My lasting regret about pope Francis.

[Mountainmike]

Our pope was truly blessed by the Lord and given a very important task.

I think it is no coincidence our Lord performed the first recorded eucharistic miracles where the bread was seen in progressive conversion to forensically confirmed living heart tissue, in Buenos airies , in the cardinal bergoglios diocese, so he got to decide “ worthy of belief” as the science says. Our Lord then made him pope to give him the chance to shout it from the rooftops.

I think this was a very public revelation , not of new dogma, but confirming the old , so a sceptic world see and believe!
yet if Francis ever spoke of it, he said little, and certainly did not make it his mission!

Popes Have spoken openly on such as Fatima.
Francis had been given a pulpit to reach the world with it!

it seems even Islam took it more seriously than Francis.
One the most feared Iran hacker groups by big corporations and governments , took down the site of the church where it happened!

So to me Francis was a big disappointment.

 

[Mountainmike]

Our pope was truly blessed by the Lord and given a very important task.

I think it is no coincidence our Lord performed the first recorded eucharistic miracles where the bread was seen in progressive conversion to forensically confirmed living heart tissue, in Buenos airies , in the cardinal bergoglios diocese, so he got to decide “ worthy of belief” as the science says. Our Lord then made him pope to give him the chance to shout it from the rooftops.

I think this was a very public revelation , not of new dogma, but confirming the old , so a sceptic world see and believe!
yet if Francis ever spoke of it, he said little, and certainly did not make it his mission!

Popes Have spoken openly on such as Fatima.
Francis had been given a pulpit to reach the world with it!

it seems even Islam took it more seriously than Francis.
One the most feared Iran hacker groups by big corporations and governments , took down the site of the church where it happened!

So to me Francis was a big disappointment.

No comment @Michie?

 

[Michie]

I think anyone that’s been in OBOB knows I had issues with Pope Francis. I found him extremely confusing. He lacked clarity for the faithful and seemed to concern himself with politics and more worldly issues. While he is known as a pope of mercy it seemed lacking with the flock imo. Regardless of my issues with him I could also see the good he did as well. I respect the papal office and Pope Francis but that does not mean I always agreed with him. Was I disappointed? Yes, quite often. Archbishop Chaput pretty much summed it up for me. I’m not sure now is the time to air grievances though.

The Church After Francis - First Things

I have personal memories of Pope Francis that I greatly value: a friendly and generous working relationship at the 1997 Synod on America when we were both newly appointed...

firstthings.com

 

[RileyG]

I think anyone that’s been in OBOB knows I had issues with Pope Francis. I found him extremely confusing. He lacked clarity for the faithful and seemed to concern himself with politics and more worldly issues. While he is known as a pope of mercy it seemed lacking with the flock imo. Regardless of my issues with him I could also see the good he did as well. I respect the papal office and Pope Francis but that does not mean I always agreed with him. Was I disappointed? Yes, quite often. Archbishop Chaput pretty much summed it up for me. I’m not sure now is the time to air grievances though.

The Church After Francis - First Things

I have personal memories of Pope Francis that I greatly value: a friendly and generous working relationship at the 1997 Synod on America when we were both newly appointed...

firstthings.com

Well said.

 

[Mountainmike]

I think anyone that’s been in OBOB knows I had issues with Pope Francis. I found him extremely confusing. He lacked clarity for the faithful and seemed to concern himself with politics and more worldly issues. While he is known as a pope of mercy it seemed lacking with the flock imo. Regardless of my issues with him I could also see the good he did as well. I respect the papal office and Pope Francis but that does not mean I always agreed with him. Was I disappointed? Yes, quite often. Archbishop Chaput pretty much summed it up for me. I’m not sure now is the time to air grievances though.

The Church After Francis - First Things

I have personal memories of Pope Francis that I greatly value: a friendly and generous working relationship at the 1997 Synod on America when we were both newly appointed...

firstthings.com

It wasnt grievance as much as the sad event giving a platform to promote what he should have done.

Many non Catholics are commenting now in general media, it gives a chance to mention Buenos airies - do you
agree?

