Modesty argument?

[TheDag]

Echoing the sentiment that some guys are going to lust no matter what she's wearing. There are some to whom woman dressed in full habit is actually more appealing than one in a bikini. Because the woman covered up for religious reasons is "forbidden," that type will only see her as a challenge and want to try to get her to change her mind.

A friend and I were discussing this one time. He had recently been to a muslim majority country and said that thefull body covering while supposing to be for modesty and avoid temptation actually had the opposite effect as it allowed his imagination to go to work and he could wonder what they were like under the clothes. So just another reason why it might be the case.

 

[TheDag]

I think, in American societies, far more men would google (gawk?) over a woman in a thong and string bikini top than a fully clothed beautiful one, but I do understand the point. If that's the case, then I think the OP would not want to have the vast majority of men gawking at his possible future bride because she dresses in a provocative way than say a very modest woman. And I'm guessing dealing with that one man in a million (or thousand, or whatever) that is lusting (or the issues described below) over his wife fully clothed, would be his preference as opposed to having to deal with many, many men whistling, gawking, taking pictures, hitting on, etc.

major issue is that you describe it as dressing provocatively. Thinking like that is a major part of the problem. You make assumptions.
People here have been arguing that it is wrong to dress like that because it causes men to lust. So the counter-point was made that men can lust due to other reasons. Which means no matter what is worn they could be tempting someone to sin and therefore it is impossible to dress in a manner that does not cause people to sin. It just shows the absurdity of that argument basically.
My wife was hit on a number of times. I can assure it had nothing to do with lack of clothing because she was fairly well covered up. Once she was given a phone number by another woman as she was looking at her and thinking a friend of ours would like her but I guess the person thought she was keen on her! She has been hit on while in work clothes, while in everyday clothes and winter clothes that includes a jumper that covers from neck down. So a guy might look at a woman in less clothes but does not determine if she is hit on or not. My wife and I used to walk down the street commenting to each other on the outfits people were wearing. Just something we did. We wearn't lusting by doing so.

 

[taxreliever]

major issue is that you describe it as dressing provocatively. Thinking like that is a major part of the problem. You make assumptions.
People here have been arguing that it is wrong to dress like that because it causes men to lust. So the counter-point was made that men can lust due to other reasons. Which means no matter what is worn they could be tempting someone to sin and therefore it is impossible to dress in a manner that does not cause people to sin. It just shows the absurdity of that argument basically.
My wife was hit on a number of times. I can assure it had nothing to do with lack of clothing because she was fairly well covered up. Once she was given a phone number by another woman as she was looking at her and thinking a friend of ours would like her but I guess the person thought she was keen on her! She has been hit on while in work clothes, while in everyday clothes and winter clothes that includes a jumper that covers from neck down. So a guy might look at a woman in less clothes but does not determine if she is hit on or not. My wife and I used to walk down the street commenting to each other on the outfits people were wearing. Just something we did. We wearn't lusting by doing so.

It's not absurd to think that your wife would have been hit on 25 more times that night had she been wearing a see through dress versus wearing what ever she was wearing, everyday clothes as you put it. I'm not being extreme here....there are some of those Hollywood gowns that hardly cover anything.

This is what I was trying to explain in my previous post......if the OP's GF wants to wear things that would cause more men to gawk then normal, he may want to think about whether he wants to continue with this relationship as opposed to trying to change her.

 

[homeofmew]

The entire idea of modesty only is a drama issue after the fall of man keep that in mind.
there is technically no "christian" way to dress. Take it from someone who wears pokemon shirts all the time.
But yeah if it bothers you not her there is a HUGE issue. I would never change the way I dress for a guy, ever.

 

[TheDag]

It's not absurd to think that your wife would have been hit on 25 more times that night had she been wearing a see through dress versus wearing what ever she was wearing, everyday clothes as you put it. I'm not being extreme here....there are some of those Hollywood gowns that hardly cover anything.

This is what I was trying to explain in my previous post......if the OP's GF wants to wear things that would cause more men to gawk then normal, he may want to think about whether he wants to continue with this relationship as opposed to trying to change her.

