Michael stands up - Daniel 12:1, Revelation 12:7-9

[Douggg]

In Daniel 12;1, Michael the angel will stand up, and what ensues is the worst time in Israel's history. And in Daniel12:7, it says that time will last a time/times/half time.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So, the prime points are...

1. that Michael will stand up
2. the worst time of trouble in history will then take place
3, it will last a time/times/half time

Next, let;s look at Revelation 12
1. Revelation 12:7-9, Michael (will stand up) and together with his angels will cast Satan and his angels down to earth
2. Revelation 12:12 Satan has great wrath, knowing his time is short
3. Revelation 12:14 a time/times/half time

We can conclude then the worst time of trouble in history, will take place in the second half of the 7 years, in the great tribulation - that will start slightly before then when the abomination statue image will be made and set-up on the temple mount, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

When Satan gets cast down to earth, he will incarnate the statue image, making it appear to come alive and speak. And the false prophet will require that everyone worship the statue image. And anyone refusing to worship the image will be killed.

 

[eleos1954]

In Daniel 12;1, Michael the angel will stand up, and what ensues is the worst time in Israel's history. And in Daniel12:7, it says that time will last a time/times/half time.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So, the prime points are...

1. that Michael will stand up
2. the worst time of trouble in history will then take place
3, it will last a time/times/half time

Next, let;s look at Revelation 12
1. Revelation 12:7-9, Michael (will stand up) and together with his angels will cast Satan and his angels down to earth
2. Revelation 12:12 Satan has great wrath, knowing his time is short
3. Revelation 12:14 a time/times/half time

We can conclude then the worst time of trouble in history, will take place in the second half of the 7 years, in the great tribulation - that will start slightly before then when the abomination statue image will be made and set-up on the temple mount, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

When Satan gets cast down to earth, he will incarnate the statue image, making it appear to come alive and speak. And the false prophet will required that everyone worship the statue image. And anyone refusing to worship the image will be killed.

Everything satan does is mimicking (yet twisting) the word of God. It says nothing about a "statue image" appearing to come to life.

 

[Berean Tim]

In Daniel 12;1, Michael the angel will stand up, and what ensues is the worst time in Israel's history. And in Daniel12:7, it says that time will last a time/times/half time.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So, the prime points are...

1. that Michael will stand up
2. the worst time of trouble in history will then take place
3, it will last a time/times/half time

Next, let;s look at Revelation 12
1. Revelation 12:7-9, Michael (will stand up) and together with his angels will cast Satan and his angels down to earth
2. Revelation 12:12 Satan has great wrath, knowing his time is short
3. Revelation 12:14 a time/times/half time

We can conclude then the worst time of trouble in history, will take place in the second half of the 7 years, in the great tribulation - that will start slightly before then when the abomination statue image will be made and set-up on the temple mount, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

When Satan gets cast down to earth, he will incarnate the statue image, making it appear to come alive and speak. And the false prophet will required that everyone worship the statue image. And anyone refusing to worship the image will be killed.

Michael is the Restrainer

 

[grafted branch]

In Daniel 12;1, Michael the angel will stand up, and what ensues is the worst time in Israel's history. And in Daniel12:7, it says that time will last a time/times/half time.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So, the prime points are...

1. that Michael will stand up
2. the worst time of trouble in history will then take place
3, it will last a time/times/half time

Next, let;s look at Revelation 12
1. Revelation 12:7-9, Michael (will stand up) and together with his angels will cast Satan and his angels down to earth
2. Revelation 12:12 Satan has great wrath, knowing his time is short
3. Revelation 12:14 a time/times/half time

We can conclude then the worst time of trouble in history, will take place in the second half of the 7 years, in the great tribulation - that will start slightly before then when the abomination statue image will be made and set-up on the temple mount, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

When Satan gets cast down to earth, he will incarnate the statue image, making it appear to come alive and speak. And the false prophet will required that everyone worship the statue image. And anyone refusing to worship the image will be killed.

I gave you a thumbs up because we rarely agree on things and while I don’t agree on your timing I do agree that Daniel 12:1 and Revelation 12:7-9 are both referring to the same event.

I’m not trying to debate you, just looking for your opinion.

When Satan is cast out of heaven does this create the New Heaven? Meaning once someone dies after Satan is cast out they are in the New Heaven. This would of course also mean that New Heaven and Old Earth have a time period where they overlap.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Douggg]

Everything satan does is mimicking (yet twisting) the word of God. It says nothing about a "statue image" appearing to come to life.

