• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

Monastary Icons-please read

Michael G

Abe Frohmann
Feb 22, 2004
33,441
11,984
51
Six-burgh, Pa
Visit site
✟103,091.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
There was a thread a few days ago about monastary icons, but it got deleted. I hope I did not offend anyone with the information I posted on the thread. I have known about these guys for quite a long time, and find this information quite serious. There are other much more Orthodox places to get mounted prints of icons. Try some of these links for icon prints:
http://www.comeandseeicons.com
http://www.apicons.com/
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/7771/
http://www.skete.com/

And now for a few words about monastary icons from: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/monasteryicons.htm

A Word About "Monastery Icons"
provided by Fr. Anthony Nelson

Updated September 15, 2000

The "Light of Christ Monastery" and the Convent of the Virgin Mary in Borrego Springs, CA., formerly the "Gnostic Orthodox" in Geneva, Nebraska (Holy Protection Gnostic Orthodox Monastery and the St. John of Kronstadt Gnostic Orthodox Convent) are "monastic communities" of self-styled monks and nuns. They began in Oklahoma City in the 70's, when their current "Patriarch"—Abbot Bishop George Burke—showed up in town (newly run away in the dead of night from the Holy Transfiguration Orthodox Monastery in Boston, where he had attached himself) calling himself "Swami" something-or-other (I can't begin to spell it).

He had been raised Church of God-Anderson, near Bloomington, Illinois, gravitated to Chicago and loosely affiliated himself with Roman Catholicism. After a while he began attending the Levitt Street OCA Cathedral, and later the Synod Cathedral, where he got himself baptized by Bishop Seraphim. He then migrated to California, where he joined with Yogananda, and worked P.R. for him. Then he went to Boston to Holy Transfiguration Monastery "to learn Orthodox monasticism"—according to him. In Oklahoma City he started a Hindu community that grew to about nine monks and three nuns. One day, in the late 70's, he announced to the brethren that they had "outgrown" the spiritual possibilities of Hinduism, and were going to become Christian. They then constituted themselves as the "Holy Protection Old Catholic Benedictine Monastery of the Primitive Observance." The Swami got himself consecrated a bishop by the self-styled "Old Catholic" bishop at St. Hilarion's Center in Austin, Texas (although he—the former "Swami"—stated categorically that it was unnecessary, because he had been a Roman Catholic bishop during the Middle Ages in a previous life!).

Many may remember this group as having been featured on various prime-time news shows (P.M. Magazine and Real People) in the late 70's/early 80's as constituting the volunteer Fire Department in the little town of Forest Park, Oklahoma, and also as raising ostriches on the grounds of their property. I remember seeing them on television one night while I was living at St. Tikhon's Seminary in Pennsylvania in about 1980, and wondering just what kind of "order" or "religion" they were. Little did I dream that I would come into intimate contact with them only a year or two later when I was assigned to Oklahoma City by the Antiochian Archdiocese.

In about 1981 "Bishop George" decided that they had outgrown Old Catholicism, and they became "Holy Protection Orthodox Monastery." They dressed as Orthodox monks and did the services impeccably well, as George had learned in Boston. Then, in 1985 or so, they remodeled their chapel again and became "Coptic"—serving their own version of the Liturgy of St. James and dressing in a form of Coptic monastic garb. They even succeeded in having Indian and Egyptian Coptic Christian clergy concelebrate with them, falsely claiming various kinds of non-Chalcedonian "Apostolic Succession" - claims which those Coptic Christians accepted without investigation.

I walked in on them one day and found them doing a curious service modeled after Hindu worship, in which they were offering fruit and flowers to the icons of Christ and the Theotokos in their chapel. The prayers were an interesting (although sacrilegious and blasphemous) blend of the Trisagion prayers and Hindu worship. During all of this, they maintained a second, secret chapel on the premises. Here they practiced magical evocation and demonolatry. I received into Orthodoxy several lay persons who were a part of their "secret Order"—coming from various Protestant backgrounds. These particular individuals finally began to wonder if they were really "Orthodox" and "Christian" when, on a trip to Texas with the monks, they saw the monks and nuns bow down before the idol in the Hare Krishna temple in Dallas, and Abbot Bishop George refused to bless the food served in the Krishna restaurant because "it was already blessed, having been offered to the idol." These former members of their cult and one former monk brought to me all of their secret rituals,vestments, history, and associated blasphemous and really frightening materials. It took me well over a year of working with these individuals to get them over their fear of the psychic and spiritual retaliation with which the Abbot had threatened them if they ever revealed the group's secrets. I still have these materials, and they would be laughable in their sophomoric secret-society silliness if they were not so seriously believed and practiced.

The group left Oklahoma under difficult circumstances in regard to legal problems concerning the estate of a novice (son of a powerful state politician) who died in India. All novices were required to make a pilgrimage to India to interview with, and receive the blessing of, one "Mother Anandamoy"—a Hindu holy woman—who must approve them for membership in the Community.

