Lust vs. Showing Affection

[horuhe00]

What's the difference between lust and wanting to hug, kiss, caress, hold, be close to the person you love? And can one love a person and want to marry that person without ever lusting over that person? What are your thoughts?

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Lust and sexual desire are two different things.
Don't get them confused.

Lust is selfishness and greed.

 

[horuhe00]

Jeez, a topic about lust and affection and in 12 hours, only ONE RESPONSE!?!?!?!?!

 

[chippy2000]

I believe lust may involve comprimising your normal activities to pursue your desires. I believe Affection can turn into lust once the boundaries have been intentionally broken. Say for instance you and your partner have established a boundary of stopping physical contact when some physical signs show (I'm sure you can guess) and you choose to ignore them and keep going anyway. Or when you choose to ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ardeur]

I was just wondering about this same thing about a week ago. I am in my first relationship and I'm getting to express love and physical affection (in a romantic way) for the very first time. Establishing boundaries and distinguishing between love, affection, and lust has been foremost on my mind. I will post some definitions from Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Lust:
1 obsolete a : [size=-1]PLEASURE[/size], [size=-1]DELIGHT[/size] b : personal inclination : [size=-1]WISH[/size]
2 : usually intense or unbridled sexual desire : [size=-1]LASCIVIOUSNESS[/size] [Lewdness]
3 a : an intense longing : [size=-1]CRAVING[/size] b : [size=-1]ENTHUSIASM[/size], [size=-1]EAGERNESS[/size]

I will take definition 2 to be the one that applies to the question at hand. In that regard I will say that I think chippy2000 hit the nail on the head. "Unbridled Sexual Desire." For Christians we have our personal and biblical (sometimes one and the same) boundaries for our romantic involvement with a member of the oposite sex. Crossing those boundaries is crossing into the lust zone. I think it is a completely unselfish act when two people have set boundaries and they are both trying their hardest (with the Lords help) to respect that other person and respect those boundaries. For me, keeping my thoughts pure is part of my boundaries for my relationship. I consider myself lusting if I even indulge in that area, as well as the physical parts in the relationship. IOW, doing things that you know are forbidden outside of marriage is lustful activity.

 

[ardeur]

Can one love a person and want to marry that person without ever lusting after that person?

In a perfect world, probably yes. I don't think a couple can avoid lust before the wedding. I think it can be brought to a very minimal with the daily renewing of the mind and setting it under the Lords control, being accountable to another Christian for your lustful thoughts and actions, and having a genuine conviction to remain pure (at least these things are an excellent place to start). I believe a lot of Christians fall into sin possibly because they don't understand the dangers of certain types of physicality (due to ignorance or naivety), because they may not have high enough standards for themselves, and/or because they don't have a genuine conviction to remain pure. That theorey isn't all-encompasing, though. They're just thoughts and observations that have been running through my head for a while now.

 

[Singing Bush]

Well they'll frequently both have resulting actions that are the same. A kiss that one day is loving can a week later be lustful. What matters is not the actions so much themselves, but the heart behind the actions. If the impetus for kissing another is to satisfy your own sexual desires solely then it can reliably said to be lust. A clearly identified loving kiss, on the other hand, I think would be a little more difficult to identify in many circumstances. If you were kissing your significant other to please them or develop intimacy in your relationship then it can probably be reliably said to be a loving kiss.

That said there were certainly be exceptions and much crossover.

For example, God designed us to be attracted to each other and w/ our sex drives so satisfying them isn't always bad in a relationship. In that way lust is much like greed. It's not necessarily bad to want to money as long as that desire does become an overwhelming drive. Likewise, kissing your woman or man aint gonna be bad if you partially do it to derive pleasure from it so long as that is not the predominating reason.

As far as being able to love and wanting to marry a person w/o lusting for them... well I suppose it's theoretically possible, but I doubt it ever occurs in any particular individual. I mean can someone love God w/o ever doing so for your own selfish reasons, such as your own glory for being such a great Christian? Sure it's possible, but not probable.

Just my thoughts at least...

 

[fluffy_rainbow]

My best advice is this - try not to "over-spiritualize" relationships. Me, personally, I could not be in a relationship with a man whom I did not think I would enjoy making love to if he was my husband. Sexual attraction is very important in a relationship. Lust is about being self-serving, about seeking your own selfish pleasures. Sexual attraction is about longing to be with a person you care about. I think there's a difference. I see nothing lustful about wanting to hold hands, kiss, and hold your SO. It's only lustful if you push the sexual boundaries against their will hoping for your own sexual gratification.

