Moriah and Golgotha

[visionary]

Are they the same place? The place where our Messiah Yeshua was crucified, was it very same place where Abraham took his only son Isaac to be slained and sacrificed?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yes, same piece of rock

 

[Alithis]

evidence ?

dont worry i don't disbelieve it ..it would make perfect sense .i want to share it . but would like to do so with a little evidence

 

[Heber Book List]

Are they the same place? The place where our Messiah Yeshua was crucified, was it very same place where Abraham took his only son Isaac to be slained and sacrificed?

Was Yeshua crucified and buried on the same hill? That is a new argument from you

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The other silly thing is that "Garden Tomb". Oh...but it has a cliff that looks like a skull. It was not named because some cliff looked like a skull. It is "the place of the skull". Whose skull?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

evidence ?

dont worry i don't disbelieve it ..it would make perfect sense .i want to share it . but would like to do so with a little evidence

It is a geological fact that they are both located on the same bedrock. The quarry where Yeshua was crucified and buried is part of the same geological bedrock formation as Moriah.

 

[Heber Book List]

It is a geological fact that they are both located on the same bedrock. The quarry where Yeshua was crucified and buried is part of the same geological bedrock formation as Moriah.

I only queried Visionary's OP because, on another thread, she was implying that Yeshua was crucified somewhere on the Mount of Olives in exactly the place that would allow someone, at the moment of the crucifixion, to just happen to see right across the valley, through the line-up of gates on the Temple Mount, and watch the curtain being torn in two in the Temple. Of course, that would not be possible, if only because the altar for sacrifices would have been in the line of sight and, in any case, it was pitch dark with G_d's darkness; of course, he was not crucified and buried in one and the same place according to scripture.

 

[visionary]

Was Yeshua crucified and buried on the same hill? That is a new argument from you

Did I mention buried somewhere?? I am confused.

 

[visionary]

It is a geological fact that they are both located on the same bedrock. The quarry where Yeshua was crucified and buried is part of the same geological bedrock formation as Moriah.

Ahhh ....this is where the buried and crucified concept came from... not from me.

 

[Heber Book List]

Ahhh ....this is where the buried and crucified concept came from... not from me.

Sorry, it did come from you, by implication, in the OP

The OP says: "Are they the same place? The place where our Messiah Yeshua was crucified, was it very same place where Abraham took his only son Isaac to be slained and sacrificed?" (sic)

You asked this question about Mt Moriah and Golgotha. Golgotha doesn't really.

Error edited out :-(

 

[visionary]

Sorry, it did come from you, by implication, in the OP

The OP says: "Are they the same place? The place where our Messiah Yeshua was crucified, was it very same place where Abraham took his only son Isaac to be slained and sacrificed?" (sic)

You asked this question about Mt Moriah and Golgotha. Golgotha doesn't really come into it - that was his burial place, not his place of crucifixion. That is why I asked the question It was then picked up by the other poster, too.

So Golgotha is not the place of crucifixion but burial?? We’re told only that it was in a garden near the place of crucifixion (John 19:41).

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I only queried Visionary's OP because, on another thread, she was implying that Yeshua was crucified somewhere on the Mount of Olives in exactly the place that would allow someone, at the moment of the crucifixion, to just happen to see right across the valley, through the line-up of gates on the Temple Mount, and watch the curtain being torn in two in the Temple. Of course, that would not be possible, if only because the altar for sacrifices would have been in the line of sight and, in any case, it was pitch dark with G_d's darkness; of course, he was not crucified and buried in one and the same place according to scripture.

Yes I have heard of the theory before.

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[Heber Book List]

I think the OP is thinking of the Even ha-Sh'tiyah which is the Foundation Stone of the world and was situated in the Holy of Holies*. It is now under a large Islamic building on the Temple Mount. It is this stone which is regarded as the very centre of the world, which is why, of course, Jerusalem is regarded as being at the centre of the world. Jewish sources identify this rock as the place where Abram was called to offer Isaac as a sacrifice. The mountain is identified as Mt. Moriah in Genesis 22. It is also identified as the rock upon which Jacob dreamed about angels on a ladder and on which he offered a sacrifice.

*Some Jewish scholars think the rock might be located on another part of the Temple Mount, but they still ascribe the above to its importance.

 

[Heber Book List]

I think you will find that the plan above is incorrect. The Temple Mount itself is built facing true (magnetic) north, though with diverging walls. The Temple Sanctuary, however, was built to be on line of sight to the east (not true or magnetic east). This adjustment meant that the actual Temple Sanctuary was aligned to the wall in which the Shushan Gate was erected, through which there is the famous line of sight through all the Temple gates to the Holy of Holies, from the east. The various constructions around the Sanctuary were built to fit into the space and so were not all true square in shape.

 

[Heber Book List]

So Golgotha is not the place of crucifixion but burial?? We’re told only that it was in a garden near the place of crucifixion (John 19:41).

Yep, we all make mistakes at times! I got confused thinking about your previous claim that meant that he was crucified on the Mount of Olives in line of sight to the Holy of Holies, and trying to get my head around your current question in the OP. What I should have said is: if he was crucified at Golgotha, which has to be outside the city walls, and it is where you show it to be in the maps, how does that reconcile with him being crucified on the Mount of Olives, opposite the eastern face of the Temple Sanctuary as you have claimed previously? Or is that not the true Golgotha?

Here is where the confusion happens: your map above shows Golgotha to the west, along with Herod's palace, of the Temple sanctuary, which faces to the east, as I have pointed out to you before, I have no problem with that because Wilson's ramp was from the Palace to the rear of the Temple Sanctuary; in the past months they have discovered the path to the other arch on the Western Wall - Robinson's Arch - but that's another story. The drawing of the actual Temple (in your map showing the Antonia Fortress, highlighted) looks as if it is drawn the wrong way round - it should be facing east; the Antonia Fortress is on the north western end of the Temple Mount as shown correctly on that map. If Yeshua was put to death at either Golgotha OR at the Catholic equivalent, there is no way in the world that the Roman Soldier, or anyone else, could possibly see the Temple curtain that faces east, looking out over the eastern wall! You can't argue it both ways without causing confusion

Confusion reigned - sorry about the mistake.