Lust VS Passion

[mkgal1]

I realize that there have been several discussions about this before....but, let's try again.

Using most dictionaries, the distinction isn't really made....both are defined pretty equally.

Here is what I consider a good article about the topic (it doesn't even appear to be from a Christian source).......

Because a relationship based on lust is temporary, both partners will eventually start looking for other people to satisfy their needs. Lustful relationship could be fulfilling for a short time but they are disastrous in the long run. There are fights to no end, arguments over nothing and no respect for each other. Another noticeable difference between a loving relationship and a lustful relationship is that the latter starts with a much more passion. There are phone calls and dates that last all day long and in the beginning it seems as if there's nothing separating this couple. However, as time passes this passion dies down and their supposed love for each other gets forgotten and they start having fights and eventually break up.
People who are truly in love base their relationships on respect for each other, compromising behavior and selfless attitude. They are ready to sacrifice anything for their partner. Lustful relationship brings two people close only to have fun and both of them are selfish in their demands. They don't have any respect for their partner and don't have any commitment plans in their minds.


Article Source: How To Tell The Difference Between Love And Lust

 

[Conservativation]

This article presumes too much, lust and love are not mutually exclusive, that alone kills the premise. best to have them both, then you REALLY have something special.

This obsession with making sexual desire something bad, I'm not sure where this comes from. Its not from prudish or Victorian type teachings, its not as simple as the old "sex is dirty" teachings, its something else, something new-ish.

I have an opinion, that this stuff has grown with the advent of internet pornography, that some people are so hurt or just so angry or resentful of it that its not enough to come against the porn and porn users, you need to come against the physical aspect of sex itself, making married men who are 100% faithful and in love with theor wives, making even them come under scrutiny.

Its sad

 

[iambren]

Lust seems to be strong sexual desire without love. Knowing someone creates a bond and a weaker ability to objectify them via lust.

Christians (especially the young) have a hard time accepting that God created strong sexual feelings. We are created sexual before and after marriage. This is why a spouse may be attracted to someone else and that's not a sin; it's when thoughts/actions are cultured without a love for all parties does it become sin.

 

[WolfGate]

mkgal1 - I know I diverted McScribes thread by my parethetical post on the definition of "lust". Honestly, in any conversation, I don't care how people define it - as long as they both are clear on the definition they're using. I've seen people argue about lust for 10 minutes, and then once they worked their way down into the definition of what they meant, realized they believed the same thing, but simply were arguing different meanings of the word.

You are right, my definitions came from a secular dictionary. That doesn't invalidate the definitions, because people will speak meaning the one they're thinking, regardless of where it came from.

My only point on that other thread was to be clear how you defined the word, or we risked a semantic debate with people arguing the same point to each other. We all know that is one loaded word...

 

[dallasapple]

I dont use the word "lust" usually when Im talking about a "good" thing.

Passion however I do..for some reason..I see passion as overall "good when I say it..not lust though ..even though technically if you simply mean" intense sexual desire" and its within marriage and all else is "good" ..then lust is not a "bad thing"..I just dont see a reason to use that word though."Passion" is more befitting and its a "prettier" word..

Dallas

 

[mkgal1]

This article presumes too much, lust and love are not mutually exclusive, that alone kills the premise. best to have them both, then you REALLY have something special.

This obsession with making sexual desire something bad, I'm not sure where this comes from. Its not from prudish or Victorian type teachings, its not as simple as the old "sex is dirty" teachings, its something else, something new-ish.

No....sexual desire is NOT something bad....that is the trouble with lumping them together. Selfishness and lust are what's bad. That is why a distinction needs to be made between the two.

 

[Romanseight2005]

That's because passion involves immense feelings. They can be immense feelings of love, or giving, where as lust is generally all about a selfish desire to take. God calls us to be passionate. In fact, if we are not passionate towards Him, he will spit us out. I don't recall the scriptures telling us to lust after God, you know?

 

[dallasapple]

That's because passion involves immense feelings. They can be immense feelings of love, or giving, where as lust is generally all about a selfish desire to take. God calls us to be passionate. In fact, if we are not passionate towards Him, he will spit us out. I don't recall the scriptures telling us to lust after God, you know?

yeah..that too! (thats what i really meant to say )

Dallas

 

[Romanseight2005]

Oh and Cons, if you are describing sexual desire as something only physical, then it is wrong. Think about it. The physical part of is is the part of us that did not get redeemed. Our bodies are dying, and it is only the inner person of the heart that is being renewed. So, if we are going to separate the spirit and the soul from the body, and only use our bodies during sex, then we are uniting in death, and not in any kind of intimacy.

Furthermore, Proverbs 5 describes old people being sexually passionate for one another after many years. How does this happen if sex is all about the physical? How will it be that your 85 year old wife's breasts satisfy you, or intoxicate you, as the scripture states?

 

[Created2Write]

Honestly, I don't think lust within a marriage is bad. And maybe some don't view the sexual passion within marriage as lust, but I know how strongly I desire my husband and "sexual passion" doesn't cover it.