It's in Revelation 13:15.

In Revelation 13:14, the false prophet has the people of the world make an image of the beast-king. And also that the false prophet did miracles when the beast-king was their at his side.

So it will appear to the onlooking world like the false prophet did a miracle to make the image come to life and speak -

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

So what will appear to be a mriacle, will actaully be a lying wonder of Satan incarnating the statue image. In order to be worship, which it says the dragon will be worshiped at that time of the beast-king in Revelation 13:4.

________________________________________________________________________________________

In Ezekiel 28:16-19, about the downfall of Satan, it says that when he gets casts down to earth (verse 17), God causes a fire to come up in his midst and turns him to ashes (verse 18).

What that is referring to is that Satan gets cast down to earth in Revelation 12, in the middle of the 7 years. He then incarnates the statue image in order to be worshiped (unknowingly by the people of the world that by worshiping the statue image, they are actually will be worshiping Satan)_.

Then at Jesus's return, Jesus causes the statue image to go up in flames and turned to ash (verse 18). Which will expose Satan there on the temple mount for everyone to see. And them who will have been worshiping the statue image for all that time will be aghast (verse 19).

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

 

[Douggg]

I gave you a thumbs up because we rarely agree on things and while I don’t agree on your timing I do agree that Daniel 12:1 and Revelation 12:7-9 are both referring to the same event.

I’m not trying to debate you, just looking for your opinion.

When Satan is cast out of heaven does this create the New Heaven? Meaning once someone dies after Satan is cast out they are in the New Heaven. This would of course also mean that New Heaven and Old Earth have a time period where they overlap.

What are your thoughts on this?

No, I don't think as so, as far as creating a New Heaven. When saved persons die, their souls go to the present third heaven.

my opinion is that Satan was cast out of the third heaven - the highest heaven where God's throne is and all the heavenly inhabitants - long, long ago when Satan first sinned.

Satan can, since then, enter the third heaven in a limited sense, but only if summoned to appear before the throne by God. He is not allowed to roam around freely up there causing trouble in the third heaven any more.

Every since being kicked out of the third heaven, Satan and his angels occupy the second heaven of the cosmos and the first heaven of earth.

So, when in Revelation 12:8-9, Satan gets cast down to earth out of heaven - it is referring to the second heaven, i.e. that of the cosmos.

In Revelation 12:8, it says that his home will be found no more in that heaven. Which, in Revelation 6:13-14, we read about the cosmos, the stars of the universe, being rolled back like a scroll - which I envision like the curtains on a stage, parting. And the world will see Jesus, sword in hand, in the third heaven before the Throne of God.

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

[tranquil]

In Daniel 12;1, Michael the angel will stand up, and what ensues is the worst time in Israel's history. And in Daniel12:7, it says that time will last a time/times/half time.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So, the prime points are...

1. that Michael will stand up
2. the worst time of trouble in history will then take place
3, it will last a time/times/half time

Next, let;s look at Revelation 12
1. Revelation 12:7-9, Michael (will stand up) and together with his angels will cast Satan and his angels down to earth
2. Revelation 12:12 Satan has great wrath, knowing his time is short
3. Revelation 12:14 a time/times/half time

We can conclude then the worst time of trouble in history, will take place in the second half of the 7 years, in the great tribulation - that will start slightly before then when the abomination statue image will be made and set-up on the temple mount, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

When Satan gets cast down to earth, he will incarnate the statue image, making it appear to come alive and speak. And the false prophet will required that everyone worship the statue image. And anyone refusing to worship the image will be killed.

Where is Dan 12:1 in Revelation?

“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

'Sons of your people' = 144,000 of Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Everyone in the 'Book of life' is saved

Revelation 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

Revelation 7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

The 'time of distress such has never occurred' is the start of the 'great tribulation'

Revelation 7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The Trumpets begin the 'great tribulation'.

 

[Timtofly]

In Daniel 12;1, Michael the angel will stand up, and what ensues is the worst time in Israel's history. And in Daniel12:7, it says that time will last a time/times/half time.

You are missing the point of the question. How long will it be from Daniel until these wonders. You change the question to how long will this time of trouble last. The time between Daniel and the end is 3500 years. This is time, a thousand years. Two times, two thousand years. Half a time is 500 years.