You are still relating being hit on being directly related to the clothes a person is wearing. That simply is not the case. I could be wrong but I doubt a college student is wearing same outfits as hollywood actors. Your comments still reflect a basic attitude issue which does not help.

 

[taxreliever]

You are still relating being hit on being directly related to the clothes a person is wearing. That simply is not the case. I could be wrong but I doubt a college student is wearing same outfits as hollywood actors. Your comments still reflect a basic attitude issue which does not help.

Ummmm....no....college students and high school students even are dressing worse than Hollywood actors.

But regardless, my point is the same.....if, by someone's standards, conservative or liberal, one dresses one way, and walks down a street, they get X amount of cat calls. The same exact person walks down that same street with less clothing and they get XX amount of cat calls.

That is my point......yes, we can't control the cat calls cause one can and will find attractiveness with anything regardless of modesty, but you can control the amount.

 

[taxreliever]

You are still relating being hit on being directly related to the clothes a person is wearing. That simply is not the case. I could be wrong but I doubt a college student is wearing same outfits as hollywood actors. Your comments still reflect a basic attitude issue which does not help.

Ummmm....no....college students and high school students even are dressing worse than Hollywood actors.

But regardless, my point is the same.....if, by someone's standards, conservative or liberal, one dresses one way, and walks down a street, they get X amount of cat calls. The same exact person walks down that same street with less clothing and they get XX amount of cat calls.

That is my point......yes, we can't control the cat calls cause one can and will find attractiveness with anything regardless of modesty, but you can control the amount.

As an understanding mate, I would chalk up the cat calls and be proud to be holding one that is attracting others (happens to my spouse now), but if I had the choice of hundreds of cat calls, slaps on the butt, endless hitting on, groping, stares, etc, etc, etc, because my mate wants to dress a little more revealing, I would want to consider whether I want to continue in that relationship if there wasn't a compromise in dress.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Keeping in mind this is a discussion, not a debate, I submit:

Is the girlfriend in question wearing sexy clothing deliberately to get attention from males? Or is she in a sleeveless top, shorts, and sandals because it's a hot day? Motivation makes a lot of difference. That said, even on a hot day, we can be mindful of the length of those shorts, or the skimpiness of the top. Shorts reaching halfway to the knee don't leave us any more uncomfortably hot than "Daisy Dukes" would, nor is there an appreciable difference in the temperature of a loose camisole versus a form-fitting tube top. Of course, there are those who would say that even the loose cami and walking-length shorts would be immodest, and that all clothing should extend at least to the elbow and to the knee. Me, I can't find that specification anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Inkachu]

Blind post:

She's your girlfriend, and unless you've got an engagement ring on her finger, you're not her "future husband". You need to accept her as she is, or find someone else. She's not your wife, and you have no say in how she dresses at this point.

That being said, I agree with your stance. I think many, many women today - especially the younger set - don't dress modestly, and despite their protestations and excuses, they know exactly what they're doing, and they want the attention their clothes will draw. HOWEVER, I would only say that you have grounds to speak up if she were your wife OR you were engaged and planning to get married. And even then, you'd be wading into sensitive territory that would need to be handled with care. But you've said that you've approached the topic with her already, and she's not open to changing. She's given you her decision.

So, you need to decide if you can come to terms with having a girlfriend who dresses sexy or not. If you can't get past it, and leave it alone, you need to move on and find someone more conservative.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Many have given good answers. I just wanted to ask if maybe your upset with her clothes not because you think they are immodest, but is it because maybe you are jealous that other guys may look at her? Shes still a gf so its up to her what to decide. Alot of women I see today wear far less then your gf does. There was a girl at a church we went to had came in with a very tiny tube top, short skirt and no underwear underneath. >.>

 

[WindHund]

My girlfriend and I have been having a bit of an argument lately. It all centers around modesty and what is appropriate to wear.

