Lust VS Passion

[mkgal1]

But we also know we aren't to burn with passion; "burning with passion" is, imo, lust. And that Scripture says it is better to marry than to burn with passion. So, in a situation where there is love driving the couple, lust can be a strengthening bond, imo.

Here is something about that. If we're going to use "lust" in that instance......marriage does NOT settle lust issues. It will settle the issue of burning with passion for one particular woman....and provide the "outlet" to express that sexually, however.

 

[Conservativation]

Ok MK lust is evil shallow and bad....got it, those of us who experience it can only hope to achieve the balance, the spiritual nirvana, the dedication to principles that you (and maybe romans) have.

Its as if you, who are usually big on posting definitions, didnt even pay attention to the ones posted for lust, because that would upset your apple cart of sanctimony.

 

[mkgal1]

What's been posted as definitions have been either from opinion or a secular dictionary. We are told that in the end times (which have really been since the beginning of the church--so we ARE in the "end times" to a certain degree--always have been).....evil will be twisted into what is considered good, and the other way around. THIS is exactly how that happens. When things all get thrown into the same pile....the good and the bad. Some see good....some see bad...all looking at that same pile.

 

[mkgal1]

Ephesians 5

Walk in Love

1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know,[a] that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Another version

Ephesians 5

Living in the Light

1 Imitate God, therefore, in everything you do, because you are his dear children. 2 Live a life filled with love, following the example of Christ. He loved us[a] and offered himself as a sacrifice for us, a pleasing aroma to God.
3 Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. 4 Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. 5 You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.

Whatever you want to call it, the Bible says greed (lust) coveteousness (lust)...sexual immorality (lust)....ALL to have NO place in the lives of Christians (including marriage). There is a very strong warning there, that shouldn't be ignored. Thankfully, as far as I know....no one sees greed as a good thing. So far, I think most agree that greed is an intense and selfish desire for something.

 

[Athene]

Interesting topic.

I can't say I've ever put a huge amount of thought in to this and I dare say I've been using lust and passion interchangeably. When DH was digging topless in the garden earlier, I would have said I was lusting after him because he looked so darn foxy, but I guess it could have been passion.

A while ago I read an article about mistresses of wealthy men. One of the things I remember about the article is that it said that if the guy left his wife and married his mistress, that marriage is often short lived. I would guess that this is because the relationship between the man and his mistress was based on lust. They didn't enter in to a relationship with a future together in mind, it was always going to be illicit and sexual.

So yeah, thinking of it that way, a distinction should possibly be made.

 

[Conservativation]

What's been posted as definitions have been either from opinion or a secular dictionary. We are told that in the end times (which have really been since the beginning of the church--so we ARE in the "end times" to a certain degree--always have been).....evil will be twisted into what is considered good, and the other way around. THIS is exactly how that happens. When things all get thrown into the same pile....the good and the bad. Some see good....some see bad...all looking at that same pile.

This is not correct, when i say lust...I MEAN something, I am using it in the way I mean it. Don't give me secular dictionary and good and bad. The condition of my heart and mind as I use the word is far more important than the word itself, or else we are in huge trouble.

I cant even believe you would say such a thing, so obsessed you are with squashing this WORD.....you dont even care what it means, you are going to prove that this word lust is bad no matter what. When did we get to the point where words in English are what determines out spiritual condition instead of our hearts?

What is your mission here, to bash a word, or to bash a concept. Its quite reasonable to bash the concept you are bashing, that i can accept, but this fixation that if one uses this particular word its whats predicted in the end times about bad and good swapping is HIGHLY presumptuous

 

[mkgal1]

A while ago I read an article about mistresses of wealthy men. One of the things I remember about the article is that it said that if the guy left his wife and married his mistress, that marriage is often short lived. I would guess that this is because the relationship between the man and his mistress was based on lust. They didn't enter in to a relationship with a future together in mind, it was always going to be illicit and sexual.

So yeah, thinking of it that way, a distinction should possibly be made.

I hadn't even thought of that sort of scenario.......that's a good perspective. How many times have we heard that because of the empty words (I'm going to leave my wife.....it's really you I love....I just need to wait for X or Y...or Z..) so, the woman does have different opinion about the relationship.....ignoring the reality of what it is.

I thought of something else....we have a list of 7 deadly sins....and lust is listed there. In that context, (deadly sins), it obviously isn't a "good desire".

 

[Conservativation]

Well, lets hope your husbands dont ever have a lustful thought about you. id hate to see them cast in a lake of fire, better to you know, cut off the offending part

 

[Romanseight2005]

It comes down to this. We can be carnal, but this is extremely short-lived. If we are going to grow in intimacy rather than diminish, it needs to be more.

How many of you have given thought to your sex lives after your 60's? I am talking about the kind of sex that gets better with time, and age, not worse, or less frequent.

 

[Created2Write]

The reason I feel it's important to make the distinction, is so that mostly in our minds, we can separate the two. Of course, you can name it whatever you want....but, when you say you "lust" for your husband.....and he "lusts" for you.....but, then say there is love behind it.....it isn't just about sexual gratification. There is nothing wrong about it.....you are both desiring the same thing. It's a mutual expression of love between the two of you.

