Manhunt in Solingen, Germany after 3 dead in stabbing attack at "Festival of Diversity"

[essentialsaltes]

The perpetrator has turned himself in. He is a male 26 year old syrian who should have been deported last year and who never was suspected of terrorist plans.

Germany's Bild and Spiegel news websites reported that the suspect surrendered himself in dirty blood-stained clothes.

Police described him as Syrian, and German media reported that he arrived in Germany in December 2022, after leaving the war-torn country.

Bild reported that special task force (SEK) officers stormed a refugee centre that the suspect was associated with, detaining another person there.

Police also arrested a 15-year-old boy who is alleged to have known about the attack in advance.

The refugee centre is located about 300m (984ft) from Fronhof - Solingen's central market square where people were stabbed on Friday night - according to Bild.

 

[rjs330]

Another example of rhe problem of allowing so many immigrants into your country without a serious vetting process before they are allowed.in. Just because they claim to be refugees doesn't make them good people and worthy of being let loose in your country.
Countries are having enough problems with their own people.

 

[trophy33]

There have been 21,000 knife attacks in Germany in 2022. Its 60 attacks every day, on average. The focal points are train stations and the most of perpetrators are "non-German".

 

[Chesterton]

Sure...but it's a lack of accuracy in perception. You wouldn't call someone sleepwalking into someone else's home (even if trespassing) deliberate simply because their brain fed them minute amounts of information in an altered state.

When someone drives drunk and kills someone that's not deliberate either, but that's comparing apples and oranges with someone who goes to a public gathering carrying a knife and using it.

The nature of truth and objective reality means that an impaired ability to recognize truth and understand reality is extremely dangerous or at least limiting.

Someone who believes in a flat earth for example isn't really a danger to themselves or others....but someone who feels that is very important information and wants to prove it could be. They could end up hurting themselves....or damage relationships and alienate others through obsessive behaviors.

Someone having a psychotic episode is having persistent hallucinations and severe issues with their ability to control their emotions. It's not going to be a good situation regardless of whether they're hearing persecutory voices and in an extreme state of stress and panic....or whether they're under the belief God is speaking to them and they have abnormal abilities or divine purpose.




Right...well think of this as a simple way of understanding it....excessive good emotions paired with hallucinations and delusions. A person may believe that Tarantino is sending them messages hidden in his movies...and if they simply drop everything and drive out to his home, they'll be a huge star. Upon pursuing this goal you can imagine how it turns out...legal restraints, jail, homelessness, drug use, etc. It can be an extremely positive delusion....but it's always inherently self interested. We're inherently self interested. Even those children throwing soup on famous paintings want desperately to be seen as moral actors pursuing a grand goal of saving the world....despite no actual plan for how.

Always be suspicious of zealots that lack wisdom.

Two other things are also possible: the news likes to report bad stuff, so we'd probably never hear about someone having a psychotic break and doing good things. It could also be that psychotic breaks are caused or used by

.

 

[Chesterton]

I think in most cases that's because psychotic episodes are usually attached to a personality disorder of some sort that involves a sociopathy that removes empathy.

The one exception to that rule could be people with manic depressive disorder.

I have a family member who, in a manic state, decided to binge impulse purchase a bunch of gifts for family members.

But manic depression is not psychosis.

 

[Chesterton]

The perpetrator has turned himself in. He is a male 26 year old syrian who should have been deported last year and who never was suspected of terrorist plans.

You left out the most important part - what's his religious affiliation? Christian, right? He's gotta be a Christian or this thread wouldn't have been created.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There are the Ahmadiyya, a islamic reform movement with about 10 to 20 million members, who are far more tolerant in almost every regard. Of course, that causes more traditional islamic denominations to denounce them as not really being muslims, but that mirrors the treatment of early protestants by the catholic church.

That's certainly encouraging. The problem I see, is 10-20 million of 1.6 billion are struggling to gain traction for obvious reasons. Those 1,580, 000, 000 Muslims think the other 10-20 should be killed for apostasy.

This is generally, speaking of course.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Another example of rhe problem of allowing so many immigrants into your country without a serious vetting process before they are allowed.in. Just because they claim to be refugees doesn't make them good people and worthy of being let loose in your country.
Countries are having enough problems with their own people.

Even if they don't admit it....I think people on the left genuinely believe controlling immigration is racism.

