Matthew 7:21-23 does not say that you can lose your salvation.

[Cockcrow]

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" Those who will be condemned on Judgement day are those that are boasting in their works, not faith alone believers in Lord Jesus Christ. Works salvationists love to throw parts of Matthew 7:21-23 at you to say you need to do works to be saved, but actually Matthew 7:22 is talking about works salvationists as you see they are boasting in their works before God which is not salvation.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

See, Jesus will tell the works salvation boaster I never knew you, not used to know you but you lost it. yet many people who teach that you can lose your salvation will use Matthew 7:21-23 when actually it says I never knew you. this proves eternal security because once Jesus knows you, you're saved. but these are people that he never knew.

Also the Matthew 7:21 "will of the father" people use this to say ah ha! there you go, you have to do works to be saved, but actually the will of the Father is to believe on the Son. John 6:39-40

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Also notice it says "Many will say to me in that day" Jesus said broad is the way to destruction, Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
there

There are many people who say Lord Lord and talk about their works. All false religions are works based, and a lot of them claim the name of Jesus. Islam claims Jesus of course its a false Jesus, another Jesus. Roman Catholics claim Jesus but its a false Jesus, a Jesus who is a co redeemer, co mediator with Mary. and in some cases Mary is higher as you see with the statues and paintings of a Giant Mary holding a little tiny helpless baby Jesus. and they have a little shrine in the yard to Mary, looks just like the Hindus over in India. Mary is emphasized very heavily in that Roman religion. When in reality the New Testament doesn't emphasize Mary at all, she is not mentioned very much, the emphasis of the bible is Jesus. Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

There will be a lot of people at the Great White Throne who will say Lord Lord I did wonderful works, but that is not salvation, see no bible believing Christian would stand before God and start boasting about their works, I mean if I stood before God on Judgement day, and he says I can't go into heaven, I would say "But I believed in you, John 3:16, is that not true" I wouldn't be talking about my works. Only someone who thinks that their works have something to do with salvation would be bringing up their works. In reality the blood of Jesus Christ by grace through faith is what I am trusting in fully for my salvation, zero works, Jesus did the work, he died buried rose again, Jesus Christ paid it all, I did nothing but believed in him, put all my trust in him, called on his name with a child like faith. I have nothing to boast in, a child could do what I did, and there are children who have. We rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh. Philippians 3:3

Romans 3:27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

It is simple to be saved, easy, Jesus said in Matthew 11:28 “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” Jesus gives us the us who are saved the peace of God which passeth understanding, the eternal security of the believer. No works, zero works.

Also, some works salvationists use the last part of Matthew 7:23 "ye that work iniquity." to say that see anyone who sins is not saved, if you do some type of sin, like smoking drinking gambling then youre not saved. well in that case then nobody is saved, because we all sin and come short. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

This is simply Jesus telling the works truster, the boaster that you are a worker of iniquity because they think they are righteous by their deeds, their works. but James 2:10 says “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” Even the thought of foolishness is sin, even telling one lie is enough to damn you to hell. Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Notice it says in his sight. Works justify us before man, but not before God. and the saved believer realizes this and knows this, but they are righteous not because of their filthy rag works, but because of Jesus Christ shed blood, death, burial, resurrection. John 5:24 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

It always baffeled me how Matthew 7:21-23 is one of the top verses people hit you with to say that you can lose your salvation, uh hello it says I never knew you. and this is what you have to prove that you can lose it? but that just shows that the unsaved people of this world are blinded.

 

[Der Alte]

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" Those who will be condemned on Judgement day are those that are boasting in their works, not faith alone believers in Lord Jesus Christ. Works salvationists love to throw parts of Matthew 7:21-23 at you to say you need to do works to be saved, but actually Matthew 7:22 is talking about works salvationists as you see they are boasting in their works before God which is not salvation.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

See, Jesus will tell the works salvation boaster I never knew you, not used to know you but you lost it. yet many people who teach that you can lose your salvation will use Matthew 7:21-23 when actually it says I never knew you. this proves eternal security because once Jesus knows you, you're saved. but these are people that he never knew.