I agree on Francis. Too willing to bend under pressure.

Alas I am still a JP2 fan.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Christ performed miracles - raised the dead; healed the sick; turned water into wine; brought Lazarus back from the dead after four days when his body was stinking (I can relate to that as my own father's body wasn't found for four days and coming back from the dead in his case would have been a major event - mind you he did turn up in my bedroom on the night he died); cursed the fig tree; healed the deaf and blind.

Yet His own contemporaries crucified Him, and they were heritage to God working in their history as He has for few other nations.

What makes you think the world is going to sit up and say tilt because of a single eucharistic miracle? Those sorts of miracles are to edify Catholics already made, just as the Gospels were written to edify Christians already made. The earliest Christians didn't have Gospels.

How many Protestants have you seen beating a path to the local Catholic parish because of that eucharistic miracle? Or changing their interpretation of what the Eucharist really is?

As Pope he had numerous issues to contend with - to single out one miracle and say it should have been the sole focus of Pope Francis's ministry is somewhat biased.

 

[Bob Crowley]

As a footnote to my post above, I'm sorry that Pope Francis has died. But it was on the cards anyway considering his age and ill health.

As a former Protestant I tend to take the view that the Church is Christ's while the Pope is His appointed CEO, following in the footsteps of Saint Peter. Peter's appointment came with the concurrent statement that the "proud gates of hell will not prevail against it (the church)."

To my mind that is the important part. The church will keep going while Popes come and Popes go. There have been seven Popes in my lifetime although only three were Popes in my time as a Catholic - JP II, Benedict, and Francis. I will soon witness the appointment of an eighth (fourth in my Catholic life), or 267th in total.

To risk sounding cynical, as my old Protestant pastor used to say "So what's new?"

 

[Mountainmike]

As a footnote to my post above, I'm sorry that Pope Francis has died. But it was on the cards anyway considering his age and ill health.

As a former Protestant I tend to take the view that the Church is Christ's while the Pope is His appointed CEO, following in the footsteps of Saint Peter. Peter's appointment came with the concurrent statement that the "proud gates of hell will not prevail against it (the church)."

To my mind that is the important part. The church will keep going while Popes come and Popes go. There have been seven Popes in my lifetime although only three were Popes in my time as a Catholic - JP II, Benedict, and Francis. I will soon witness the appointment of an eighth (fourth in my Catholic life), or 267th in total.

To risk sounding cynical, as my old Protestant pastor used to say "So what's new?"

I am a former protestant too.
Books like”crossing the Tiber “ and “ upon this rock “ helped put the papal office in perspective.

But it was the Eucharist that made me cross the Tiber!

 

[Bob Crowley]

I crossed the Tiber before I did much reading on the Eucharist or the Catholic Church in general. In my case the endless Protestant divisions were one major factor. My belief in the Catholic interpretation of the Eucharist came later.

For what it's worth the same pastor I quoted above appeared in brief vision sometime after he died and after I'd become Catholic. He just turned up and said "The Catholic Church is CLOSEST to the truth" with a distinct emphasis on the word "closest".

We had discussed the issue of Catholicism while he was still alive. Even back then he was becoming cynical himself about Protestant division and said to me once (word for word) "When it comes to theology, Prostestants couldn't agree how far to spit!" He thought God might give us (Australia) a revival sometime. When I asked him where he thought it might start he said he thought it would be the Catholic Church as the "protestants are far too divided". But he also predicted the sexual abuse scandal saying "I think there's going to be a LOT of them!"

Clearly if there is going to be a revival the devastation to the church's reputation and the problems that caused will need time to settle down first. It becomes a case of waiting.

I think I've got a vague memory of him saying he was starting to go through RCIA (which meant nothing to me then, which is why I didn't take a lot of notice at the time) but he ended with the words "... that's if I live long enough..". He had cancer and he died a few months later - he didn't "live long enough". I left his church a few months before he died as I got married and moved some distance away, so we both left the church at about the same time.