This is absurd of course, because there's no Syrian race...or any "race" that actually exists outside of the minds of racists. These are nationalities. These are foreign citizens of foreign nations. It fundamentally does not matter to anyone who understands this what nation a large number of people are suddenly coming from, is not a race issue. If a bunch of middle class Russian people suddenly showed up at our border by the millions...I wouldn't advocate they be allowed in. It's a hostile nation that fundamentally tries to undermine ours. There's very good reasons to keep them out...just as there are for many nations.

There's no logical or factual reason for why we should have to just allow mass illegal migration. I think legal migration is a good thing. If you've been approved to come here because you want to live or work in our society and we see good reason to let you....even if temporarily....that's great. Mass illegal migration though is literally just turning the successful western democracies into unstable, impoverished, and violent nations....for the profit of corporate interests. Those jobs which cannot be outsourced to foreign nations because they must be done locally, and local union restrictions or minimum wages restrict how little these jobs are paid, will eventually be done by foreigners working for illegal wages and child labor.

 

[Nithavela]

That's certainly encouraging. The problem I see, is 10-20 million of 1.6 billion are struggling to gain traction for obvious reasons. Those 1,580, 000, 000 Muslims think the other 10-20 should be killed for apostasy.

This is generally, speaking of course.

Small steps. Took christianity a few centuries to get out of its phase, too.

I'm not too optimistic about the changes really getting traction while we are alive, though.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Small steps. Took christianity a few centuries to get out of its phase, too.

Let's be realistic...1400 years into Christianity is a lot different than 1400 years into Islam. There's no lack of science, logic, or fact preventing these folks from understanding truth. A large number of them still marry first cousins....because it's allowed in their religion (if I recall correctly, they just think it shouldn't happen "too often").

Western European Christians didn't have some other group to instruct them in science or create physics. They had to talk amongst themselves. Isaac Newton was describing basic physics in England in the 1600s....barely 1400 years after Christianity really began to spread beyond the confines of Rome and less if we consider when it took root in England. Is there some brilliant factually provable descriptions of the world coming out of the Islamic world? Or are they still stoning women for not covering their heads in public?

"Give it time" isn't an argument for letting them into the nation....especially when they have one foot still on the starting line. I'm certainly not telling Germany what to do...but forcing them to respect all the laws of your nation isn't bad. If they describe it as something they cannot abide or tolerate because of their religion.....they're the intolerant bigots, not Germans.

I'm not too optimistic about the changes really getting traction while we are alive, though.

Me neither lol.

 

[FireDragon76]

Ironically the city is known as the "City of Blades" due to its manufacture of knives and swords down the ages. I guess a Festival of Diversity, as in other towns, celebrates intercultural dialog. The village is first mentioned a thousand years ago so I guess they mark the founding of the town from when it got walls. It suffered greatly during the wars between Protestants and Catholics and given that history a festival celebrating tolerance makes some sense. Knife crime is a growing issue here in Germany. There is no clarity on who committed this attack at the moment nor why they did it. It sounds like an Islamist attack and the Islamic state has claimed it but they always claim these kinds of things. The targets were older Germans but we do not know anymore at the moment.

Mainstream news outlets are reporting the attacker was inspired by ISIS. ISIS has claimed support for the attacking, citing the Palestinian conflict with Israel as justification.

Germany seems to be more neutral in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, which means ISIS claimed justification shouldn't be treated at face value. I think ISIS is really trying to draw attention to themselves and attract disgruntled young immigrants in Europe to engage in spectacular attacks for publicity seeking purposes, because ISIS project has been such a failure in the Middle East.

 

[rjs330]

Mainstream news outlets are reporting the attacker was inspired by ISIS. ISIS has claimed support for the attacking, citing the Palestinian conflict with Israel as justification.

Germany seems to be more neutral in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, which means ISIS claimed justification shouldn't be treated at face value. I think ISIS is really trying to draw attention to themselves and attract disgruntled young immigrants in Europe to engage in spectacular attacks for publicity seeking purposes, because ISIS project has been such a failure in the Middle East.

Then ISIS is involved. And appears to be influencing immigrants. Immigrants who were from areas that hate the west and/or Israel. This is another reason why countries should not allow these people into their countries. It us too dangerous. Not without a serious vetting first.

 

[FireDragon76]

This is another reason why countries should not allow these people into their countries. It us too dangerous. Not without a serious vetting first.

That seems an unwarranted and unjust conclusion. My point wasn't to stigmatize immigrants. One of the most spectacular terrorist attacks in recent European history was committed by a Christian Nationalist, Anders Brevik, a native of Norway (not an immigrant, and not Muslim).

