Muslims blowing up the world and who cares?

[Armoured]

Proving my point again.

It doesn't matter what Muslims do. What matters is what other people do.

I never said it doesn't matter what Muslims do. That doesn't make it OK to judge Muslims by a different standard to what you judge anyone else by.

I said before, condemn Islamic violence all you want. Most people, including Muslims, will be happy to agree with you.

 

[Armoured]

Here's a pastor who wants to stone gays. I'm sure I can find one who wants to stone adulterers if I look for a bit longer
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/04/pas...for-not-supporting-death-by-stoning-for-gays/

Either way, that's not the point. Not all Muslims want to stone adulterers, and living under sharia law does not require stoning adulterers. That is, again, a local practice. There are plenty of places that have sharia law where no such punishment is mandated.

 

[Kevin Ambrose]

I can read them John 8 to tell them why that's wrong.

What verse of the Quran forbids stoning adulterers?

 

[Armoured]

I can read them John 8 to tell them why that's wrong.

Cool goal post shift

What verse of the Quran forbids stoning adulterers?

I don't believe there is one. What verse in the Torah forbids it?

 

[Kevin Ambrose]

Cool goal post shift
I don't believe there is one. What verse in the Torah forbids it?

I don't believe there is one.

Do you see why Christianity might be the morally superior option?

 

[Armoured]

I don't believe there is one.

Do you see why Christianity might be the morally superior option?

That's not the point at discussion. I believe Christianity is superior for all sorts of reasons, that's not what we're talking about.

 

[Wolseley]

Is he a "moderate" Muslim, a "jihadist" Muslim, a "hard-line" Muslim, a Muslim who advocates Sharia, or a Muslim who believes in female genital mutilation and honor killings? How do you sort them all out?

This all reminds me of a system that was used as a practical rule of thumb some 50 years ago.

Is he a Viet Cong, a Vietnamese civilian, North Vietnamese, South Vietnamese Communist, South Vietnamese supporter of the National Government, or a hostile guerrilla towards all parties?

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Except to point out that we have to acknowledge that some Muslims aren't blowing up the world. Wake up people

Cue the delirious sycophants who would cut of their nose to spite themselves and reality.
Prepare for incredulous feigned responses like "huh"! Also prepare to be called names such as Islamophobe.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

The US should look at Europe a continent that has completely capitulated to political correctiness and is now reaping in the whirlwind.

The innocents are the ones who suffer.

 

[timewerx]

How many people have been blown up by Americans in the same period? Feel free to include Africa and the Middle East in your working.

Over a million in the war against terror and insurgency.

Be reminded however of who started it and which side tends to hide among civilians and use civilians as human shield.

 

[timewerx]

Not sure what your point is. You can criticise violent or extremist Muslims all you like, I doubt anyone will disagree with you, including 93% of Muslims. The point here is that the minority of Muslims don't justify vilification of the majority. Same way the KKK doesn't justify vilification of all Christians.

In some regions of Africa, we may be looking something bigger than a minority.

The problem usually becomes apparent when they become bigger in numbers. Muslims tend to procreate more than anyone else and the rates get higher as the education level of the group goes lower (women aren't usually educated in Islam).

Muslim population growth - Wikipedia
Data Highlights - 13: Education Leads to Lower Fertility and Increased Prosperity | EPI

We are looking at a future decades down the road of a Muslim majority with relatively low education levels.

It is often the low-educated Muslims who become religious fundamentalists or worse, religious extremists.

 

[timewerx]

Given that upwards of 90% of Muslims in Middle-Eastern nations want Sharia I'd say that's much higher. The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society

Or are you saying that Sharia isn't radical? Is that acceptable for Western society?

When I worked in the Middle East, most of my Muslim colleagues in Saudi Arabia did not like Sharia.

In fact, we were in a city in Saudi where Sharia is least or only lightly enforced. Many of my colleagues actually moved in the city because of the minimal enforcement of Sharia.

However, my knowledge may not accurately represent statistics as most of my colleagues were also Western educated. Many of them actually went to college in USA or UK schools, they have been "westernized" in a big way.

I did not get the opportunity to talk to anyone else. The less educated groups are much more likely to cause offense or harass as I have experienced many times so I tend to avoid them completely.

 

[JD16]

Over a million in the war against terror and insurgency.

Be reminded however of who started it and which side tends to hide among civilians and use civilians as human shield.