There was one bit of black humour I suppose. We were talking about his cancer diagnosis. He said "You sometimes seem to get a sense of things. Do you ...er ...think ...ah... I might get over this?"

I hummed and hah-ed a bit, and replied "Well, I've had a sense for a while we'd both leave this church about the same time."

He gave me this sardonic look and said "Boy! You sure know how to cheer somebody up!" I suppose I could have been a bit more emphathetic....

The vision with his comments about the Catholic Church didn't occur in a vacuum.

 

[Mountainmike]

I crossed the Tiber before I did much reading on the Eucharist or the Catholic Church in general. In my case the endless Protestant divisions were one major factor. My belief in the Catholic interpretation of the Eucharist came later.

For what it's worth the same pastor I quoted above appeared in brief vision sometime after he died and after I'd become Catholic. He just turned up and said "The Catholic Church is CLOSEST to the truth" with a distinct emphasis on the word "closest".

We had discussed the issue of Catholicism while he was still alive. Even back then he was becoming cynical himself about Protestant division and said to me once (word for word) "When it comes to theology, Prostestants couldn't agree how far to spit!" He thought God might give us (Australia) a revival sometime. When I asked him where he thought it might start he said he thought it would be the Catholic Church as the "protestants are far too divided". But he also predicted the sexual abuse scandal saying "I think there's going to be a LOT of them!"

Clearly if there is going to be a revival the devastation to the church's reputation and the problems that caused will need time to settle down first. It becomes a case of waiting.

I think I've got a vague memory of him saying he was starting to go through RCIA (which meant nothing to me then, which is why I didn't take a lot of notice at the time) but he ended with the words "... that's if I live long enough..". He had cancer and he died a few months later - he didn't "live long enough". I left his church a few months before he died as I got married and moved some distance away, so we both left the church at about the same time.

There was one bit of black humour I suppose. We were talking about his cancer diagnosis. He said "You sometimes seem to get a sense of things. Do you ...er ...think ...ah... I might get over this?"

I hummed and hah-ed a bit, and replied "Well, I've had a sense for a while we'd both leave this church about the same time."

He gave me this sardonic look and said "Boy! You sure know how to cheer somebody up!" I suppose I could have been a bit more emphathetic....

The vision with his comments about the Catholic Church didn't occur in a vacuum.

Lovely anecdote!
Your pastor clearly had his heart in the right place.

On the scandals it’s worth remembering something napoleon said to a cardinal.

“Napoleon Bonaparte once taunted a Catholic cardinal by threatening: “Your Eminence, are you not aware that I have the power to destroy the Catholic Church?” To which the cardinal quipped: “Your Majesty, we Catholic clergy have done our best to destroy the Church for the last eighteen hundred years. We have not succeeded, and neither will you.”

Its comforting to know who is protecting the church despite us, not because of us!

​

 

[Michie]

It wasnt grievance as much as the sad event giving a platform to promote what he should have done.

Many non Catholics are commenting now in general media, it gives a chance to mention Buenos airies - do you
agree?

I agree on Francis. Too willing to bend under pressure.

Alas I am still a JP2 fan.

I loved JPII.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I think anyone that’s been in OBOB knows I had issues with Pope Francis. I found him extremely confusing. He lacked clarity for the faithful and seemed to concern himself with politics and more worldly issues. While he is known as a pope of mercy it seemed lacking with the flock imo. Regardless of my issues with him I could also see the good he did as well. I respect the papal office and Pope Francis but that does not mean I always agreed with him. Was I disappointed? Yes, quite often. Archbishop Chaput pretty much summed it up for me. I’m not sure now is the time to air grievances though.

The Church After Francis - First Things

I have personal memories of Pope Francis that I greatly value: a friendly and generous working relationship at the 1997 Synod on America when we were both newly appointed...

firstthings.com

And you all know I had issues with pope Francis as well. He has made a mess. A huge mess. We will see if the cardinals want a bigger mess or whether they want a cleanup instead.