When Michael cast out Satan that is after Jacob's trouble. Jacob's trouble are the first 6 Trumpets. Satan is allowed to release his angels at the 5th Trumpet. For 5 months they torment mankind. Then by the end of the 7 Thunders, Satan and his angels are attacking heaven itself. So the 5 months is ongoing through the 7 Thunders, which John was not allowed to write about. But these Thunders still happen between the 6th Trumpet and the 7th Trumpet. It is during the days of the 7th Trumpet that Michael defeats Satan and his angels, and they are no longer found.

"And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Now we can assume the angels cast out come to earth, or cast into the LOF. They are not mentioned again. Satan uses 10 kings on the earth, who have a following, but no kingdom or nation, to set up Babylon on earth. Nothing is mentioned about those angels after that point. At the 7th Trumpet, there are not even that many humans left on earth, compared to the 8 billion people today. The majority of humanity has either been placed in the LOF or redeemed and on the sea of glass. Revelation 15:2-3

"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints."

These are the final harvest who do not have to go through the 42 months of AoD. They have the victory over Satan and his empire. Yet they lived through the Trumpets and Thunders. It is the time of the Trumpets and Thunders that is shortened. Satan will still get 42 months, or no time at all. It all depends on who is still alive on earth at the 7th Trumpet.

So what Daniel sees is Michael standing up. Daniel sees a resurrection and a judgment. However there is still a thousand years between Revelation 12 and the final end that Daniel is told will happen in 3500 years. Some will even claim that Satan and those angels were cast out 500 years after Daniel, in the first century, at the time of first coming of Messiah. Especially since Revelation 12 frames some chronology with the birth of Jesus. But the opening of the pit at the 5th Trumpet goes hand in hand with Satan and his angels cast out of heaven soon after they are loosed from the pit in the 5th Trumpet.

 

[tranquil]

In Daniel 12;1, Michael the angel will stand up, and what ensues is the worst time in Israel's history. And in Daniel12:7, it says that time will last a time/times/half time.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So, the prime points are...

1. that Michael will stand up
2. the worst time of trouble in history will then take place
3, it will last a time/times/half time

Next, let;s look at Revelation 12
1. Revelation 12:7-9, Michael (will stand up) and together with his angels will cast Satan and his angels down to earth
2. Revelation 12:12 Satan has great wrath, knowing his time is short
3. Revelation 12:14 a time/times/half time

We can conclude then the worst time of trouble in history, will take place in the second half of the 7 years, in the great tribulation - that will start slightly before then when the abomination statue image will be made and set-up on the temple mount, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

When Satan gets cast down to earth, he will incarnate the statue image, making it appear to come alive and speak. And the false prophet will required that everyone worship the statue image. And anyone refusing to worship the image will be killed.

It is pointless to even bring this up with you, but for others:

The 'abomination of desolation' that everyone points to in Dan 9:27 is not correct. Revelation is Dan 9:26 + 9:27. 9:27's abomination of desolation is simply not there: the translation is 'on wing of abominations (PLURAL!) desolation'.

It is singular in Dan 12:11 - 'the abomination of desolation is set up' - that is singular. That is the start of the 'great tribulation'.

In Dan 9:27, it is plural, abominations.

26 [...]

And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

[This is the start of the Trumpets/ great tribulation.]​

Its end shall come with a flood,

[The five months of the 5th Trumpet = Gen 7:24 flood. The 'locusts' are the 'people of the prince to come.]​

​

and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.

[This is the start of the 6th Trumpet, Revelation 9:13-21]​

27And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”


Depending on what is meant, the covenant occurs after the 'flood' (mentioned in Rev 12:15 or after the war is over.) The 'mighty angel' of Rev 10 with a rainbow on his head symbolizes the end of this flood and 'swears an oath' to heaven, earth, and the sea' (swearing an oath is same as making a covenant -



Genesis 26:28

“We can plainly see that the LORD has been with you,” they replied. “We recommend that there should now be an oath between us and you. Let us make a covenant with you.

2 Kings 11:4

But in the seventh year Jehoiada sent and brought the captains of the Carites and of the guards, and had them come to him in the house of the LORD. And he made a covenant with them and put them under oath in the house of the LORD, and he showed them the king’s son.

Psalm 105:8

He remembers His covenant forever, the word He ordained for a thousand generations— 9 the covenant He made with Abraham, and the oath He swore to Isaac. 10 He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree, to Israel as an everlasting covenant: 11 “I will give you the land of Canaan as the portion of your inheritance.”

Psalm 132:11

The LORD swore an oath to David, a promise He will not revoke: “One of your descendants I will place on your throne. 12 If your sons keep My covenant and the testimony I will teach them, then their sons will also sit on your throne forever and ever.”