I don't think I posted it in this thread.....but, in the other thread, I had said that when lust doesn't get it's way.....it quickly turns to contempt....resentment...and sometimes even acts out. That is obviously not loving.

The lines between sin and goodness are getting so blurred today. What is good is being twisted into bad...and vice versa.....I just think the best way to keep things straight, in our own minds, is to have a clear distinction between the two....and to not use the same term for something destructive as we use for something that is a beautiful gift that glorifies God.

The problem with that, imo, is that there are things that are only bad depending on the situation. Sex, for instance. Outside of marriage, sex is wrong. It is to be fought against, it is to be rejected. But within marriage it is to be embraced, it is encouraged. It is beautiful. We don't use different terms for the difference scenarios. We simply call it "sex." We also agree that one can have sex without love, but can also have sex with love. Why can't lust be good within marriage, and bad outside of it?

 

[Created2Write]

Another version



Whatever you want to call it, the Bible calls greed (lust) coveteousness (lust)...sexual immorality (lust)....ALL to have NO place in the lives of Christians (including marriage). There is a very strong warning there, that shouldn't be ignored. Thankfully, as far as I know....no one sees greed as a good thing. So far, I think most agree that greed is an intense and selfish desire for something.

...So you're implying that someone who has accepted lust between their spouse and them is sinning? I think this is a dangerous judgment to make. No one has said lust is something you need to accept in your marriage, so please don't condemn others who are comfortable in their sex lives just because it's a word you disagree with.

I doubt you and I even believe lust to be the same thing. I define lust as an incredibly intense sexual desire. Every Greek and Hebrew definition I have seen defines it that way, every English definition I have seen defines it that way. In this thread I haven't even seen lust defined as anything other than selfishness. And, yes, lust CAN be selfish. Lust for money(greed) is selfish. Lust for power is selfish. Lust for fame is selfish. I don't, however, believe lusting after one's spouse(notice I didn't say lusting after sex, I said lusting after one's spouse) is automatically a selfish thing. I think it CAN be under certain circumstances, but I also believe it can be liberating.

No one ever told me that feeling intense sexual cravings for my husband was a good thing. I used to deal with condemnation for enjoying sex with him. I have since seen that sex between husband and wife is beautiful, and I am free to desire him, all of him, in many different ways. I'm grateful to have this freedom.

And, since none of the verses you have posted have talked about lust being off limits between a husband and wife, I'm not in any fear of being sinful. In fact, the images I've read in SoS, the love described, the sexual passion, sounds incredibly lustful and loving to me. I think my husband and I are in good company.

If lust is something you're not comfortable with, then that's your right. Not all couples are comfortable with oral sex. No couple should have to conform to what other people/couples believe to be right. It's up to the individual husband and wife to mutually decide on what is acceptable in their marriage. Lust, I know, is not widely accepted as a good thing in Christian marriages. Which is why I haven't said other people need to embrace it. But I don't appreciate the implication that my husband and I are going against the word of God by accepting something that other humans can't/don't accept. I'm not judging you. Don't judge me.

 

[Lilymay]

This is not correct, when i say lust...I MEAN something, I am using it in the way I mean it. Don't give me secular dictionary and good and bad. The condition of my heart and mind as I use the word is far more important than the word itself, or else we are in huge trouble.

I cant even believe you would say such a thing, so obsessed you are with squashing this WORD.....you dont even care what it means, you are going to prove that this word lust is bad no matter what. When did we get to the point where words in English are what determines out spiritual condition instead of our hearts?

What is your mission here, to bash a word, or to bash a concept. Its quite reasonable to bash the concept you are bashing, that i can accept, but this fixation that if one uses this particular word its whats predicted in the end times about bad and good swapping is HIGHLY presumptuous

I agree with this. There are many words that have negative and/or positive connotations to them.

 

[Created2Write]

I agree with this. There are many words that have negative and/or positive connotations to them.

 

[Athene]

This is not correct, when i say lust...I MEAN something, I am using it in the way I mean it. Don't give me secular dictionary and good and bad. The condition of my heart and mind as I use the word is far more important than the word itself, or else we are in huge trouble.

I cant even believe you would say such a thing, so obsessed you are with squashing this WORD.....you dont even care what it means, you are going to prove that this word lust is bad no matter what. When did we get to the point where words in English are what determines out spiritual condition instead of our hearts?

What is your mission here, to bash a word, or to bash a concept. Its quite reasonable to bash the concept you are bashing, that i can accept, but this fixation that if one uses this particular word its whats predicted in the end times about bad and good swapping is HIGHLY presumptuous

You do make a valid point.

When I was little, my mother would sometimes call my siblings and I ''you rotten little something that rhymes with sugar and starts with a b'. To us it meant we'd done something a bit cheeky but not too cheeky and she was amused by it, but to others it would have been awful - a mother swearing at her children.