If the cardinals vote for a cleanup, I think we need to help with a financial bailout of the Vatican. That is IF the cardinals actually pick a restorationist pope. We shall know in a few days. In the mean time I’m praying, and fasting to the extent that I am able, and I try to keep from being too caustic.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

It is not what the Cardinals want. It is what the Holy Spirit will allow and upon whom He puts His charism
What Pope Francis pontificate has shown us, myself included, is that many of us think we know enough to run the Catholic Church, to criticize the Pope, to be embarrassed by his teaching, to call him a heretic and consider leaving the Catholic Church.
Brothers and sisters, what are we thinking? How is this different from Luther, Calvin, Tyndale, Zwingli and all of the other reformers that have left the Catholic Church? How is this different from the disciples that left the Lord after the bread of life discourse?

Did Jesus chase them down and tell them you just don’t understand, let me give you a more clear explanation? We know that He did not. He asked His twelve chosen, are you going to leave me too? Peter said it best, Lord where else would we go, you alone have the words of eternal life.
We know from Vatican I, not Vatican II, that it is de fide, meaning of the faith that all Catholics must believe, that the Pope is the supreme leader of the Church and his decrees are unappealable. He holds the keys to the kingdom or heaven, one is teaching authority, to rebel against it is heresy, the other is political authority, to rebel against it is schism. Both types of rebellion are equally grave in evil.
When the Pope speaks, we owe him holy obedience to listen what he has to say, not what other people say that he said. As Christ asked His apostles, who do people say that I am? Some say this some that. Who do you say that I am? Peter said you are the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that to him.
It is the same way with the Pope. Who do you say I am? You are the Pope, his holiness, the Vicar of Christ. To believe that is to be Catholic, to deny it is to be Protestant.
Just as Jesus did not clarify His teaching, neither does the Pope have to clarify his before we follow it. We are under obligation to study it and compare it with Church teaching, not listen to nay sayers on the internet
I used to follow Michael Voris and liked what he had to say, but he was as overly critical of the hierarchy and it appears he got disciplined by God. I still see him as a man of faith but God took him down from his critical role.
We do not follow the hierarchy like blind robots; they are due respect for the office they hold. The Pope is no different but we owe him more respect.
There is no need to Popesplain or beg people not to criticize. I don’t care if they do. I know the Pope is the holy father and the Vicar of Christ
The accusations against Francis never turned out to be true. Some said he promoted sodomy, I don’t see that anywhere. I saw him offer a blessing that is offered to any soul in mortal sin. Any soul in mortal sin can stand in the communion line and instead of taking the sacrament, he folds his hands and receives a blessing. Francis offers the same to homosexuals to let them know God loves them and wants them for himself. Mortal sin is mortal sin. If some can present themselves for a blessing, who are we to deny others.
Francis was also accused of offering communion to divorced and remarried. That was also not true. Divorced and remarried can present themselves for communion only if they are in a state of grace. That means that their sin is confessed and they live a life of chastity. The penalty for communion under mortal sin remains, which would be in effect if they had sexual intercourse which would be adultery.

Francis challenged and confused us? So what? That is what he is supposed to do. The Church does not follow us, we submit to her authority.
The same was in Jesus’ day. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Oh Latin Mass lovers? You do know that the Novus Ordo confects the Eucharist right? If you say that you don’t like it, you are telling God you don’t like Him. When we follow Christ, we deny ourselves, that includes all of our tastes, desires and plans that we think we know better. As Catholics we look at the Pope and say not my will but thine be done.
Disagree or don’t get it? So what? Know the Pope, know the Catholic Church. No Pope? Then there is no Catholic Church.
I don’t know who the next Pope will be, but regardless of who it is, I follow one Holy Catholic and apostolic Church.
Where else is there to go? These are the words of eternal life

 

[Mountainmike]

It is not what the Cardinals want. It is what the Holy Spirit will allow and upon whom He puts His charism
What Pope Francis pontificate has shown us, myself included, is that many of us think we know enough to run the Catholic Church, to criticize the Pope, to be embarrassed by his teaching, to call him a heretic and consider leaving the Catholic Church.
Brothers and sisters, what are we thinking? How is this different from Luther, Calvin, Tyndale, Zwingli and all of the other reformers that have left the Catholic Church? How is this different from the disciples that left the Lord after the bread of life discourse?