Also the Matthew 7:21 "will of the father" people use this to say ah ha! there you go, you have to do works to be saved, but actually the will of the Father is to believe on the Son. John 6:39-40

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Also notice it says "Many will say to me in that day" Jesus said broad is the way to destruction, Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
there

There are many people who say Lord Lord and talk about their works. All false religions are works based, and a lot of them claim the name of Jesus. Islam claims Jesus of course its a false Jesus, another Jesus. Roman Catholics claim Jesus but its a false Jesus, a Jesus who is a co redeemer, co mediator with Mary. and in some cases Mary is higher as you see with the statues and paintings of a Giant Mary holding a little tiny helpless baby Jesus. and they have a little shrine in the yard to Mary, looks just like the Hindus over in India. Mary is emphasized very heavily in that Roman religion. When in reality the New Testament doesn't emphasize Mary at all, she is not mentioned very much, the emphasis of the bible is Jesus. Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

There will be a lot of people at the Great White Throne who will say Lord Lord I did wonderful works, but that is not salvation, see no bible believing Christian would stand before God and start boasting about their works, I mean if I stood before God on Judgement day, and he says I can't go into heaven, I would say "But I believed in you, John 3:16, is that not true" I wouldn't be talking about my works. Only someone who thinks that their works have something to do with salvation would be bringing up their works. In reality the blood of Jesus Christ by grace through faith is what I am trusting in fully for my salvation, zero works, Jesus did the work, he died buried rose again, Jesus Christ paid it all, I did nothing but believed in him, put all my trust in him, called on his name with a child like faith. I have nothing to boast in, a child could do what I did, and there are children who have. We rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh. Philippians 3:3

Romans 3:27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

It is simple to be saved, easy, Jesus said in Matthew 11:28 “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” Jesus gives us the us who are saved the peace of God which passeth understanding, the eternal security of the believer. No works, zero works.

Also, some works salvationists use the last part of Matthew 7:23 "ye that work iniquity." to say that see anyone who sins is not saved, if you do some type of sin, like smoking drinking gambling then youre not saved. well in that case then nobody is saved, because we all sin and come short. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

This is simply Jesus telling the works truster, the boaster that you are a worker of iniquity because they think they are righteous by their deeds, their works. but James 2:10 says “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” Even the thought of foolishness is sin, even telling one lie is enough to damn you to hell. and the saved believer realizes this and knows this, but they are righteous not because of their filthy rag works, but because of Jesus Christ shed blood, death, burial, resurrection. John 5:24 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

It always baffeled me how Matthew 7:21-23 is one of the top verses people hit you with to say that you can lose your salvation, uh hello it says I never knew you. and this is what you have to prove that you can lose it? but that just shows that the unsaved people of this world are blinded.

A good argument against Universal Reconciliation

 

[Matt5]

When Jesus comes back, who is he talking to?

Who is left?

Didn't everybody take the mark?

Isn't Jesus talking to Christians who had taken the mark?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

but these are people that he never knew.

People? I thought all people have One Heavenly Father? Matt. 23:9

I'd suggest a re-examination of the term people and what they consist of.

How so? Jesus looked at Peter and spoke to Satan. Satan entered Judas.

Short version: In the scriptural sights, people are never just and only people

There are people, and there is our adversary, the devil and his own (demon) children.

Basically an alien race that are not people. Unseen even.

Wild huh?

 

[ozso]

We should be obedient to God and do good works because we love Him and that's what He wants from us and for us.

 

[JulieB67]

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" Those who will be condemned on Judgement day are those that are boasting in their works, not faith alone believers in Lord Jesus Christ. Works salvationists love to throw parts of Matthew 7:21-23 at you to say you need to do works to be saved, but actually Matthew 7:22 is talking about works salvationists as you see they are boasting in their works before God which is not salvation.

This has nothing to do with good works that a Christian was created to do.

You skip verses that are important to the context.

For example in Ephesians 2, you omitted verse 10


Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Anyone created in Christ Jesus (the new man/creature) is created unto "good works" and God before ordained that we should walk in them.

In Matthew 7 if you go up a few verses-

Matthew 7:19 "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."

Matthew 7:20 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Many so called Christian churches today teach false doctrines, etc. If one does so their works are not accepted. And many Christians will fall away- some will fall away in apostasy -especially in the latter days. We are told this -that they will not endure sound doctrine. This is the type of person Christ is talking about. Not actual Christians that do produce good fruit/works in his name. Anyone with true faith will produce them naturally if possible. And if not possible in certain instances -their true faith as Paul states will count. But most Christians will have works come out of their faith, how can it not if a person is created in Christ to do them? And ordained from God to walk in them? We can't just cherry pick verses out of the Word. We have to take it as a whole.

Christ even gave us the parable about the 10 virgins -all are waiting on the bridegroom so they all believe in Christ. Unbelievers would not be waiting on the bridegroom, yet 5 did not make it.