If, for instance, a woman imagining a naked man she isn't married to, is lust, then wouldn't a wife imagining the naked body of her husband also be considered lust? They're not even necessarily different, just that one is not within marriage and, therefore, sin. Same as how sex itself is not necessarily bad, just that without the bond of marriage it is sin. Lust, imo, is also not necessarily bad, just that without the bond of marriage, it is sin.

Maybe others call it something different, but that's how I see it.

 

[dallasapple]

[QUOTE)I know how strongly I desire my husband and "sexual passion" doesn't cover it. )

But that word "passion" can have levels..Im not saying you shoudlnt use the word 'lust"...but for me its better than lust..to say /(or lets say feel)..strong passion..than to feel "lust"..or even 'wildy passionate"..I choose "passion" over lust any day of the week..But again..that would be me...

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

How will it be that your 85 year old wife's breasts satisfy you, or intoxicate you, as the scripture states?

Well ....if the husband is a perverted horny old man then you never know.

 

[Created2Write]

I guess I see lust and passion as the same thing. "Passion" for someone we're not married to is sin, right? In fact many would even call that lust. I see lust as an intense desire, a burning, wild passion. But that could just be me. My husband tells me often, "I'm lusting after you" in a text or something throughout the day and it makes me smile to know that I'm not just thought of as the wife who greets him when he gets home. To know he is sexually drawn to me in an almost uncontrollable way is flattering, especially in our society that flashes boobs and butts in movies for no real reason except to arouse.

And, as for lust being selfish; I suppose that could be a defining factor, but then, so is passion and arousal when you think about it. I am very selfish of my husbands sexual thoughts and desires. I want them to be about me and only me. I want his fantasies to be experienced with me and only me. And likewise him for me. The difference between sinful lust and beautiful lust is, imo, the actual relationship itself. I love my husband. I'd die for him, I'd give up my dreams for him. And likewise him for me, so it's obvious in that instance that our lust isn't based on ONLY the physical. There's a love, a friendship that was established in the dating phase that, now, is the foundation of our marriage. Hence, the lust(while mostly physical) is based on love.

In a marriage where there isn't that foundation, lust may not be so innocent and pure. And, of course, outside of marriage it is always a sin.

 

[dallasapple]

I guess passion ISNT sinful with someone else besides your husband if its not SEXUAL passion..

So you can have a "passionate" relationship with your husband as in I am passionate about HIM (in all ways) including sexual passsion ..So passion towards him would encompass all of it...If you are referring to sexually..then you could say that..I feel "extreme sexual passion" for my husband..(WAY better than lust..)

I think of passion as in "with all my heart" or with "all my being"..If its sexual well then there ya go!

Dallas

 

[Created2Write]

True, passion doesn't only encompass sex. That's a good point. And, for myself, "strong sexual passion" IS lust. According to any dictionary I have seen, that's what lust has been described as, so I use "lust" Not that everyone has to, it's just how my husband and I view it. So, for us, "sexual passion" isn't better than lust, cause for is it IS lust.

 

[Conservativation]

Oh and Cons, if you are describing sexual desire as something only physical, then it is wrong. Think about it. The physical part of is is the part of us that did not get redeemed. Our bodies are dying, and it is only the inner person of the heart that is being renewed. So, if we are going to separate the spirit and the soul from the body, and only use our bodies during sex, then we are uniting in death, and not in any kind of intimacy.

Furthermore, Proverbs 5 describes old people being sexually passionate for one another after many years. How does this happen if sex is all about the physical? How will it be that your 85 year old wife's breasts satisfy you, or intoxicate you, as the scripture states?

Im wasting my time

You made up the word ONLY....this is the only way the half the nonsese that gets wriien here can even be read coherently, because you make things up, then rebuke them.

To me this is as bad as goading and flaming, its a form of lying and manipulation and sneaky word games. Of course i will get warned because I react to it, but its got to STOP! How can you look yourself in the face and feel good about writing that garbage?

 

[mkgal1]

And, as for lust being selfish; I suppose that could be a defining factor, but then, so is passion and arousal when you think about it. I am very selfish of my husbands sexual thoughts and desires. I want them to be about me and only me. I want his fantasies to be experienced with me and only me. And likewise him for me.

That isn't what I meant by selfish. When I said "selfish", I meant not thinking of the other person (your spouse)---ONLY thinking of what you want. What you are describing is being posessive.....jealous....which is good. We are supposed to have jealousy (not in an irrational way).... and are to expect that our spouse only has sexual thoughts of us. God is a jealous God....we seem to only have a negative opinion of jealousy.

An example of lust...and the selfishness behind it, would be a woman making gestures that indicate she would like to have sex. Her husband had worked extremely long hours out in the sun......physical work, and is tired....and has to get up early the next day. He wants to sleep. Instead of being thoughtful and compassionate for his need to sleep (love is patient, love is kind....it isn't self-seeking...it's not rude) ........she leaves the room.....slamming the door...and making lots of noise to make it known that she is upset. A person wouldn't go from wanting to express their love to their spouse to a tirade. It was selfish ambition that was sought in the first place.....not considering the other person's needs and situation. One cannot be selfish and loving all at the same time. It has to be one or the other.