Did Jesus chase them down and tell them you just don’t understand, let me give you a more clear explanation? We know that He did not. He asked His twelve chosen, are you going to leave me too? Peter said it best, Lord where else would we go, you alone have the words of eternal life.
We know from Vatican I, not Vatican II, that it is de fide, meaning of the faith that all Catholics must believe, that the Pope is the supreme leader of the Church and his decrees are unappealable. He holds the keys to the kingdom or heaven, one is teaching authority, to rebel against it is heresy, the other is political authority, to rebel against it is schism. Both types of rebellion are equally grave in evil.
When the Pope speaks, we owe him holy obedience to listen what he has to say, not what other people say that he said. As Christ asked His apostles, who do people say that I am? Some say this some that. Who do you say that I am? Peter said you are the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that to him.
It is the same way with the Pope. Who do you say I am? You are the Pope, his holiness, the Vicar of Christ. To believe that is to be Catholic, to deny it is to be Protestant.
Just as Jesus did not clarify His teaching, neither does the Pope have to clarify his before we follow it. We are under obligation to study it and compare it with Church teaching, not listen to nay sayers on the internet
I used to follow Michael Voris and liked what he had to say, but he was as overly critical of the hierarchy and it appears he got disciplined by God. I still see him as a man of faith but God took him down from his critical role.
We do not follow the hierarchy like blind robots; they are due respect for the office they hold. The Pope is no different but we owe him more respect.
There is no need to Popesplain or beg people not to criticize. I don’t care if they do. I know the Pope is the holy father and the Vicar of Christ
The accusations against Francis never turned out to be true. Some said he promoted sodomy, I don’t see that anywhere. I saw him offer a blessing that is offered to any soul in mortal sin. Any soul in mortal sin can stand in the communion line and instead of taking the sacrament, he folds his hands and receives a blessing. Francis offers the same to homosexuals to let them know God loves them and wants them for himself. Mortal sin is mortal sin. If some can present themselves for a blessing, who are we to deny others.
Francis was also accused of offering communion to divorced and remarried. That was also not true. Divorced and remarried can present themselves for communion only if they are in a state of grace. That means that their sin is confessed and they live a life of chastity. The penalty for communion under mortal sin remains, which would be in effect if they had sexual intercourse which would be adultery.

Francis challenged and confused us? So what? That is what he is supposed to do. The Church does not follow us, we submit to her authority.
The same was in Jesus’ day. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Oh Latin Mass lovers? You do know that the Novus Ordo confects the Eucharist right? If you say that you don’t like it, you are telling God you don’t like Him. When we follow Christ, we deny ourselves, that includes all of our tastes, desires and plans that we think we know better. As Catholics we look at the Pope and say not my will but thine be done.
Disagree or don’t get it? So what? Know the Pope, know the Catholic Church. No Pope? Then there is no Catholic Church.
I don’t know who the next Pope will be, but regardless of who it is, I follow one Holy Catholic and apostolic Church.
Where else is there to go? These are the words of eternal life

It’s true a lot of what Francis said was misrepresented. It’s the way of our hateful world.

As a late convert who did not grow up with the Latin mass, I struggle with that!
At grammar school I had to learn Latin although I have forgotten most of it.

But the Real problem I have with it, is that at least the version I attend from time to time ( fssp) is not even spoken out loud in parts , including the consecration, and the congregation affirmations are few and far between , so it is very hard to feel a sense of involvement, or engagement, or even to follow it!

So I am happywith the present mass.
It’s not about language ( I often listen in portuguese or French) but about the structure. The differences interest me though. Even simple things Are different . The response to “ the lord be with you” in English is “ and with your spirit” direct translation of “ dominus vobiscum” “ cum spiritu tuo”
but in Portuguese means something rather different “ He is amongst us” . “ o senhor e convosco” “ Ele esta no meio de nos” . I wonder why?

 

[WarriorAngel]

I learned a few things..