We are told that if we love God, we are to keep his commandments and they are not grievous. Christ states we can hang all the law on these- loving God with all our heart, mind and soul and to love our neighbor as our self. Good works should naturally come from those if possible.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

See, Jesus will tell the works salvation boaster I never knew you, not used to know you but you lost it. yet many people who teach that you can lose your salvation will use Matthew 7:21-23 when actually it says I never knew you. this proves eternal security because once Jesus knows you, you're saved. but these are people that he never knew.

Your positions would do well to remember that Jesus looked at Peter and spoke to Satan, after Satan spoke through Peter's own lips.

How many devils are shown to speak through people in the Gospels? Thousands.

Now every believer should be able to come to grips with this most obvious aspect of scripture. People are not alone. None of us are freestanding individuals in the eyes of scriptures. We all have, present tense have, sin. We are all tempted. We all see only in part, meaning we are all at least partly blinded. Sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8. We are all tempted in mind. We ALL have evil lawless thoughts that defile us, Mark 7:21-23

We also know that the god of this world blinds the minds of people so they can't believe. 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

We also know that the ministry of Paul was specifically stated to turn people from the power of the devil, his darkness. Acts 26:18

All of this and much much more, even since the day of Adam and Eve in the Garden, has been an exercise in engaging the TEMPTER and his works in us all. None of us are sinless, other than Jesus.

Now, WHO is going to be saying Lord Lord?

That answer should turn away from people, and look as Jesus did, intently upon our enemies whom Jesus does not know. THEY will for a fact be sent to the LoF. Bank on it.

Positions that condemn people over various doctrines are always off. Why? Because sins are not counted against people: 2 Cor. 5:19

We all should bear the message of reconciliation toward ALL our neighbors and stop trying to condemn everyone and everyway to hell when the biggest perp who ever existed stares at us all in the mirror, and we can't even perceive it:

How much of this do any of us really believe?

Jer. 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Yes, that is a fact for all of us. And it is so because a DECEIVER resides therein. Mark 4:15

I pray everyone would turn ADVERSE JUDGMENT to their own selves, because of this. Hearing Jesus say "Depart from me, I never knew you" is actually what we all should be HOPING FOR

 

[Cockcrow]

Your positions would do well to remember that Jesus looked at Peter and spoke to Satan, after Satan spoke through Peter's own lips.

How many devils are shown to speak through people in the Gospels? Thousands.

Now every believer should be able to come to grips with this most obvious aspect of scripture. People are not alone. None of us are freestanding individuals in the eyes of scriptures. We all have, present tense have, sin. We are all tempted. We all see only in part, meaning we are all at least partly blinded. Sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8. We are all tempted in mind. We ALL have evil lawless thoughts that defile us, Mark 7:21-23

We also know that the god of this world blinds the minds of people so they can't believe. 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

We also know that the ministry of Paul was specifically stated to turn people from the power of the devil, his darkness. Acts 26:18

All of this and much much more, even since the day of Adam and Eve in the Garden, has been an exercise in engaging the TEMPTER and his works in us all. None of us are sinless, other than Jesus.

Now, WHO is going to be saying Lord Lord?

That answer should turn away from people, and look as Jesus did, intently upon our enemies whom Jesus does not know. THEY will for a fact be sent to the LoF. Bank on it.

Positions that condemn people over various doctrines are always off. Why? Because sins are not counted against people: 2 Cor. 5:19

We all should bear the message of reconciliation toward ALL our neighbors and stop trying to condemn everyone and everyway to hell when the biggest perp who ever existed stares at us all in the mirror, and we can't even perceive it:

How much of this do any of us really believe?

Jer. 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Yes, that is a fact for all of us. And it is so because a DECEIVER resides therein. Mark 4:15

I pray everyone would turn ADVERSE JUDGMENT to their own selves, because of this. Hearing Jesus say "Depart from me, I never knew you" is actually what we all should be HOPING FOR

Believe means to be fully persuaded, synonym is trust. believe does not mean works.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." So Yes you are saved by grace through faith, no you are not saved by works.

 

[Cockcrow]

This has nothing to do with good works that a Christian was created to do.

You skip verses that are important to the context.

For example in Ephesians 2, you omitted verse 10


Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Anyone created in Christ Jesus (the new man/creature) is created unto "good works" and God before ordained that we should walk in them.

In Matthew 7 if you go up a few verses-

Matthew 7:19 "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."