 

[ardeur]

Lust is about being self-serving, about seeking your own selfish pleasures. Sexual attraction is about longing to be with a person you care about. I think there's a difference. I see nothing lustful about wanting to hold hands, kiss, and hold your SO. It's only lustful if you push the sexual boundaries against their will hoping for your own sexual gratification.

I agree. I see nothing wrong with wanting to hold, hug, and kiss, and being sexually attracted to the person I am in a relationship with. I would be concerned if either he or I did not feel that way about each other!

 

[Johnnz]

The issue of lust in real one. Young people have a very high hormone produced sex drive in their early teens, which frequently leads to sexual activity of some sort. Some are very sexual people, with a naturally strong sex drive.Such people can really struggle with their christian values,a nd can easily ffeel guilty about their level of interest in sexual matters.We are sexual beings and our sex drive is a wonderfully creative part of human relationships.



This equation of arousal (i.e. an erection for guys, “getting the hots” for girls) with biblical lust is unfortunate. I am not greedy because I salivate at the sight and smell of delicious food. I am not being covetous when my head is turned by someone driving a fast sports car. There is a vast difference between a reaction to something, and a wrongful indulgence of it. Lust requires an intentional desire, and is far more than a natural sexual response to a sexual stimulus. Not all male arousal or its female counterparts can be automatically labelled as ‘lust’. This is a difficult concept for most Christians to grasp.



When Jesus spoke of lusting after a woman he was not referring to normal, healthy physical desires, or a spontaneous, essentially physical response. I have arrived at a place where I do not see as being necessarily sinful (‘lustful’) any of the following.

• Having sexual desires. These are God given, and begin to exert a strong influence on us from puberty. Hormones are chemicals some of which cause sexual desires in humans. We must not be at war with God’s design. We should be able to rejoice in our sexuality, our bodies, and in the physical pleasures they give to us.
• Enjoyment and appreciation of the human body, both one’s own and others’. This is normal and healthy, not sinful ‘lust’. Openness about such enjoyment should not attract labels such as ‘dirty old man’, voyeurism, obscene, ‘loose woman’ being applied to otherwise morally respectable people.
• Male arousal, whether spontaneously while asleep, while thinking about sexual matters, when produced by an attractive female, or at the sight of a naked body, nor any corresponding sexual feelings experienced by woman.
• Enjoying sex with a spouse as a physical, emotional and spiritual activity, and actively contemplating it should be a part of any marriage.

John
NZ

 

[chippy2000]

I'm not sure if I'm pushing boundaries here but would that mean that masturbation is not sinful?

 

[horuhe00]

I'm not sure if I'm pushing boundaries here but would that mean that masturbation is not sinful?

That's one of the classic debates in these forums. Never mind that 99% of the guys and 75% of the girls have done it at least once, you'll never change the minds of people about it here

 

[chippy2000]

I've heard it said before that there are two types of men in this world masturbaters and liars.

 

[horuhe00]

Anyway, back to the original thread....

 

[horuhe00]

So there's nothing wrong with hugging, kissing, caressing, holding, be close to the person you love? And it could actualy be unhealthy if this isn't in a relationship?

 

[Johnnz]

I'm not sure if I'm pushing boundaries here but would that mean that masturbation is not sinful?

What were you referring to when you said "would that mean"? What is the that?

John
NZ

 

[chippy2000]

.

• Enjoyment and appreciation of the human body, both one’s own and others’. This is normal and healthy, not sinful ‘lust’. Openness about such enjoyment should not attract labels such as ‘dirty old man’, voyeurism, obscene, ‘loose woman’ being applied to otherwise morally respectable people.
• Male arousal, whether spontaneously while asleep, while thinking about sexual matters, when produced by an attractive female, or at the sight of a naked body, nor any corresponding sexual feelings experienced by woman.

John
NZ

That's what the "that" is.

 

[Johnnz]

Thanks

I did not have masturbation in mind when I wrote that. I was presenting what I consider to be normal physiological and psychological components of our sexuality, which should not utomaticllay be labeled as lust.

Lust is a conscious involvement with morally wrong sexual desires. Thus, I see a guy's virtually spontaneous erection to a sexual stimulus more as a conditioned response that a moral failing. Of course, what the guy does with his sexual arousal does subsequently become a moral issue and can lead to lust.

Masturbation is a chosen activity. Christians vary in their views on its moral status.

John
NZ

 

[alluredegrace]

So, would be it pushing it too far to say that by using your heart and doing what you fell spiritually with a mate sexually is wrong?This includes trust and a strong love of a long relationship, a first for both.

 

[chippy2000]

Are you getting at pre-marital sex?