1. Respect the Chair

2. Not everyone is going to agree with the Pope on non doctrinal matters.

3. We don’t always have the whole story.

4. The world is apt to misinform and misinterpret

5. Don’t or try fervently not to judge the Pope when matters are not entirely clear because the Church has always had enemies and skeptics

6. Just pray for the Pope and continue under all tests to Trust the Lord Jesus and His permanent promise.

Peace

I myself have avoided my best to let myself get annoyed by the reports pro or con.
Too many times I feel that the enemy has sown confusion and Pope Leo had a vision for a reason

 

[chevyontheriver]

It is not what the Cardinals want. It is what the Holy Spirit will allow and upon whom He puts His charism
What Pope Francis pontificate has shown us, myself included, is that many of us think we know enough to run the Catholic Church, to criticize the Pope, to be embarrassed by his teaching, to call him a heretic and consider leaving the Catholic Church.
Brothers and sisters, what are we thinking? How is this different from Luther, Calvin, Tyndale, Zwingli and all of the other reformers that have left the Catholic Church? How is this different from the disciples that left the Lord after the bread of life discourse?

Did Jesus chase them down and tell them you just don’t understand, let me give you a more clear explanation? We know that He did not. He asked His twelve chosen, are you going to leave me too? Peter said it best, Lord where else would we go, you alone have the words of eternal life.
We know from Vatican I, not Vatican II, that it is de fide, meaning of the faith that all Catholics must believe, that the Pope is the supreme leader of the Church and his decrees are unappealable. He holds the keys to the kingdom or heaven, one is teaching authority, to rebel against it is heresy, the other is political authority, to rebel against it is schism. Both types of rebellion are equally grave in evil.
When the Pope speaks, we owe him holy obedience to listen what he has to say, not what other people say that he said. As Christ asked His apostles, who do people say that I am? Some say this some that. Who do you say that I am? Peter said you are the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that to him.
It is the same way with the Pope. Who do you say I am? You are the Pope, his holiness, the Vicar of Christ. To believe that is to be Catholic, to deny it is to be Protestant.
Just as Jesus did not clarify His teaching, neither does the Pope have to clarify his before we follow it. We are under obligation to study it and compare it with Church teaching, not listen to nay sayers on the internet
I used to follow Michael Voris and liked what he had to say, but he was as overly critical of the hierarchy and it appears he got disciplined by God. I still see him as a man of faith but God took him down from his critical role.
We do not follow the hierarchy like blind robots; they are due respect for the office they hold. The Pope is no different but we owe him more respect.
There is no need to Popesplain or beg people not to criticize. I don’t care if they do. I know the Pope is the holy father and the Vicar of Christ
The accusations against Francis never turned out to be true. Some said he promoted sodomy, I don’t see that anywhere. I saw him offer a blessing that is offered to any soul in mortal sin. Any soul in mortal sin can stand in the communion line and instead of taking the sacrament, he folds his hands and receives a blessing. Francis offers the same to homosexuals to let them know God loves them and wants them for himself. Mortal sin is mortal sin. If some can present themselves for a blessing, who are we to deny others.
Francis was also accused of offering communion to divorced and remarried. That was also not true. Divorced and remarried can present themselves for communion only if they are in a state of grace. That means that their sin is confessed and they live a life of chastity. The penalty for communion under mortal sin remains, which would be in effect if they had sexual intercourse which would be adultery.

Francis challenged and confused us? So what? That is what he is supposed to do. The Church does not follow us, we submit to her authority.
The same was in Jesus’ day. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Oh Latin Mass lovers? You do know that the Novus Ordo confects the Eucharist right? If you say that you don’t like it, you are telling God you don’t like Him. When we follow Christ, we deny ourselves, that includes all of our tastes, desires and plans that we think we know better. As Catholics we look at the Pope and say not my will but thine be done.
Disagree or don’t get it? So what? Know the Pope, know the Catholic Church. No Pope? Then there is no Catholic Church.
I don’t know who the next Pope will be, but regardless of who it is, I follow one Holy Catholic and apostolic Church.
Where else is there to go? These are the words of eternal life

Nope.

