Moderate Lutheran Churches

[Zoness]

Hello all!

I haven't posted here extensively in awhile because I was kind of turned off by something in Lutheranism; the fact that churches are apparently extremely polarized conservative and liberal so I might as well ask are there any politically and theologically moderate churches in Lutheranism? I did some reading and I have heard that the Moravian church would fit that moderate description but they are not very widespread. Any ideas on other churches? Basically the LCMS is too conservative with me (mostly because of closed communion + extensive process requiring you to agree to a bunch of stuff) and the ELCA is too liberal for me (actually varies; female preachers don't bother me but sometimes the political climate does). Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks and God bless

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Hello all!

I haven't posted here extensively in awhile because I was kind of turned off by something in Lutheranism; the fact that churches are apparently extremely polarized conservative and liberal so I might as well ask are there any politically and theologically moderate churches in Lutheranism? I did some reading and I have heard that the Moravian church would fit that moderate description but they are not very widespread. Any ideas on other churches? Basically the LCMS is too conservative with me (mostly because of closed communion + extensive process requiring you to agree to a bunch of stuff) and the ELCA is too liberal for me (actually varies; female preachers don't bother me but sometimes the political climate does). Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks and God bless

This is just my opinion, and I don't want to burst your bubble, but my experience has been that the Moravians tend to be a bit further on the Liberal side than even the ELCA.

While in fellowship with LCMS, LCC (particularly the East District) make about 1/3 of the LCMS congregations seem quite moderate, and LCMS and LCC are too moderate for WELS.

Possibly Lutheran Brethren might be what you are looking for? I've never been to one, but I know there are a handful in Western Canada, and a number of Congregations in the US. http://www.clba.org/

This is for info only, for me, in the light of Scripture LCC or orthodox LCMS are the best fit with the Bible.

Peace to you,

Mark

 

[DaRev]

This is for info only, for me, in the light of Scripture LCC or orthodox LCMS are the best fit with the Bible.

You only say that 'cause it's true.

 

[Zoness]

This is just my opinion, and I don't want to burst your bubble, but my experience has been that the Moravians tend to be a bit further on the Liberal side than even the ELCA.

While in fellowship with LCMS, LCC (particularly the East District) make about 1/3 of the LCMS congregations seem quite moderate, and LCMS and LCC are too moderate for WELS.

Possibly Lutheran Brethren might be what you are looking for? I've never been to one, but I know there are a handful in Western Canada, and a number of Congregations in the US. http://www.clba.org/

This is for info only, for me, in the light of Scripture LCC or orthodox LCMS are the best fit with the Bible.

Peace to you,

Mark

I browsed their in-depth statement of faith (all almost 400 pages of it...) and they seem just about as conservative as the LCMS. It is not that I have a problem with theological conservatism but usually theological conservatism is directly proportional to political conservatism. Plus the closest church is Ottawa, IL which is pretty far for a teenager. The church also seems to be very small and probably more subject to closed-culture. I shouldn't be so quick to judge because it has happened to me in ELCA congregations too but that closed-culture thing defeats the point of church seeking and I have had a terrible time with that.

 

[DaRev]

I browsed their in-depth statement of faith (all almost 400 pages of it...) and they seem just about as conservative as the LCMS. It is not that I have a problem with theological conservatism but usually theological conservatism is directly proportional to political conservatism. Plus the closest church is Ottawa, IL which is pretty far for a teenager. The church also seems to be very small and probably more subject to closed-culture. I shouldn't be so quick to judge because it has happened to me in ELCA congregations too but that closed-culture thing defeats the point of church seeking and I have had a terrible time with that.

If I may be so bold...

What is the political problem you see with the LCMS?

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

I browsed their in-depth statement of faith (all almost 400 pages of it...) and they seem just about as conservative as the LCMS. It is not that I have a problem with theological conservatism but usually theological conservatism is directly proportional to political conservatism. Plus the closest church is Ottawa, IL which is pretty far for a teenager. The church also seems to be very small and probably more subject to closed-culture. I shouldn't be so quick to judge because it has happened to me in ELCA congregations too but that closed-culture thing defeats the point of church seeking and I have had a terrible time with that.

You can be very liberal and be a Missouri Synod Lutheran, in fact my whole family is super liberal, I am moderate, and a lot of Missouri Synod Lutherans I know are pretty liberal. Don't think just because a denomination is confessional that it means you have to be conservative to be apart of it...because that is definitely not the case.