Hosea 10:4 They speak mere words; with false oaths they make covenants. So judgment springs up like poisonous weeds in the furrows of a field.


The mighty angel is

5And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven 6and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay, 7but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.​

​

The reason the 7th Trumpet is mentioned here is because that is where he breaks the covenant!

 

[Timtofly]

The reason the 7th Trumpet is mentioned here is because that is where he breaks the covenant!

No covenant is broken in any of those verses.

Your faulty translation assumes a covenant is created to be broken.

Confirm does not mean established. This Covenant was created on the Cross as the NT. That was not at the start of the 70th week. That was the middle of the 70th week when Messiah was cut off, but not for Himself.

Daniel 9:26 was the first century.

Daniel 9:27 is the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. It is a week long celebration. This is a set of 7 days, not 7 years. The NT Atonement Covenant is not created at the 7th Trumpet. It is confirmed with the many. Those still alive after the final harvest of the first 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders.

If the week of the 7th Trumpet is split in half, it is because Satan is given 42 months. The last 3.5 days is after the 42 months when the 2 witness lay dead in Jerusalem. Those 42 months are the 3rd woe. The 7th Trumpet is a week long celebration. The third woe is the 42 months that extend the days of the 7th Trumpet.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

In Daniel 12;1, Michael the angel will stand up, and what ensues is the worst time in Israel's history. And in Daniel12:7, it says that time will last a time/times/half time.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So, the prime points are...

1. that Michael will stand up
2. the worst time of trouble in history will then take place
3, it will last a time/times/half time

Next, let;s look at Revelation 12
1. Revelation 12:7-9, Michael (will stand up) and together with his angels will cast Satan and his angels down to earth
2. Revelation 12:12 Satan has great wrath, knowing his time is short
3. Revelation 12:14 a time/times/half time

We can conclude then the worst time of trouble in history, will take place in the second half of the 7 years, in the great tribulation - that will start slightly before then when the abomination statue image will be made and set-up on the temple mount, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

When Satan gets cast down to earth, he will incarnate the statue image, making it appear to come alive and speak. And the false prophet will required that everyone worship the statue image. And anyone refusing to worship the image will be killed.

There's one major problem with what you're saying here. Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven long ago, so that is not a future event as you're trying to claim (Note: I'm not saying Daniel 12:1-2 is not a future event - the resurrection of the dead will occur in the future when Christ returns).

The text indicates that Satan the accuser of the brethren was cast out, which implies that he cannot accuse anyone before God in heaven after being cast out. Guess what? That was already the case long ago already.

Using scripture to interpret scripture, we can see that NO ONE, including Satan, can accuse us anymore which has been the case for a long time already.

Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

Based on past discussions with you about this, you will respond by saying Revelation 12 is not talking about Satan being cast out of the third heaven, but everyone here except you knows that is not true. It's clearly referring to Satan and his angels being kicked out of the third heaven because it refers to Satan the accuser being cast down. Where did he accuse the brethren before God? In the third heaven. So, you have no argument for saying that Revelation 12 is talking about Satan being cast out of the first or second heaven.

 

[friend of]

In Daniel 12;1, Michael the angel will stand up, and what ensues is the worst time in Israel's history. And in Daniel12:7, it says that time will last a time/times/half time

Wouldn't the holocaust be the worst time in Israel's history? Asking for a friend

 

[friend of]

Michael is the Restrainer

The Holy Spirit is the Restrainer

 

[Spiritual Jew]

No, I don't think as so, as far as creating a New Heaven. When saved persons die, their souls go to the present third heaven.

my opinion is that Satan was cast out of the third heaven - the highest heaven where God's throne is and all the heavenly inhabitants - long, long ago when Satan first sinned.

That's not true. In the book of Job he is described as still being able to come before God in the third heaven. He and his angels were kicked out of the third heaven after Jesus's resurrection. He could no longer accuse the brethren before God in the third heaven because their sins were forgiven. He can't accuse people of sins that have been forgiven by the blood of Christ. But, he was in the third heaven accusing the brethren up until that point.

 

[friend of]

Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven long ago, so that is not a future event as you're trying to claim (Note: I'm not saying Daniel 12:1-2 is not a future event - the resurrection of the dead will occur in the future when Christ returns).

They have not been cast down from the second heaven (cosmos) yet. Satan still accuses the saints and unbelievers alike and is still summoned by God even now.