 

[Romanseight2005]

Tell me Cons, how is this not an attempt to separate the physical part of sex, from the spiritual and emotional aspects? You seem to be saying that all other aspects take place BEFORE the sex act, but aren't really a part of the actual act, at all.

Originally Posted by Conservativation

All of you are over complicating what I'm saying.

From INSIDE the act of sex....the couple is having sex.....that virtue in the man is important to the women is great.....but NOW....they are having SEX, meaning she has already said cool virtue he has it, I love him....now lets have sex.....NOW....draw the line and from INSIDE that line, the virtue and the attraction its all been deemed good, they both have passed muster...they are now, virtue and all, having sex.....NOW it IS silly to talk about virtue because its already been dealt with...its already done its thing so to speak.

You are badly over complicating what Im saying.

Im picturing "squeeze my virtue harder" or something, thats why Im saying its silly. The virtue etc etc etc have done their job, and facilitated that they are now having sex...remember we are talking about SoS here, so for the one who now wants to come at me with "well not everyone having sex is having it with someone they are happy about the virtues of"......

in Sos.....the virtues may facilitate the willingness to have the sex. Along with a huge host of things.

Think about it this way...i could make a big deal out of cleanliness. We dont want to have sex with someone who hasnt bathed oin weeks and has grease in their hair an d rotted teeth. SO......therefore is cleanliness literally a PART of the sex? NO. Its a part of the willingness to HAVE sex.


Now you seem to be back pedaling, because you don't like the truth of what your perspective really is implying.

I showed you why I believe that looking at sex (during the act) as something merely physical, or if you would rather, mainly physical, or whatever, is not a productive way to see it. If one is to see it that way, they are dealing with the law of diminishing return. Our bodies are aging, even dying. They are not redeemed. If sex is thought of in terms of being there for visual beauty, then how you see visual beauty needs to change, according with the changes your spouse goes through, otherwise, as you both get closer to death, the visual parts will not be stimulating.

So how does this happen? How does one see his/her spouse as visually stimulating, as the physical body heads toward death? There can be no other way, then for there to be other significant components in your thinking about your spouse sexually, as in who they are totally, mind, body,soul, and spirit.

​

 

[dallasapple]

I think the point is ..its a PERSON a whole person that you are having sex with..its not just the physical act of sex(the body parts)..its a relational experience with that person that you KNOW ...Of course while you are having sex thats what you are doing..having sex Duh..you arent cleaning a toilet bowl or anything...but its connecting at a deeper level than just connecting the body parts because of the fact its THAT persons virtues that draw you in the first place to want to get that close.

Trying to "separate them" or somehow isolate it to the act of sex is whats going on I dont understand why anyone would be so hell bent on making it that..of course you arent litterally havign sex with "virtues"..but its that PERSONS whole body and MIND you are makign a connection with during sex..

My name is Lana..and when my husband and I have sex he isnt making love to the word "lana" or the original meaning of my name in greek or latin.. ..no DUH..its ME..and not just my body..its my mind and emotions that are being touched..he KNOWS me he knows who I am..its the whole me..the sex "act' isnt isolated from ME..

Dallas

 

[Created2Write]

That isn't what I meant by selfish.....when I said "selfish", I meant not thinking of the other person (your spouse)---ONLY thinking of what you want. What you are describing is being posessive.....jealous....which is good, we are supposed to have jealousy (not in an irrational way)....but, are to expect our spouse only has sexual thoughts of us. God is a jealous God....we seem to only have a negative opinion of jealousy.

I knew what you meant, and I knew what I was saying wasn't how you meant "selfish". I just couldn't think of how to word what I was really trying to say, so I said something else. lol.

I agree to an extent that lust is selfish. When I lust after my husband, it is entirely because he pleases me sexually. I lust after him because I want to be sexually satisfied. Likewise, he lusts after me because I please him sexually. However, the key factor imo is that our lust is based on love, so it's not just physical gratification, like a one night stand. We are united in marriage, in love, in friendship, so for us the lust can be selfish like that without being a negative addition to our marriage.

And it's not JUST lust that we feel, either. We feel many different things for each other, lust just happens to be one of them.

An example of lust...and the selfishness behind it, would be a woman making gestures that indicate she would like to have sex. Her husband had worked extremely long hours out in the sun......physical work, and is tired....and has to get up early the next day. He wants to sleep. Instead of being thoughtful and compassionate for his need for sleep.....she leaves the room.....slamming the door...and makes noise to make it known that she is upset. A person wouldn't go from wanting to express their love to their spouse to a tirade. It was selfish ambition that was sought in the first place.....not considering the other person's needs and situation.

I agree that this is selfish, and I agree that love would not be driving this woman to sex. Lust/desire for nothing more than physical gratification would be. Not all lust is good, as we know from scripture. But we also know we aren't to burn with passion; "burning with passion" is, imo, lust. And that Scripture says it is better to marry than to burn with passion. So, in a situation where there is love driving the couple, lust can be a strengthening bond, imo.