 

[Chesterton]

That seems an unwarranted and unjust conclusion. My point wasn't to stigmatize immigrants. One of the most spectacular terrorist attacks in recent European history was committed by a Christian Nationalist, Anders Brevik, a native of Norway (not an immigrant, and not Muslim).

Not a Muslim, and also not a Christian. You can read many of Brevik's crazy beliefs here. He thought he was a member of a Knights Templar type group which was a figment of his imagination. He was diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. He says the Jesus figure and his message are pathetic. He prays to and sacrifices to the god Odin. If anything, he was an Odinist Nationalist.

 

[BNR32FAN]

During a press conference, a police spokesperson said their “current assessment is that this was a deliberate attack.”

Sounds like they’re pretty confident that this wasn’t an accidental stabbing of eleven people. That’s pretty good detective work I’d say.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That seems an unwarranted and unjust conclusion. My point wasn't to stigmatize immigrants. One of the most spectacular terrorist attacks in recent European history was committed by a Christian Nationalist, Anders Brevik, a native of Norway (not an immigrant, and not Muslim).

He was inspired by immigrants....if you recall.

In fact, he saw increased immigration, particularly muslims, as a problem for his nation.

I don't condone his horrific actions of course....but if we're being honest, it's increasingly difficult to say the underlying premise of his motives is incorrect.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Not a Muslim, and also not a Christian. You can read many of Brevik's crazy beliefs here. He thought he was a member of a Knights Templar type group which was a figment of his imagination. He was diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. He says the Jesus figure and his message are pathetic. He prays to and sacrifices to the god Odin. If anything, he was an Odinist Nationalist.

I'm going to agree he's delusional....but the idea that he is a paranoid schizophrenic is a dismissive label.

He went to great lengths to acquire firearms. I forget where he initially tried to acquire them (Czech Republic maybe) but he systematically studied multiple nations' gun laws to figure out where he could acquire his firearms and even traveled abroad to do so. Then he not only built an explosive device that was timed to distract police when he began his massacre....it succeeded in detonating and killing people....before he began his shooting spree with a police uniform on.

There are mass killings committed by paranoid schizophrenics....but I've never seen one that sophisticated and coordinated with that level of planning.

I'd argue he's a terrorist and delusional, but the schizophrenic label may just be political.

 

[Chesterton]

I'm going to agree he's delusional....but the idea that he is a paranoid schizophrenic is a dismissive label.

He went to great lengths to acquire firearms. I forget where he initially tried to acquire them (Czech Republic maybe) but he systematically studied multiple nations' gun laws to figure out where he could acquire his firearms and even traveled abroad to do so. Then he not only built an explosive device that was timed to distract police when he began his massacre....it succeeded in detonating and killing people....before he began his shooting spree with a police uniform on.

There are mass killings committed by paranoid schizophrenics....but I've never seen one that sophisticated and coordinated with that level of planning.

I'd argue he's a terrorist and delusional, but the schizophrenic label may just be political.

Well that's why I included a link to the medical abstract - so no one would say the label is dismissive or political.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well that's why I included a link to the medical abstract - so no one would say the label is dismissive or political.

I appreciate it lol...but I'm still going to disagree.

Norway doesn't seem to be holding the same standards for these labels as we do.

 

[rjs330]

That seems an unwarranted and unjust conclusion. My point wasn't to stigmatize immigrants. One of the most spectacular terrorist attacks in recent European history was committed by a Christian Nationalist, Anders Brevik, a native of Norway (not an immigrant, and not Muslim).

Was he? I don't recall him being a Christisn Nationalist at all. There is this...
Thomas Hegghammer of the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment described the ideologies of Breivik as "not fitting the established categories of right-wing ideology, like white supremacism, ultranationalism or Christian fundamentalism", but more akin to macro-nationalism and a "new doctrine of civilisational war".[306] Norwegian social scientist Lars Gule characterised Breivik as a "national conservative, not a Nazi".[307] Pepe Egger of the think-tank Exclusive Analysis says "the bizarre thing is that his ideas, as Islamophobic as they are, are almost mainstream in many European countries".[308

He could have been a white Nationalist.

I think you are making a boogy man out of the Christian Nationaist again.

I wasn't really making a conclusion other than my own. It seems that Europe is having more and more problems with these immigrants. A by product of letting so many in invested. They are causing problems.