 

[Douggg]

There's one major problem with what you're saying here. Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven long ago, so that is not a future event as you're trying to claim (Note: I'm not saying Daniel 12:1-2 is not a future event - the resurrection of the dead will occur in the future when Christ returns).

I agree that Satan and his angels were cast out of (the third) heaven a long, long time ago - when Satan first sinned.

Satan's realm after that has been the second heaven, i.e. the cosmos, and the first heaven, i.e. the atmosphere above the earth, and the earth.

Using scripture to interpret scripture, we can see that NO ONE, including Satan, can accuse us anymore which has been the case for a long time already.

Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

Satan cannot accuse Christians of sins - because we are covered by the blood of Christ. Satan can and does accuse the unsaved of their sins. Such as unsaved Jews.

Based on past discussions with you about this, you will respond by saying Revelation 12 is not talking about Satan being cast out of the third heaven, but everyone here except you knows that is not true. It's clearly referring to Satan and his angels being kicked out of the third heaven because it refers to Satan the accuser being cast down.

Satan does not have to be in heaven for God to hear what he says. God hears every word said and knows the intent of the heart.

Satan and his angels being cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9, is part of God's plan to take the nations of this world out from under Satan's control. It is the beginning of the fall of Babylon the great, the spiritual kingdom of Satan and his angels.

 

[Douggg]

Wouldn't the holocaust be the worst time in Israel's history? Asking for a friend

As horrible as it was, there were survivors. The great tribulation, if not limited in duration, no flesh on earth will survive.

The Jews have a saying regarding the holocaust - "never again".

The Jews (Judaism) have a different take on the negative prophecies in the bible, like in Daniel 12. Their position is that negative prophecies can be avoided through repentance and turning to God. Their rationale, in part, is how Nineveh repented when Jonah delivered to them their coming destruction for their evil ways. And through repentance and change in ways, were spared from destruction.

 

[David Kent]

In Daniel 12;1, Michael the angel will stand up, and what ensues is the worst time in Israel's history. And in Daniel12:7, it says that time will last a time/times/half time.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So, the prime points are...

1. that Michael will stand up
2. the worst time of trouble in history will then take place
3, it will last a time/times/half time

Next, let;s look at Revelation 12
1. Revelation 12:7-9, Michael (will stand up) and together with his angels will cast Satan and his angels down to earth
2. Revelation 12:12 Satan has great wrath, knowing his time is short
3. Revelation 12:14 a time/times/half time

We can conclude then the worst time of trouble in history, will take place in the second half of the 7 years, in the great tribulation - that will start slightly before then when the abomination statue image will be made and set-up on the temple mount, 1335 days before Jesus returns.

When Satan gets cast down to earth, he will incarnate the statue image, making it appear to come alive and speak. And the false prophet will require that everyone worship the statue image. And anyone refusing to worship the image will be killed.

Where does it say
2. the worst time of trouble in history will then take place?

 

[friend of]

@Douggg I got another question.

You say that Satan is going to incarnated into a statue and this is supported by Ezekiel somewhere. You say this will put him at the center of worship. But if this is so, then that would mean he is being worshipped as something else other than who he is, Satan. Doesn't Satan want to be worshipped as Satan? If he is worshipped as some kind of life-like statue, then he isn't really being worshipped for being the arch nemesis of God. Do you get where I'm going with this?

I look forward to your reply and God bless

 

[Douggg]

@Douggg I got another question.

You say that Satan is going to incarnated into a statue and this is supported by Ezekiel somewhere. You say this will put him at the center of worship. But if this is so, then that would mean he is being worshipped as something else other than who he is, Satan. Doesn't Satan want to be worshipped as Satan? If he is worshipped as some kind of life-like statue, then he isn't really being worshipped for being the arch nemesis of God. Do you get where I'm going with this?

I look forward to your reply and God bless

In 2 Corinthians 11:14, it says Satan disguises himself as angel of light.

So Satan is not forthcoming in revealing his true self, when he incarnates the statue image.

When Jesus returns, in Ezekiel 28:16-19, it give a synopsis of Satan's demise. When he is exposed for the world to behold him, them who know him, i.e. as the life force in the statue image, will be astonished to find out who they will have been worshiping over those 3 years (roughly) was really Satan. In verse 19 below.


17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. [cast down to the ground in Revelation 7-9]

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee [the statue image will go up in flames], it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. [the statue image turned to ashes, as everyone watches - and Satan is exposed]

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.