The election of a pope by the cardinals is not an infallible act. God may permit bad popes and has done so several times. Cardinal Ratzinger made that very point before he was elected pope.

And popes have limited infallibility, and limited authority. Sometimes they must be stood up to. Sometimes we have to do that ourselves.

Francis was the actual pope. Doesn’t make him impeccable, doesn’t make him a saint, doesn’t make his appointments infallible. Doesn’t make his random opinions golden. He got to do what he wanted to the Church. He had that authority. Now it will be someone else’s turn. Hopefully much of what he did will be undone just as so much of John Paul’s and Benedict’s work was undone by pope Francis.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Nope.

The election of a pope by the cardinals is not an infallible act. God may permit bad popes and has done so several times. Cardinal Ratzinger made that very point before he was elected pope.

And popes have limited infallibility, and limited authority. Sometimes they must be stood up to. Sometimes we have to do that ourselves.

Francis was the actual pope. Doesn’t make him impeccable, doesn’t make him a saint, doesn’t make his appointments infallible. Doesn’t make his random opinions golden. He got to do what he wanted to the Church. He had that authority. Now it will be someone else’s turn. Hopefully much of what he did will be undone just as so much of John Paul’s and Benedict’s work was undone by pope Francis.

God has permitted bad Popes, as history has shown us. The election of a Pope may not be what we want, but his election is unquestionable.

It is not our place to undermine a pontificate because it is not to our liking. Only another Pope has the authority to call a Pope a heretic.
It is not for the “clickbait” internet to start sprouting accusations and lamentations, oh no the Pope is a heretic oh my.
It is our place to contemplate and study what the Pope teaches and prayerfully ask God why He is allowing this. That is the more virtuous course of humility, and it comes from fear of the Lord.
We have been given the warning from Our Lord Himself in no uncertain terms. The same measure that we use to judge another will be used to judge us. Does that not strike fear into anyone? If we listen to the judgment of others to come to a conclusion without researching the facts for ourselves, the Lord will allow the opinions of others to judge us. God also says, by our own words shall we be justified or condemned. That is really scary

I want to be judged by God’s mercy, not by my grossly fallible opinions or careless words, so I do what God says. Reserve judgement to God, and direct my judgements away from flesh and blood, but to principalities and powers and spirits which have already received the condemnation of God.
I am certainly not qualified to stand in judgment of a flesh and blood Pope, my knowledge is incomplete. I would rather be labeled a popesplainer than to succumb to the lynch mob mentality which will be condemned at the judgment seat of Christ

Prayerfully consider all of our thoughts and control our tongues, deny ourselves and take up our cross so that everything is captive for the Lord

 

[chevyontheriver]

God has permitted bad Popes, as history has shown us.

Yes, but you are judging them.

The election of a Pope may not be what we want, but his election is unquestionable.

The cardinals are individually and cumulatively fallible. They have no charism of infallibility.

It is not our place to undermine a pontificate because it is not to our liking. Only another Pope has the authority to call a Pope a heretic.

Only another pope has the authority to judge another pope a heretic. We can see with our own eyes and we have a duty in canon law to speak of our concerns.

It is not for the “clickbait” internet to start sprouting accusations and lamentations, oh no the Pope is a heretic oh my.
It is our place to contemplate and study what the Pope teaches and prayerfully ask God why He is allowing this.

Why was Pachamama allowed? Why are all religions now said to be paths to God?

That is the more virtuous course of humility, and it comes from fear of the Lord.
We have been given the warning from Our Lord Himself in no uncertain terms. The same measure that we use to judge another will be used to judge us. Does that not strike fear into anyone? If we listen to the judgment of others to come to a conclusion without researching the facts for ourselves, the Lord will allow the opinions of others to judge us. God also says, by our own words shall we be justified or condemned. That is really scary.

One needs to be careful, merciful, and truthful. As archbishop Chaput has said it is a time for candor. We do not have the luxury not to have candor.