One of their former monks who had left the group and took a job in Oklahoma City (and personally continued their occult practices privately) once made the statement: "Orthodox Priests are like camels. They carry a cargo of immeasurable worth, with no comprehension of its value." The Daily Oklahoman, the largest circulation newspaper in the state, once carried a color picture on the front page of one of it's secondary sections depicting one of their "priests." He was shown sitting at a table during a regional "Psychic Fair" doing a Tarot Card reading.

On another occasion, after I had learned their secrets and forbade my parishioners to have anything to do with them, Abbot George announced during one of his sermons that he, in a previous life, had been one of the Christian Martyrs who suffered under Diocletian, and I (Fr. Anthony) was the Roman who led him to his martyrdom. He also claims that, during a pilgrimage to visit Mother Anandamoy in India, he was killed in a car accident in New Delhi, but because his "work" here was incomplete, was immediately reincarnated in his body and survived.

"Patriarch George" of the "Gnostic Orthodox Church" admitted in an interview in the Omaha World Herald that his "Patriarchate" covered only 5 or 6 acres. By the way, why they chose Nebraska is a mystery: Abbot Bishop George announced, following a visit to Hawaii for an international peace conference in approximately 1985, that the Goddess of one of the volcanos appeared to him and promised to give him the island if he would relocate his community there.

Apparently that offer was not good enough because, after first relocating in Nebraska, today they are the "Light of Christ Monastery" in California. They claim to be the exclusive remnant of a spurious so-called "Western Orthodox Church" descended from, the Syrian Jacobite (Monophysite) Church of the East.

They have one "iconographer" there who paints all their pictures (please, not icons). All are "blessed" with one of their occult rituals before being shipped, and they support themselves to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars per year selling the demonic things. Many Roman Catholic bookstores sell them but, happily, most Orthodox sellers of religious items have discovered who and what they are and no longer do business with them.

Please don't buy their pictures—they are spiritually very dangerous.
 

countrymousenc

Dances With Mop
Jan 26, 2004
1,838
19
70
North Carolina, USA
✟2,098.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
iconographer,

Thank you for this information. I had bookmarked their website (but didn't purchase anything.) The oddest thing happened just now, too - I pulled up the file in which I had the site bookmarked with some examples of their icons. It has "locked up" and I can't open or close it or anything on it, but nothing else on my computer is locked up. This has never happened before; if anything locks up, everything locks up. Guess I'll have to reboot to get rid of the file.
 
Upvote 0

Matrona

Lady Godiva Freedom Rider
Aug 17, 2003
11,696
203
USA
Visit site
✟28,168.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Whoa--that's very disturbing. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for them from now on. :o :sigh: :prayer:

What is your opinion on icons from Holy Transfiguration Monastery and Holy Nativity Convent in Brookline, MA? It disturbs me that they aren't canonical (and I know the story behind HOCNA's existence... ugh), but Nouna said it was okay to get icons from them. They are the only place I know of that has icons of my patron saint. (Other places, like skete.com, will write her icon on commission, but that's not an option for a college student for obvious reasons.) Also, the convent was willing to rush an icon print to me so that I could have one when I was baptized, which was really nice of them.
 
Upvote 0

OrthodoxTexan

Active Member
Dec 29, 2003
384
38
47
✟23,219.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
:eek:

My icon of my patron saint, Thomas, is from Monastery Icons. It says they are located in Borrego Springs CA on the sticker on the back. My girlfriend gave me the icon for my name day a few years ago. It was blessed by my priest and has sat in my prayer corner for almost 4 years now. On top of that, I live in Austin where the St. Hilarion "monastery" is.

OK, now I am confused. I can't destroy or throw away my icon, as it has been blessed, but now I am afraid that I will not be able to get the idea of its origin out of my mind when I venerate. I wish I would have never seen this post.
 
Upvote 0

MariaRegina

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2003
53,283
14,159
Visit site
✟115,460.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
OrthodoxTexan said:
:eek:

My icon of my patron saint, Thomas, is from Monastery Icons. It says they are located in Borrego Springs CA on the sticker on the back. My girlfriend gave me the icon for my name day a few years ago. It was blessed by my priest and has sat in my prayer corner for almost 4 years now. On top of that, I live in Austin where the St. Hilarion "monastery" is.

OK, now I am confused. I can't destroy or throw away my icon, as it has been blessed, but now I am afraid that I will not be able to get the idea of its origin out of my mind when I venerate. I wish I would have never seen this post.

I visited an Orthodox Church (won't mention which one) which had several Monastery Icons. If it is blessed by the priest, it is holy and should be treated with respect.
 
Upvote 0

Michael G

Abe Frohmann
Feb 22, 2004
33,441
11,984
51
Six-burgh, Pa
Visit site
✟103,091.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
OrthodoxTexan said:
:eek:

My icon of my patron saint, Thomas, is from Monastery Icons. It says they are located in Borrego Springs CA on the sticker on the back. My girlfriend gave me the icon for my name day a few years ago. It was blessed by my priest and has sat in my prayer corner for almost 4 years now. On top of that, I live in Austin where the St. Hilarion "monastery" is.

