Matthew 7:21-23 does not say that you can lose your salvation.

[ozso]

Some will even insist we must doubt our salvation or we're not saved

Whereas others insist that if we doubt our salvation we're not saved.

 

[Diamond72]

He didn't have anything against good works that a Christian performs and stated "by their fruits you will know them".

It all has to do with who walks in the flesh and who walks in the spirit. It is clear who is walking in the flesh. For example In 1 Corinthians 5:1, "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father's wife."

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" Those who will be condemned on Judgement day are those that are boasting in their works, not faith alone believers in Lord Jesus Christ. Works salvationists love to throw parts of Matthew 7:21-23 at you to say you need to do works to be saved, but actually Matthew 7:22 is talking about works salvationists as you see they are boasting in their works before God which is not salvation.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

See, Jesus will tell the works salvation boaster I never knew you, not used to know you but you lost it. yet many people who teach that you can lose your salvation will use Matthew 7:21-23 when actually it says I never knew you. this proves eternal security because once Jesus knows you, you're saved. but these are people that he never knew.

Also the Matthew 7:21 "will of the father" people use this to say ah ha! there you go, you have to do works to be saved, but actually the will of the Father is to believe on the Son. John 6:39-40

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Also notice it says "Many will say to me in that day" Jesus said broad is the way to destruction, Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
there

There are many people who say Lord Lord and talk about their works. All false religions are works based, and a lot of them claim the name of Jesus. Islam claims Jesus of course its a false Jesus, another Jesus. Roman Catholics claim Jesus but its a false Jesus, a Jesus who is a co redeemer, co mediator with Mary. and in some cases Mary is higher as you see with the statues and paintings of a Giant Mary holding a little tiny helpless baby Jesus. and they have a little shrine in the yard to Mary, looks just like the Hindus over in India. Mary is emphasized very heavily in that Roman religion. When in reality the New Testament doesn't emphasize Mary at all, she is not mentioned very much, the emphasis of the bible is Jesus. Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

There will be a lot of people at the Great White Throne who will say Lord Lord I did wonderful works, but that is not salvation, see no bible believing Christian would stand before God and start boasting about their works, I mean if I stood before God on Judgement day, and he says I can't go into heaven, I would say "But I believed in you, John 3:16, is that not true" I wouldn't be talking about my works. Only someone who thinks that their works have something to do with salvation would be bringing up their works. In reality the blood of Jesus Christ by grace through faith is what I am trusting in fully for my salvation, zero works, Jesus did the work, he died buried rose again, Jesus Christ paid it all, I did nothing but believed in him, put all my trust in him, called on his name with a child like faith. I have nothing to boast in, a child could do what I did, and there are children who have. We rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh. Philippians 3:3

Romans 3:27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

It is simple to be saved, easy, Jesus said in Matthew 11:28 “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” Jesus gives us the us who are saved the peace of God which passeth understanding, the eternal security of the believer. No works, zero works.

Also, some works salvationists use the last part of Matthew 7:23 "ye that work iniquity." to say that see anyone who sins is not saved, if you do some type of sin, like smoking drinking gambling then youre not saved. well in that case then nobody is saved, because we all sin and come short. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

This is simply Jesus telling the works truster, the boaster that you are a worker of iniquity because they think they are righteous by their deeds, their works. but James 2:10 says “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” Even the thought of foolishness is sin, even telling one lie is enough to damn you to hell. Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Notice it says in his sight. Works justify us before man, but not before God. and the saved believer realizes this and knows this, but they are righteous not because of their filthy rag works, but because of Jesus Christ shed blood, death, burial, resurrection. John 5:24 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

It always baffeled me how Matthew 7:21-23 is one of the top verses people hit you with to say that you can lose your salvation, uh hello it says I never knew you. and this is what you have to prove that you can lose it? but that just shows that the unsaved people of this world are blinded.

Jesus specifically stated exactly why they were condemned in verse 23. “DEPART FROM ME YOU WHO WORK INEQUITY”. If you hadn’t stopped in the middle of the message this would’ve been absolutely clear. Jesus doesn’t say anything about them having a works based salvation. You’re completely inserting that into the passage with no evidence to support it. He specifically said THEREFORE HE WHO HEARS MY WORDS AND ACTS ON THEM IS LIKE THE WISE BUILDER. HE WHO HEARS MY WORDS AND DOESNT ACT ON THEM IS LIKE THE FOOL WHO BUILT HIS HOUSE ON THE SAND.