I want to be judged by God’s mercy, not by my grossly fallible opinions or careless words, so I do what God says. Reserve judgement to God, and direct my judgements away from flesh and blood, but to principalities and powers and spirits which have already received the condemnation of God.
I am certainly not qualified to stand in judgment of a flesh and blood Pope, my knowledge is incomplete. I would rather be labeled a popesplainer than to succumb to the lynch mob mentality which will be condemned at the judgment seat of Christ

I tried popesplaining for years. I was halfway good at it. I worked hard at mental gymnastics. But I couldn’t keep it up. I did not ‘join a lynch mob’ instead but left the unexplainable undefended. Most often I would say, with pope John XXIII, “Lord, it’s your Church. I’m going to bed.”

Prayerfully consider all of our thoughts and control our tongues, deny ourselves and take up our cross so that everything is captive for the Lord

Indeed. But not with rose colored glasses. Praying for the pope, that’s the thing. Not suspending seeing.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Yes, but you are judging them.

The cardinals are individually and cumulatively fallible. They have no charism of infallibility.

Only another pope has the authority to judge another pope a heretic. We can see with our own eyes and we have a duty in canon law to speak of our concerns.

Why was Pachamama allowed? Why are all religions now said to be paths to God?

One needs to be careful, merciful, and truthful. As archbishop Chaput has said it is a time for candor. We do not have the luxury not to have candor.

I tried popesplaining for years. I was halfway good at it. I worked hard at mental gymnastics. But I couldn’t keep it up. I did not ‘join a lynch mob’ instead but left the unexplainable undefended. Most often I would say, with pope John XXIII, “Lord, it’s your Church. I’m going to bed.”

Indeed. But not with rose colored glasses. Praying for the pope, that’s the thing. Not suspending seeing.

No one suggests suspending seeing and all of your thoughts deserve contemplation
Where the line is drawn is casting doubt and grumbling about the Pope saying he is illegitimate a heretic or another word of disrespect.

The college of cardinals is guided by the Holy Spirit when they elect the Pope. The man elected is the Vicar of Christ period. To say that he is not is to cease to be Catholic. Review Vatican I

If we grumble we run the risk of denying God
When tempted to grumble, consider Psalm 95 Douay rheims

The Israelites complained against God and grumbled against Moses. They saw all of God’s works. The parting of the Red Sea. The cloud by day and pilar of fire by night , and they complained that they were lead out into the desert to starve and die of thirst. They provoked God. He heard them and satisfied their hunger and thirst, but He swore in His wrath that they should not enter into His rest

Do you ever consider this when it is proposed to grumble against Church leaders. What good would complaining do? You may provoke God and get your way, but the Lord will not be pleased

God told us what to do if we think we have bad leaders, and it has nothing to do with complaining

2chronicles7 gives us instruction

13 If I shut up heaven, and there fall no rain, or if I give orders, and command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people: 14 And my people, upon whom my name is called, being converted, shall make supplication to me, and seek out my face, and do penance for their most wicked ways: then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sins and will heal their land. 15 My eyes also shall be open, and my ears attentive to the prayer of him that shall pray in this place.

16 For I have chosen, and have sanctified this place, that my name may be there for ever, and my eyes and my heart may remain there perpetually. 17 And as for thee, if thou walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and keep my justices and my judgments: 18 I will raise up the throne of thy kingdom, as I promised to David thy father, saying: There shall not fail thee a man of thy stock to be ruler in Israel. 19 But if you turn away, and forsake my justices, and my commandments which I have set before you, and shall go and serve strange gods, and adore them, 20 I will pluck you up by the root out of my land which I have given you: and this house which I have sanctified to my name, I will cast away from before my face, and will make it a byword, and an example among all nations.




Is not the Catholic Church the house which God has sanctified to His name? And if so, what good does it do to grumble against a Pope? If we degrade our own Church, would the Lord not make us an example and byword among the nations?


I would have expected more from you Chevy, we don’t raise our hand against God’s anointed. If we think there is error, we stop and contemplate why it is happening. The Protestants will mock us and say they are right that the Church has apostasized. Do we believe them or turn ourselves to seek the face of God?