 

[RedneckLutheran]

You can be very liberal and be a Missouri Synod Lutheran, in fact my whole family is super liberal, I am moderate, and a lot of Missouri Synod Lutherans I know are pretty liberal. Don't think just because a denomination is confessional that it means you have to be conservative to be apart of it...because that is definitely not the case.

just as you can be a conservative Lutheran and be ELCA...there are good and bad in all...there are liberal and conservative in all...you can't lump all your eggs in one basket...

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

My Congregation and Pastor are very Confessional and conservative in doctrine and practice, but a fair estimate would be that only about 25% of us are politically conservative. It makes for some very interesting and heated discussions. That being said, when it comes to the Church we have been able to set aside political differences, as it should be.

Really, IMHO, LCMS/LCC is the best fit if one is a Christian

 

[Tofferer]

Really, IMHO, LCMS/LCC is the best fit if one is a Christian

I can most assuredly agree with that.

 

[synger]

THere's a real difference between being religiously conservative and being politically conservative. While some issues of ethics and morality tend to overlap, one of the things that does not is economics.

I am a Democrat primarily because I believe our government should be helping the poor and needy. My husband is a Republican primarily because he believes our government should encourage but not take the place of private charities, who can do the job more efficiently and cost-effectively (in his opinion).

So while I'm fairly liberal politically, I'm very conservative religiously. LCMS works very well for us in this way, because there's a mix of political viewpoints in the church.

But the sticking point for us for choosing a church was and is how true they are to teaching and preaching Scripture. Politics is secondary. We looked all around, and didn't find anything as solid in doctrine, practice, and teaching, as LCMS.

 

[RadMan]

THere's a real difference between being religiously conservative and being politically conservative. While some issues of ethics and morality tend to overlap, one of the things that does not is economics.

I am a Democrat primarily because I believe our government should be helping the poor and needy. My husband is a Republican primarily because he believes our government should encourage but not take the place of private charities, who can do the job more efficiently and cost-effectively (in his opinion).

So while I'm fairly liberal politically, I'm very conservative religiously. LCMS works very well for us in this way, because there's a mix of political viewpoints in the church.

But the sticking point for us for choosing a church was and is how true they are to teaching and preaching Scripture. Politics is secondary. We looked all around, and didn't find anything as solid in doctrine, practice, and teaching, as LCMS.

That's an interesting statement about being a Democrat since the Bible advocates the "communal" style within their own ranks. Where the difference comes in is where Democrats think the government should shoulder the responsibility and conversly, like your husband says, the church should shoulder it. From what I've seen it comes from the church solely. Excerpts from the first century churh records mention that the church was incorporating the mission statement of taking care of the widows, orphans, sick needy etc. Traditionally since then the church has shoulder most of the responsibility up untill the last 30 years. Giving government the responsibility only allows them to have control on how it is dispersed and puts too many limits on it. Enabling people seems to be their aim by just putting them on the "dole".

Many Christian programs goes a step forward and gives them the opportunity to look for work or go to school. In other words, be self suffecient which doesn't seem to be the govs aim.

 

[DaRev]

That's an interesting statement about being a Democrat since the Bible advocates the "communal" style within their own ranks. Where the difference comes in is where Democrats think the government should shoulder the responsibility and conversly, like your husband says, the church should shoulder it. From what I've seen it comes from the church solely. Excerpts from the first century churh records mention that the church was incorporating the mission statement of taking care of the widows, orphans, sick needy etc. Traditionally since then the church has shoulder most of the responsibility up untill the last 30 years. Giving government the responsibility only allows them to have control on how it is dispersed and puts too many limits on it. Enabling people seems to be their aim by just putting them on the "dole".

Many Christian programs goes a step forward and gives them the opportunity to look for work or go to school. In other words, be self suffecient which doesn't seem to be the govs aim.

Great post!!

 

[Zoness]

If I may be so bold...

What is the political problem you see with the LCMS?

It is more congregational and we only have one LCMS congregation. But politics is all I ever heard from people there but maybe it was because I was an outsider it was one of those situations where you felt extremely out of place. Besides it is very confessional so there absolutely cannot be any dissent if you want to join and I am unsure about some of Luther's works, I think I am a little to inclusive to be LCMS.