Notice the very first word in verse 24 “Therefore”. Any time you see the word “Therefore” that’s a clear indication that the message is not completed and the author is expanding upon what precedes it. You cherry picked one tiny piece of the message and completely ignored the bulk of the context.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" Those who will be condemned on Judgement day are those that are boasting in their works, not faith alone believers in Lord Jesus Christ. Works salvationists love to throw parts of Matthew 7:21-23 at you to say you need to do works to be saved, but actually Matthew 7:22 is talking about works salvationists as you see they are boasting in their works before God which is not salvation.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

See, Jesus will tell the works salvation boaster I never knew you, not used to know you but you lost it. yet many people who teach that you can lose your salvation will use Matthew 7:21-23 when actually it says I never knew you. this proves eternal security because once Jesus knows you, you're saved. but these are people that he never knew.

Also the Matthew 7:21 "will of the father" people use this to say ah ha! there you go, you have to do works to be saved, but actually the will of the Father is to believe on the Son. John 6:39-40

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Also notice it says "Many will say to me in that day" Jesus said broad is the way to destruction, Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
there

There are many people who say Lord Lord and talk about their works. All false religions are works based, and a lot of them claim the name of Jesus. Islam claims Jesus of course its a false Jesus, another Jesus. Roman Catholics claim Jesus but its a false Jesus, a Jesus who is a co redeemer, co mediator with Mary. and in some cases Mary is higher as you see with the statues and paintings of a Giant Mary holding a little tiny helpless baby Jesus. and they have a little shrine in the yard to Mary, looks just like the Hindus over in India. Mary is emphasized very heavily in that Roman religion. When in reality the New Testament doesn't emphasize Mary at all, she is not mentioned very much, the emphasis of the bible is Jesus. Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

There will be a lot of people at the Great White Throne who will say Lord Lord I did wonderful works, but that is not salvation, see no bible believing Christian would stand before God and start boasting about their works, I mean if I stood before God on Judgement day, and he says I can't go into heaven, I would say "But I believed in you, John 3:16, is that not true" I wouldn't be talking about my works. Only someone who thinks that their works have something to do with salvation would be bringing up their works. In reality the blood of Jesus Christ by grace through faith is what I am trusting in fully for my salvation, zero works, Jesus did the work, he died buried rose again, Jesus Christ paid it all, I did nothing but believed in him, put all my trust in him, called on his name with a child like faith. I have nothing to boast in, a child could do what I did, and there are children who have. We rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh. Philippians 3:3

Romans 3:27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

It is simple to be saved, easy, Jesus said in Matthew 11:28 “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” Jesus gives us the us who are saved the peace of God which passeth understanding, the eternal security of the believer. No works, zero works.

Also, some works salvationists use the last part of Matthew 7:23 "ye that work iniquity." to say that see anyone who sins is not saved, if you do some type of sin, like smoking drinking gambling then youre not saved. well in that case then nobody is saved, because we all sin and come short. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

This is simply Jesus telling the works truster, the boaster that you are a worker of iniquity because they think they are righteous by their deeds, their works. but James 2:10 says “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” Even the thought of foolishness is sin, even telling one lie is enough to damn you to hell. Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Notice it says in his sight. Works justify us before man, but not before God. and the saved believer realizes this and knows this, but they are righteous not because of their filthy rag works, but because of Jesus Christ shed blood, death, burial, resurrection. John 5:24 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

It always baffeled me how Matthew 7:21-23 is one of the top verses people hit you with to say that you can lose your salvation, uh hello it says I never knew you. and this is what you have to prove that you can lose it? but that just shows that the unsaved people of this world are blinded.

Every time you post these arguments I quote James 5:19-20 and you never address it.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

I suspect you won’t address it again since I’ve posted this numerous times and you refuse to reply to it.

 

[rturner76]

What "particular teaching" is that? I am not going to play guessing games with you.

That's the confusing part. There are a thousand different churches that teach a thousand different things. How do we know which one of these churches is teaching proper doctrine?

You tell me. You are the one that brought up the subject so you must feel you have something to say about it. I do not know what you are fishing for, but you will most likely end up with musk or catfish.

If you ask me I say "yes" we will all face the final judgment. Perhaps I misinterpreted your post. I got the impression that since we are saved by Christ, we are not judged. I apologize for any confusing remarks.

 

[Diamond72]

That's the confusing part. There are a thousand different churches that teach a thousand different things. How do we know which one of these churches is teaching proper doctrine?

I can answer this question because my dad use to ask this question. So I have thought and prayed a lot about it.

"How do we know"? According to the Bible WE KNOW because WE do not need MAN to teach us. The Holy Spirit of God will be our teacher and our Guide. That is what the NEW COVENANT is all about.

…10For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people. 11 No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest. Hebrew 8 11

• John 14:26: "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
• John 16:13: "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."

