LDS Mormon Jesus Versus Christian Jesus

[Christian Apologist]

The Bible and The Book of Mormon is clear Jesus before he came to earth was
The great I AM the self-existing God without a Father or Mother and he wasn't created since Jesus was the Supreme creator of all creation


Hebrews 7
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Without father, without mother,
without descent,
having neither beginning of days, nor end of life
; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Micah 5
2: But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel.
His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.



Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power,
the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity,
shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

Mosiah 15
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and
the Son, because of the flesh;
thus becoming the Father and Son


Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church:


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


Rev 3: 14 To the angel (divine messenger) of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the trusted and faithful and true Witness, the Beginning and Origin of God's creation:

3 Nephi 9: 15 “Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name.


The Book of Helaman
Chapter 14:
12 And that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.

Notice that Mormons disagree with The Bible and Book of Mormon on the person and nature of Jesus and so have him completely wrong



The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak as been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the matters of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Church News, June 20, 1998, p70) Gordon B Hinckley

( for a change I agree with Gordon )

We Look to Christ 2002 General Conference April

 

[Christian Apologist]

 

[Christian Apologist]

Mormons teach there god was a fallen, exalted, saved, finite man like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

"The Gods who dwell in the Heaven...have been redeemed from the grave in a world which existed before the foundations of this earth were laid. They and the Heavenly body which they now inhabit were once in a fallen state....they were exalted also, from fallen men to Celestial Gods to inhabit their Heaven forever and ever." (Apostle Orson Pratt in The Seer, page 23)


Would you think fallen means sinner In the 1844 LDS publication, Times and Seasons, volume 5, pages 613-614,... Joseph Smith reiterated that God was an exalted man and that Mormon men could also become Gods. This teaching is well documented, as is their claim that God is not a spirit being, but that he has a body of flesh and bone.

“God is a perfected, saved soul enjoying eternal life.” (Second Counselor in the First Presidency, Marion G. Romney, as per Salt Lake Tribune, April 3, 1977.)

It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being; and yet we are not in such close communion with him as many have supposed. He has passed on, and is exalted far beyond what we can now comprehend. Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 334

“The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same." (Apostle Bruce McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64).


Doctrine and Covenant’s 132:

20: 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

 

[GodLovesCats]

How is it possible to believe the Bible is true and at the same time deny there is only one God?

 

[Rescued One]

@ChristianForCats

The PR is to tell non-Mormons how much they love the Bible. But I want to share what the Book of Mormon says:

24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13:24-29
1 Nephi 13

'Now, all the world today, I am sorry to say, with the exception of a handful of people who have obeyed the new and everlasting covenant, are suffering this spiritual death. They are cast out from the presence of God. They are without God, without Gospel truth, and without the power of redemption; for they know not God nor His Gospel. In order that they may be redeemed and saved from the spiritual death which has spread over the world like a pall, they must repent of their sins, and be baptized by one having [LDS] authority, for the remission of sins, that they may be born of God. That is why we want these young men to go out into the world to preach the Gospel. While they themselves understand but little perhaps, the germ of life is in them'"
(President Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, Oct. 1899, p. 72)
Book of Mormon Student Manual, Copyright 1989, p. 111


Today there is much controversy and contention among the doctrines and philosophies of men relative to the requirements for entrance into the kingdom of God. Many have been deceived by the teachings of men that works and obedience to God’s commandments are not essential, and some base their contention on scriptures. For example, Paul said, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Eph. 2:8–9.)

...Contrary to what many think, just believing in God and being virtuous and pure are not sufficient to qualify a person for entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

...People who accept and live doctrines of men do not know the living God.
Bernard P. Brockbank, “Entrance into the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, January 1973, p. 44


Studying the Book of Mormon is a powerful way to know God. The Prophet Joseph Smith said,

“The Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on earth…and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts than by any other book.”

A modern apostle, Elder Bruce R. McConkie, said,

“Man’s purpose in life is to learn the nature and kind of being that God is, and then by conforming to his laws and ordinances, to progress to that high state of exaltation wherein man becomes perfect as the Father is perfect.”
(The link has been deleted or changed.)
https://www.comeuntochrist.org/site/book-of-mormon?

Those who do not have the Spirit of the Lord are unable to discern the workings of God. The Apostle Paul taught that “the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14). On the day of Pentecost many of the Jews thought the disciples were drunk (see Acts 2:1–13), and some of the people in Enoch’s day took Enoch for a wild man (see Moses 6:38). The reactions of the Lamanites when they saw Ammon and the household of King Lamoni in a trance, overpowered by the Spirit, were similar.
Book of Mormon Student Manual, 1996, p. 81-82

 

[Rescued One]

View attachment 256245

Can you give us the primary sources for these statements?

 

[Christian Apologist]

How is it possible to believe the Bible is true and at the same time deny there is only one God?

Very true, even the Book of Mormon teaches only ONE GOD exists​

 

[Ironhold]

How is it possible to believe the Bible is true and at the same time deny there is only one God?

Something that many critics of the church fail to explain is that in LDS theology, there is a significant difference between "God" and "god".

The former is reserved solely for Heavenly Father, while the latter is used to refer to any figure who has achieved an exalted position; the latter usage actually goes back to Psalms 82, where high-level earthly political leaders were given that title for rhethorical purposes.

Once a person understands this, most of the "God" / "god" arguments vaporize.

 

[Christian Apologist]

Something that many critics of the church fail to explain is that in LDS theology, there is a significant difference between "God" and "god".

The former is reserved solely for Heavenly Father, while the latter is used to refer to any figure who has achieved an exalted position; the latter usage actually goes back to Psalms 82, where high-level earthly political leaders were given that title for rhethorical purposes.

