belong in heaven."

POWERFUL QUOTE

 

[har_habayit]

I have a similar story to the OP. In my case, I was exposed to things pretty early, forced by girls a little older than me when I was a boy, and then consistently drugged and raped by a much, much older man when I was 17 through 19. As a result, I have a pretty disordered and unhealthy sexuality.

I understand the fear that a woman would never want to be with a guy with SSA who also has mental health problems. I totally, totally get that. I have more or less given up on the prospect. I really would love to be a monk sometimes, but I don't really go through with exploring it because then I would live in a community of men exclusively, and that would cause problems for me.

This is pretty painful to write, but I find myself still acting out things that were done to me twenty years later. It's devastating. The agony of knowing that I might always be this way.

I would never marry without getting SERIOUS help for this issue. Marriages definitely implode when there is an affair, specifically a homosexual one. It is a massive betrayal in terms of a Christian marriage and VERY difficult to bounce back from because it's so taboo and because it is seen as a betrayal to the other person as well as their shared religious foundation.

My best course of action is to join one of the communities mentioned in this post such as the Catholic Courage group. Realistically the thing I want to do for the rest of my life is to reasonably healthy, take care of myself emotionally, physically by eating the right foods, keeping my weight down, exercising, and somehow contributing to the world the best I can.

Anything beyond the things I wrote about above are in the hands of God.

I will mention however, that I do believe that for me, SSA actually WILL be sanctifying. Whenever I feel the urge to act out, I plan to go to the gym. If I can act out, then I certainly have the energy to go running and to play sports. I know this is an oversimplification, but the idea is there. The evil urge has to be transmuted, so to speak, into something positive. If this disorder is something that keeps me on my knees, causes me to fast and spend more time on my knees before God, and be disciplined with my diet (as undisciplined overeating has a way of encouraging the flesh in other departments) then I see it as a good thing.

Additionally, as Bella said, many people on this forum have much bigger problems than the one OP shared here. People have tremendous problems and secrets and as long as you are dealing with your issues, there is no shame involved. Only shame for the people who give up.