I am a little more conservative with regards to modesty, while she is a little more liberal. We are both in college and have been dating for a little over a year

When she wears things which I feel are immodest it upsets me and I tell her. I'm not trying to control her, just relate to her my feelings and views. We are not married so I have no right to tell her what to wear

By not showing too much you are respecting God and your future husband.

A little confusion, is she a girlfriend or fiance as in you have agreed to marry?

It appears you have a significant difference of opinion that you need to resolve. While you feel you have no right to control her, that often changes after a marriage.

Without in depth discussing this issue, I would suggest you two get some pre-marriage counseling before you do anything like get married. This problem will become much more serious after you are married.

This is true for any significant issues noted before marriage. The urges of the flesh or just not wanting to continue to be alone will not help when issues mushroom into much more serious differences of opinion. Again, do not consider marriage before resolving this issue!

 

[JCFantasy23]

It sounds to me to be the simple issue of you and your girlfriend just viewing modesty differently. Trust me, every relationship has the man and woman not agreeing on something. I don't see this as a big stumbling block in the relationship, though, more of a minor annoyance for you both. You will find those in all romantic relationships.

Put simply, neither of you are wrong, both of you are right. I think her viewpoints are fine, I think yours are fine. You're just not on the same page with them. Out of all my relationships, I think I've had at least one conversation with every boyfriend on at least one outfit and disagreement about it.

I'm not trying to shrug off the issue or saying you're making a mountain of a molehill - I'm trying to say instead of seeing this as a major problem in a relationship, instead try to see it as a chance to slowly come together through experimenting with compromise, understanding and being open-minded (for both of you.) It's an issue that will take time to adjust to.

 

[Goodbook]

There's a book called undateable and it's written by females and has pictures of men who no woman in their right mind would date because they have such awful taste in clothes.

Undateable: 311 Things Guys Do That Guarantee They Won't Be Dating or Having Sex: Ellen Rakieten, Anne Coyle: 9780345520678: Amazon.com: Books

Am not sure if the OP is serious or not. I mean..it just sounds like his gf is wearing sporty clothing because she likes sport, not that she wants men to lust after her. And how do you MAKE someone lust after you anyway? Isn't lust in the eye of the beholder? You think children get paedophiles to lust after them because they dress provocatively?

 

[Inkachu]

Some of these posts are interesting. I've never had "conversations" with any guy I was in a relationship with about my clothing. Maybe because I don't feel the need to have clothing suctioned onto my butt cheeks or have the world seeing my cleavage.

 

[taxreliever]

Some of these posts are interesting. I've never had "conversations" with any guy I was in a relationship with about my clothing.

Maybe because I don't feel the need to have clothing suctioned onto my butt cheeks or have the world seeing my cleavage.

That's exactly why.

 

[TheDag]

Some of these posts are interesting. I've never had "conversations" with any guy I was in a relationship with about my clothing.

That's exactly why.

Well lucky you two have never come across those who believe women should only wear dresses or skirts and have them lecture you.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Well lucky you two have never come across those who believe women should only wear dresses or skirts and have them lecture you.

Agreed.

Also, when I brought up my part on conversations, it was never about anything being too revealing - there were comments about them not liking what I was wearing for other reasons, not modesty. I was putting out there it's a common couple disagreement at times.

 

[Inkachu]

Well lucky you two have never come across those who believe women should only wear dresses or skirts and have them lecture you.

That never happened, but I did go to a private high school where the girls couldn't wear pants. I HATED that. I've encountered people who were dress/skirt only wearers, but it never turned into an actual confrontation about clothing. I figure, let them be whoever they need to be.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Well lucky you two have never come across those who believe women should only wear dresses or skirts and have them lecture you.

 

[Inkachu]

If someone tried to lecture me on my clothing, I don't think it would upset me. I guess it would depend on how they approached the subject. If someone just randomly pointed a finger and shouted "harlot! repent!" that would be a little annoying lol. But if someone just said something like "I believe women should only wear dresses or skirts" I'd simply say "I don't" and leave it at that.

What kinds of interactions have you guys had, that would upset you so much?