Once a person understands this, most of the "God" / "god" arguments vaporize.

GOD is used for Jehovah, who Mormon designate as Jesus​

Selections from Answers to Gospel Questions
Taken from the writings of Joseph Fielding Smith
Tenth President of Mormonism
A course Study for the Melchizedek Priesthood Quorums
1972-73

Lesson 6 page 39
It was Jesus who gave commandments to Adam after he was driven out of the Garden of Eden and who directed Enoch and Noah before the flood. It was Christ who named Abraham and made him that through his posterity all nations would be blessed. He, it was who called Moses to lead Isreal out of Egypt and who wrote with his fingers on the tables of stone. He had no body until he was born in Bethlehem.
​

 

[Ironhold]

I want to speak with people, not have them lob random web links and generic images.

 

[Christian Apologist]

I want to speak with people, not have them lob random web links and generic images.

That image [chart] I personally made and links are normally my own personal blog

 

[He is the way]

That image [chart] I personally made and links are normally my own personal blog

We know your charts are not based on facts and are very biased.

 

[Christian Apologist]

We know your charts are not based on facts and are very biased.

 

[Christian Apologist]

The Book of Mormon agrees with the 4th and 5th century Creeds ​

 

[Peter1000]

Mormons teach there god was a fallen, exalted, saved, finite man like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

"The Gods who dwell in the Heaven...have been redeemed from the grave in a world which existed before the foundations of this earth were laid. They and the Heavenly body which they now inhabit were once in a fallen state....they were exalted also, from fallen men to Celestial Gods to inhabit their Heaven forever and ever." (Apostle Orson Pratt in The Seer, page 23)


Would you think fallen means sinner In the 1844 LDS publication, Times and Seasons, volume 5, pages 613-614,... Joseph Smith reiterated that God was an exalted man and that Mormon men could also become Gods. This teaching is well documented, as is their claim that God is not a spirit being, but that he has a body of flesh and bone.

“God is a perfected, saved soul enjoying eternal life.” (Second Counselor in the First Presidency, Marion G. Romney, as per Salt Lake Tribune, April 3, 1977.)

It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being; and yet we are not in such close communion with him as many have supposed. He has passed on, and is exalted far beyond what we can now comprehend. Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 334

“The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same." (Apostle Bruce McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64).


Doctrine and Covenant’s 132:

20: 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

Yes, God the Father had to go through the same process that you are going through in order for Him to harmonize justice, mercy, and grace. In order to be God, and create and sons and daughters, and judge them, He had to know what process they had just went through. That is why Jesus came to earth and went through the same process as we are going through. So he can judge righteously.

Jesus said that he can do nothing except what he saw his Father do. His Father did exactly what Jesus did.

 

[Christian Apologist]

Yes, God the Father had to go through the same process that you are going through in order for Him to harmonize justice, mercy, and grace. In order to be God, and create and sons and daughters, and judge them, He had to know what process they had just went through. That is why Jesus came to earth and went through the same process as we are going through. So he can judge righteously.

Jesus said that he can do nothing except what he saw his Father do. His Father did exactly what Jesus did.

Wasn't Jesus GOD before he became man ? Why would Jesus go through that process if he was GOD from Eternity ?

Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

Mosiah 5:15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

Very clear that Mormons have a different Christ than Christians and The Book of Mormon. Even there Prophets teaches that .

 

[He is the way]

Wasn't Jesus GOD before he became man ? Why would Jesus go through that process if he was GOD from Eternity ?

Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

Mosiah 5:15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

Very clear that Mormons have a different Christ than Christians and The Book of Mormon. Even there Prophets teaches that .

Even Jesus had to be perfected:

(New Testament | Luke 2:52)

52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

(New Testament | Hebrews 2:17 - 18)

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

(New Testament | Luke 13:32)

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:8 - 9)

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[Christian Apologist]

Even Jesus had to be perfected:

(New Testament | Luke 2:52)

52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

(New Testament | Hebrews 2:17 - 18)

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

(New Testament | Luke 13:32)

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:8 - 9)

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Didn't Jesus lay aside Equality, wealth, joy and glory when he became man, but before wasn't he the all-powerful God [omnipotent God]

Jesus Stripped his equality, wealth, Joy and Glory with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and humbled himself to the form of a servant .


”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version


“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.” 2 Cor. 8:9


Hebrews 12

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.


John 17

“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Thank you Jesus for coming down from your throne in heaven where you were the Almighty God, “EL SHADDAI”, The Great I AM creator of all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, and principalities and powers . You were rich yet you became poor. You were Almighty yet you emptied yourself and became a humble slave, you exchanged joy for sorrow , sorrow by dying a shameful death on a cross as a criminal even thou you had no sin . Thank you Jesus

 

[He is the way]

Didn't Jesus lay aside Equality, wealth, joy and glory when he became man, but before wasn't he the all-powerful God [omnipotent God]

Jesus Stripped his equality, wealth, Joy and Glory with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and humbled himself to the form of a servant .


”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version


“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.” 2 Cor. 8:9


Hebrews 12

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.


John 17

“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Thank you Jesus for coming down from your throne in heaven where you were the Almighty God, “EL SHADDAI”, The Great I AM creator of all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, and principalities and powers . You were rich yet you became poor. You were Almighty yet you emptied yourself and became a humble slave, you exchanged joy for sorrow , sorrow by dying a shameful death on a cross as a criminal even thou you had no sin . Thank you Jesus

I prefer the KJV rendering:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 11)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


We know that the Father is Father and the God of Jesus:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 

[Peter1000]

Wasn't Jesus GOD before he became man ? Why would Jesus go through that process if he was GOD from Eternity ?

Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

Mosiah 5:15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

He could not be fully God until he went through the same process that his God and his Father went through.