 

[filosofer]

It is more congregational and we only have one LCMS congregation. But politics is all I ever heard from people there but maybe it was because I was an outsider it was one of those situations where you felt extremely out of place. Besides it is very confessional so there absolutely cannot be any dissent if you want to join and I am unsure about some of Luther's works, I think I am a little to inclusive to be LCMS.

Luther's works/writings do not determine whether you are Lutheran in the Christian confession of the faith.

The Book of Concord is the Confessions of the Evangelical Lutheran Church.

 

[QuiltAngel]

If you are talking politics as in city, state, national, world politics, the LCMS strives to be apolitical. There are several issues that they do speak out on such as abortion and homosexuality. Other than that, we let our members decide where they are as for as politics. Does that mean that there are some churches and pastors who are more vocal than others? I am sure there are. I tend to think that what you hear from people discussing politics are their personal opinions. This last year has been a very devisive (sp?) year as far as politics go and people have had some very strong opinions in that area.

If you are talking church politics, that varies too from congregation to congregation.

If you are looking for a church that is very welcoming of people new to the church, that also varies quite a bit. I have been in congregations that are very closed off and in others that are very welcoming.

I guess that what I am saying is that you can not really judge a whole denomination based one one or two congregations.

You did state in your OP that you can not go along with the LCMS view on communion so I don't know why you have been looking at an LCMS church. To answer your question if there is a synod that is more moderate, I really can't answer that as I don't know too much about many of the smaller, newer synods.

I just wanted to pop in here and say that you can not project the political views of members of the church onto the whole Synod.

 

[Tofferer]

I know that Prince of Peace Lutheran was very welcoming to us when we first started attending there. True, one congregation should not be the de facto standard whereby to judge the whole of the LCMS, and yet I would hope that most churches in the LCMS will be quite similar to what we've experienced here. Only time will tell. Notwithstanding, it would seem to me that the LCMS is possibly the best of the Lutheran churches that I have had an experience with.

 

[Zoness]

Well the only reason that I project my experiences onto the whole synod is that I don't have anything else to go by. This is the only LCMS church in the area and there are only two ELCA churches so the actual number of Lutheran churches is quite small. The reason I don't agree with communion is that it means that everyone will be accepting the exact same system and I just don't think that every little part of the doctrine I would agree to, it might be a minor reason not to try going to an LCMS church but that is the same reasoning I tried to use when I remained Roman Catholic. Thanks for the input so far.

 

[DD2008]

Well the only reason that I project my experiences onto the whole synod is that I don't have anything else to go by. This is the only LCMS church in the area and there are only two ELCA churches so the actual number of Lutheran churches is quite small. The reason I don't agree with communion is that it means that everyone will be accepting the exact same system and I just don't think that every little part of the doctrine I would agree to, it might be a minor reason not to try going to an LCMS church but that is the same reasoning I tried to use when I remained Roman Catholic. Thanks for the input so far.

I can't agree with the closed communion either. I'm pretty sure I'll be going to a Presbyterian Church most Sundays maybe even joining. But when I do attend the Lutheran Church it will be ELCA. The PCUSA and the ELCA are in full alter and pulpit fellowship. There is an ELCA and a PCUSA on the same block in my town that cooperate with one another quite a lot. I really like their ecumenical model.

Check out the link. These five Churches are in full communion so if you join one you can commune in them all: http://www.elca.org/Who-We-Are/Our-...Inter-Religious-Relations/Full-Communion.aspx

 

[Tofferer]

Presbyterian? So you are saying that you can look honestly at your Bible and agree with all five points of Calvinism? If the ELCA is in fellowship with the Presbyterian church, then does that mean that the ELCA is agreement with the five points of Calvinism? Or is it something even worse?

 

[DD2008]

Presbyterian? So you are saying that you can look honestly at your Bible and agree with all five points of Calvinism? If the ELCA is in fellowship with the Presbyterian church, then does that mean that the ELCA is agreement with the five points of Calvinism? Or is it something even worse?

I am discovering that i do agree with Tulip based on scripture.

But, that doesn't really matter becasue in the end we all can agree that if we have faith in Christ we will be saved so it doesn't mater if you know TULIP or not it's knowing Christ that matters.

Here is a link to the text of their agreement: http://www.elca.org/Who-We-Are/Our-...USA/A-Formula-of-Agreement/Official-Text.aspx