 

[Conservativation]

You do make a valid point.

When I was little, my mother would sometimes call my siblings and I ''you rotten little something that rhymes with sugar and starts with a b'. To us it meant we'd done something a bit cheeky but not too cheeky and she was amused by it, but to others it would have been awful - a mother swearing at her children.

Well thats a geo-specific swear, if she'd have done that here it would be about nose droppings, remember we don"t tell folks to uh....sugar off around here.

 

[mkgal1]

This is not correct, when i say lust...I MEAN something, I am using it in the way I mean it.

Things dont get to mean the meaning that gets you the feelings you want. They mean what they mean, independent of your feelings.

 

[Conservativation]

Things dont get to mean the meaning that gets you the feelings you want. They mean what they mean, independent of your feelings.

EXACTLY!

Its not about my feelings at all. Its about the definition of the word lust.

Goodness MK, its pure unabridged emotion that taken you from reading clearly what something means in current english lexicon, and then taking some prophetic scripture about evil and good and using that to say that the definition isnt correct.

Now which approach is the more rational? I will take mine thank you, using the word as it is intended by me, PER its definition.

This is the most self contradictory thing I think you have ever said.

 

[Created2Write]

Things dont get to mean the meaning that gets you the feelings you want. They mean what they mean, independent of your feelings.

Exactly. So how do we define the meaning of lust? The only actual "definition" of lust in the Bible is that, when directed towards a person we are not married to, is emotional adultery. (Adultery in the heart) But for an actual definition of what it means, what it IS, where do we look? The dictionary. The original Greek text.

Cambridge Online Dictionary defines lust as:

" a very strong sexual desire"

Merriam-Webster Dictionary Online defines lust as:

1 a : pleasure, delight b : personal inclination : wish
2 : usu. intense or unbridled sexual desire : lasciviousness

3 a : an intense longing : craving <a lust to succeed>

Dictionary.com also defines lust as:

–noun 1. intense sexual desire or appetite.
2. uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.
3. a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually followed by for ): a lust for power.

One Greek word for "lust" is epithumia. It's used in Luke 22:25 when Jesus says, "Then He said to them, "With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;" It means, "desire, craving, longing, desire for what is forbidden, lust."

Another is epithumeo. It's used in Matt 5:28 when Jesus said, " 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." It means,

1. to turn upon a thing
2. to have a desire for, long for, to desire
3. to lust after, covet
   1. of those who seek things forbidden

Another is epipotheo. It's used in Romans 1:11, "For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established ;" It means,

1. to long for, desire
2. to pursue with love, to long after
3. to lust, harbour forbidden desire

Moreover, an Epithumete is "one who longs for, a craver, lover, one eager for."


So, "lust" in and of itself, according to more than one English dictionary, and more than one Greek word, is an "intense longing/desire". Not automatically bad, but not automatically good either. Depending on the circumstance, it can be incredibly good(like the definition which meant "to pursue with love") or it can be incredibly bad(like the definition which meant "to desire things that are forbidden.) One had the definition "covet", which is selfishness. Others were merely desires, which are neither wrong nor right, good or bad.

 

[McScribe]

And let's face it, then lust for ones wife is good if the desire is generally mutual. Respect is an entirely different matter. Our feelings are important but they need to take a back seat to making wise and good decisions. So the fact that say a guy lusts for his wife is in and of itself not bad. It's only bad if it is not taking into account her physical pleasure or feelings.

 

[Created2Write]

And let's face it, then lust for ones wife is good if the desire is generally mutual. Respect is an entirely different matter. Our feelings are important but they need to take a back seat to making wise and good decisions. So the fact that say a guy lusts for his wife is in and of itself not bad. It's only bad if it is not taking into account her physical pleasure or feelings.

Exactly. Same as how sexual passion isn't wrong, unless it's directed outside of the marriage, or focused on the wrong things inside of the marriage. Or how doing things for your spouse isn't wrong, unless it's only to get what you want in return. Circumstances alter whether certain things that aren't consistently sinful are good or bad. Adultery, we know, is always sinful. Porn use, we know, is always sinful. Abuse, selfishness, stealing, coveting, idolatry, fornication, gluttony, etc. Those things are always wrong, and there is never a situation in which they will cease to be sinful. Patience, love, joy, peace, kindness, forgiveness, selflessness, gentleness, self-control, etc. are all things that are always good. They will never be bad or wrong. Sexual passion, desire, lust, drinking alcohol, certain sexual acts, monetary wealth/desiring money, spending money, ambition, confidence, sarcasm, etc. Things like those are not always wrong, nor are they always good. Circumstances will determine whether those things are good or bad.

Yes, feelings, respect, mutuality are incredibly important. And, if a person isn't comfortable using the word lust in their marriage in a positive way, based on personal experience, or even just the thoughts/feelings associated with the word, there's nothing wrong with that. But those who are comfortable with it, as long as remains between the husband and wife and no one else...I don't see how it's wrong, or a misrepresentation of God's word. Especially considering it's really only defined as "a strong desire" in the Bible.