Matthew 7:20 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Many so called Christian churches today teach false doctrines, etc. If one does so their works are not accepted. And many Christians will fall away- some will fall away in apostasy -especially in the latter days. We are told this -that they will not endure sound doctrine. This is the type of person Christ is talking about. Not actual Christians that do produce good fruit/works in his name. Anyone with true faith will produce them naturally if possible. And if not possible in certain instances -their true faith as Paul states will count. But most Christians will have works come out of their faith, how can it not if a person is created in Christ to do them? And ordained from God to walk in them? We can't just cherry pick verses out of the Word. We have to take it as a whole.

Christ even gave us the parable about the 10 virgins -all are waiting on the bridegroom so they all believe in Christ. Unbelievers would not be waiting on the bridegroom, yet 5 did not make it.

We are told that if we love God, we are to keep his commandments and they are not grievous. Christ states we can hang all the law on these- loving God with all our heart, mind and soul and to love our neighbor as our self. Good works should naturally come from those if possible.

we should do a lot of things, but when it comes to what MUST we do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Believe means

I think most of us understand what believe means is entirely dependent on who we ask

Most believers don't even know if they are saved or not. They only have reasonable assurance, meaning maybe, maybe not

Some will even insist we must doubt our salvation or we're not saved

 

[Diamond72]

you are not saved by works.

Works do not save us, they are evidence that we are saved. You can not put the cart before the horse.

 

[rturner76]

Ok, guess there is no need for the day of judgment. Have we canceled that appointment with our Supreme Being or is the Bible no longer a reliable documant?

 

[Diamond72]

Ok, guess there is no need for the day of judgment.

In Christian belief, those who are saved are judged differently from those who are not. Romans 8:1 states, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." This suggests that believers are not judged for their sins in the same way, because Jesus' sacrifice covers their transgressions.

Instead, believers are judged for their actions and the lives they've led, as seen in 2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."

 

[Cockcrow]

Works do not save us, they are evidence that we are saved. You can not put the cart before the horse.

How can works be the evidence of salvation when salvation has nothing to do with works?

 

[Diamond72]

Believe means to be fully persuaded, synonym is trust. believe does not mean works.

Christians believe in the life, teachings, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Here are some core beliefs:

1. Monotheism: Belief in one God.
2. Trinity: God exists as Father, Son (Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit.
3. Salvation: Humans can be saved from sin and eternal separation from God through faith in Jesus Christ.
4. Bible: The holy scripture, consisting of the Old and New Testaments.
5. Resurrection: Jesus' resurrection from the dead, a cornerstone of faith.
6. Afterlife: Belief in heaven and hell; eternal life for believers.

These points form the foundation of Christianity, offering a path of faith and spiritual growth.

 

[rturner76]

Instead, believers are judged for their actions and the lives they've led, as seen in 2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."

So then we DO have a day of judgment? What are you trying to say? Christians will not be judged? Which brand (s) of Christianity will not face any judgment? Your brand or the over 1,000 others all with their different belief systems?

 

[rturner76]

In Christian belief, those who are saved are judged differently from those who are not. Romans 8:1 states, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." This suggests that believers are not judged for their sins in the same way, because Jesus' sacrifice covers their transgressions.

Instead, believers are judged for their actions and the lives they've led, as seen in 2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."

How is that affected by the particular teachings of the 1,000 different denominations? Are they all exemp from judgement?

 

[Diamond72]

So then we DO have a day of judgment?

You tell me. You are the one that brought up the subject so you must feel you have something to say about it. I do not know what you are fishing for, but you will most likely end up with musk or catfish.

 

[Diamond72]

How is that affected by the particular teachings of the 1,000 different denominations?

What "particular teaching" is that? I am not going to play guessing games with you.

 

[JulieB67]

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ

What exactly are you believing though? Do you believe in his ministry and what he taught? He didn't have anything against good works that a Christian performs and stated "by their fruits you will know them". It's pretty simple. John as we've stated time and time again says if we say we have fellowship with him -meaning these are obviously people that believe they are Christians -but walk in darkness -the truth is not in them.

In Revelation in his letter to one of the churches -

Revelation 2:2 "I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars

We see here Christ is not against works

Revelation 2:3 "And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted."

They have labored for his name and still nothing against that.

Here is the problem-

Revelation 2:4 "Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

They have fallen away


Revelation 2:5 "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

Now, your threads are all over the place mainly -against "works", repentance, etc but one only has to look at these verses and see that not only did Christ accept good works but that he also taught repentance or else....