Who started it? The fighting between religious groups has been going on for as long as religious groups existed....its a blood feud that is self perpetuating and will never end unless some middle ground can be reach.

But if the current mindset is such that both sides view each other as unworthy to live,...the blood shall continue to flow,...not only our generation, but our children and their children will continue to pay the price for a fight that was started in ancient history, and serve no purpose except to bring misery to the human race.

 

[timewerx]

Who started it? The fighting between religious groups has been going on for as long as religious groups existed....its a blood feud that is self perpetuating and will never end unless some middle ground can be reach.

But if the current mindset is such that both sides view each other as unworthy to live,...the blood shall continue to flow,...not only our generation, but our children and their children will continue to pay the price for a fight that was started in ancient history, and serve no purpose except to bring misery to the human race.

Didn't cross my mind.

I'm only thinking of banning the religion.

Tolerance = Sharia Law for your grand grand kids.

 

[JD16]

Didn't cross my mind.

I'm only thinking of banning the religion.

Tolerance = Sharia Law for your grand grand kids.

Banning the religion? I value freedom of choice, allowing each to his own,....and as long as the country is secular, and we fight to protect that,..I'm all for it. ISIS does not represent Islam, same as the former IRA does not represent Catholics.

Tolerance works both ways, we do not oppress them, while not letting ourselves be oppressed at the same time. I advocate dialogue and seek understanding,....I know its pretty much wishful thinking, but we must not give up hope for the sake of our children,...I hope to leave a better world for them and their children

 

[timewerx]

Banning the religion? I value freedom of choice

If you value freedom of choice, then you wouldn't object if Muslims want Sharia Law and enforcement of it?

 

[JD16]

If you value freedom of choice, then you wouldn't object if Muslims want Sharia Law and enforcement of it?

Freedom of choice means just that, I have my choice, while you have yours,....how did you equate that with the enforcement of Sharia Law, since that would impose on everyone who is not a muslim?
No, it means that I would live and let live, let anyone practice what they believe or choose to not believe,....a secular society, and I would fight to the death to protect that.

 

[timewerx]

Freedom of choice means just that, I have my choice, while you have yours,....how did you equate that with the enforcement of Sharia Law, since that would impose on everyone who is not a muslim?

Observation of Sharia Law is a fundamental right of some Muslim sects. It forms their basis of order and to them, it's quite an important thing.

Are you actually allowing giving Muslims equal freedom if you do not allow them to observe an important part of their religion so that the non-Muslims are free to do whatever they wish as Western culture allows?

No, it means that I would live and let live, let anyone practice what they believe or choose to not believe,...

Would you allow Muslims to enforce Sharia Law then?

 

[JD16]

Observation of Sharia Law is a fundamental right of some Muslim sects. It forms their basis of order and to them, it's quite an important thing.

Are you actually allowing giving Muslims equal freedom if you do not allow them to observe an important part of their religion so that the non-Muslims are free to do whatever they wish as Western culture allows?

What I would propose is that, they are free to practice Sharia Law for muslims only, a good example would be Malaysia, its a multicultural society that is secular and they have 2 types of judicial system setup, the common law for all non muslims, and sharia law only for muslims,....and its also a choice for muslims to be prosecuted under which law. Should a dispute arise between a muslim and non muslim, its automatically handled under common law.

And if you look into Sharia Law, no muslim majority country outside of the M.E practice it in full, ...the malaysian example for instance does not practice beheading, amputation, stoning to death, honor killing, wife beating or female genital mutilation....

Sharia Law is pretty much localize, with each region practicing its own version of it....most practice the milder version of it and just observe the basics such as no alcohol, halal food, no pork, prayers 5 times a day, mosque on fridays and hijab for the ladies and in some places segregation of genders for muslims only....

The more hardcore version is practiced mainly in the M.E , which I mention earlier is greatly infused with their local customs and culture. Non muslims in Malaysia are under no obligation to observe such practices and cannot be prosecuted under Sharia Law

If muslims are agreeable to live under such a system, I certainly would not object,...those that seek to imposed it upon all, those are the one that I object to and will fight against

 

[timewerx]

The more hardcore version is practiced mainly in the M.E

Add Africa to that. So you're actually dealing with a large number of Muslims who are fundamentalists in their beliefs.

those that seek to imposed it upon all, those are the one that I object to and will fight against

It is a Muslim right depending on the sect. If you wish to fight that then you are denying them such right.

You probably wouldn't understand it unless you lived under Sharia Law for some years.

Religious tolerance doesn't really work.