OK, now I am confused. I can't destroy or throw away my icon, as it has been blessed, but now I am afraid that I will not be able to get the idea of its origin out of my mind when I venerate. I wish I would have never seen this post.

I do not mean to cause anyone any controversy by posting this. If you already have an icon from them, which is blessed by a Priest, I would still venerate it and treat it as if it is holy. Icons are holy because of many reasons, one is the process of prayer which is undergone while painting the icon, the other is the commulative prayers which are prayed in front of the icon by Orthodox faithful. I just posted this to warn anyone from any further purchases of "Monastary Icons."

Matrona said:
Whoa--that's very disturbing. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for them from now on. :o :sigh: :prayer:

What is your opinion on icons from Holy Transfiguration Monastery and Holy Nativity Convent in Brookline, MA? It disturbs me that they aren't canonical (and I know the story behind HOCNA's existence... ugh), but Nouna said it was okay to get icons from them. They are the only place I know of that has icons of my patron saint. (Other places, like skete.com, will write her icon on commission, but that's not an option for a college student for obvious reasons.) Also, the convent was willing to rush an icon print to me so that I could have one when I was baptized, which was really nice of them.

Holy Transfiguration is not cannonical, but their icons are still accepted by the Orthodox Church. Monastary Icons are not accepted because the monks who paint and sell them are not Orthodox and probably not even Christian.

Michael
 
Upvote 0

Oblio

Creed or Chaos
Jun 24, 2003
22,324
865
65
Georgia - USA
Visit site
✟27,610.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Michael, could you put a line in your FAQ

'What about Monastery Icons ?'

With a quick synopsis and a link to this thread. I am thinking we might want to sticky your icon FAQ and that would partially make sure the topic was covered for newbies.
 
Upvote 0

Michael G

Abe Frohmann
Feb 22, 2004
33,441
11,984
51
Six-burgh, Pa
Visit site
✟103,091.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Oblio said:
Michael, could you put a line in your FAQ

'What about Monastery Icons ?'

With a quick synopsis and a link to this thread. I am thinking we might want to sticky your icon FAQ and that would partially make sure the topic was covered for newbies.

Actually that is a very good idea. I can put a paragraph in there about monastary icons with a link to the page cited and a link to the thread.
 
Upvote 0

Michael G

Abe Frohmann
Feb 22, 2004
33,441
11,984
51
Six-burgh, Pa
Visit site
✟103,091.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Jeff, read the following url. The men who makes these "icons" are not Orthodox, but rather some sort of Hindu sect which masks itself as Orthodox. They are blessed by them in their religion, which to me makes them spiritually dangerous. If the icon has been blessed by your priest, you are probably safe, especially if you have offered many pious prayers in front of it. At the same time, I would not give a penny of my money to them.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/monasteryicons.htm
 
Upvote 0
Jun 24, 2003
3,870
238
72
The Dalles, OR
✟5,260.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
What is an idol, nothing. I do not think dangerous is a good discription, I can see buying them as opposed to getting them from an Orthodox source does not make any sense as we need to support our monastics, but calling them spiritually dangerous is a bit much I would think. When an icon is blessed it is to serve its purpose which is to glorify Our Lord Jesus Christ, so I can not understand the danger of that.
Jeff the Finn
 
Upvote 0

Michael G

Abe Frohmann
Feb 22, 2004
33,441
11,984
51
Six-burgh, Pa
Visit site
✟103,091.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Doesn't the NT say not to eat meat sacrificed to false Gods?

Acts 21:25
[25] But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity."

1 Corinthians 8:1-10
[1] Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that "all of us possess knowledge." "Knowledge" puffs up, but love builds up.
[4] Hence, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that "an idol has no real existence," and that "there is no God but one."
[7] However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through being hitherto accustomed to idols, eat food as really offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.
[10] For if any one sees you, a man of knowledge, at table in an idol's temple, might he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols?

Rev 2:14
[14] But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice immorality.
 
Upvote 0

The Prokeimenon!

like unto bees about a honeycomb
Feb 3, 2004
2,044
225
47
some crummy town
✟25,826.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
[q]why they chose Nebraska is a mystery[/q]

Myself and many other Nebraskans ask ourselves this same thing daily :) (But seriously, Nebraska's a great place to live, primarily because it's not Iowa)

Do you know any more about their Nebraska connection? There is an "Orthodox" "church" and "monestary" and "seminary" in Seward, NE under the "Eparchy of Nebraska" the seems to be affiliated with "Christ Catholic Church International." There's a "Orthodox" "church" in Omaha under the Bishop of Vasilopolis (I think it's called) which evidently mean City of Queens, New York. Another one in Lincoln, and I can't figure out who they are affiliated with. So many (very spooky) false churches in such a small population! Are any (or all) of them related to this group?

Moses
 
Upvote 0