These verses highlight the Holy Spirit’s role in guiding, teaching, and reminding believers of Jesus' teachings.

We also have the scientific methoid but that another story and the scriptures are not as crystal clear on that one.

Romans 1:20 says: "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

Another verse, Psalm 19:1, states: "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands."

These passages illustrate the idea that creation itself testifies to God's existence and attributes.

 

[Diamond72]

If you ask me I say "yes" we will all face the final judgment.

Yes, according to Christian belief, everyone will stand before the judgment throne of God. Romans 14:10 says, "For we will all stand before God's judgment seat," and 2 Corinthians 5:10 states, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

It's a sobering reminder of accountability and the ultimate justice of God.

 

[Cockcrow]

That's the confusing part. There are a thousand different churches that teach a thousand different things. How do we know which one of these churches is teaching proper doctrine?

There are really only two religions in this world: Works salvation, vs. faith alone in Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only one who says we are not good enough to earn salvation via works, living a good life. only by faith . Luke 8:50 “But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.”

 

[Diamond72]

There are really only two religions in this world: Works salvation, vs. faith alone in Jesus Christ.

In 2 Peter 3:15-16, Peter mentions that some of Paul's letters contain things that are hard to understand, which some people distort to their own destruction. Here's the passage:

"Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

It all has to do with who walks in the flesh and who walks in the spirit.

It's never a one or the other matter. The only difference is overtly controlled by sin/the devil where everyone can see the obvious

What it doesn't mean is that anyone else is sinless or without fault/temptations/evil thoughts that defile us all

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

“DEPART FROM ME YOU WHO WORK INEQUITY”

The really really odd part is that no believer who reads that can figure out that we're all sinners who work iniquity

Actually sad how badly we listen

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Yes, according to Christian belief, everyone will stand before the judgment throne of God. Romans 14:10 says, "For we will all stand before God's judgment seat," and 2 Corinthians 5:10 states, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

It's a sobering reminder of accountability and the ultimate justice of God.

I'd consider God in Christ is the master of conundrums, for example:

John 12:
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Every believer who reads the above believes that the "unbeliever" will be judged adversely.

But they merely failed to listen to Jesus, and the words that will judge such:

I JUDGE HIM NOT

 

[Diamond72]

It's never a one or the other matter. The only difference is overtly controlled by sin/the devil where everyone can see the obvious

What it doesn't mean is that anyone else is sinless or without fault/temptations/evil thoughts that defile us all

We wrestle with our own challenges and imperfections. Even striving to live righteous lives we face temptations and struggles.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The really really odd part is that no believer who reads that can figure out that we're all sinners who work iniquity

Actually sad how badly we listen

That’s not true at all. I’ve stated several times here on CF that no matter how hard I try I still can’t manage to completely refrain from sin and in fact that’s actually the position that the majority of CF members agree with.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There are really only two religions in this world: Works salvation, vs. faith alone in Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only one who says we are not good enough to earn salvation via works, living a good life. only by faith . Luke 8:50 “But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.”

And of course as expected you skipped right over my post again and replied to the post right after it because your theology contradicts scripture and you’re incapable of defending it against the passages that refute it.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

We wrestle with our own challenges and imperfections. Even striving to live righteous lives we face temptations and struggles.

Brilliant deduction

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I try I still can’t manage to completely refrain from sin and in fact that’s actually the position that the majority of CF members agree with.

An honest conclusion is always a good place to start

 

[Lukaris]

God speaks of eternal truth and we live in time before our afterlife. We must try to live according to how God says we are saved. It’s not complicated to understand on a basic level but challenging to live out ( 1 John 1:5-10, 1 John 2:1-29 etc.).

The Lord says by grace we are saved to be lived out seeking to do good ( Ephesians 2:8-10, John 3:16-21 etc.). He gives us His commandments to keep as best we can ( Matthew 22:36-40, Matthew 19:16-19, Romans 13:8-10, Matthew 7:12, John 14:15-18 etc. ). St. Paul explains that this something we live out in life ( Colossians 1:10-23).

 

[BNR32FAN]

An honest conclusion is always a good place to start

Nevertheless it still doesn’t change what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-27. I think it’s obvious that He isn’t talking about perfection here but reverence for His words and for God. I think the idea here is that these people lacked this characteristic.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Nevertheless it still doesn’t change what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-27. I think it’s obvious that He isn’t talking about perfection here but reverence.

The problems always arise when we try to play that it's a "one or the other" situation.

Obviously everyone is a sinner, therefore everyone commits iniquity

Most are simply in denial of the obvious, trying to avoid actually hearing Jesus and applying it to themselves

Why wouldn't Jesus say that to everyone?