Luke 13:3 being ripped out of context to teach Repent Of Your Sins

[tdidymas]

I can't define anti..., so can't respond.

antinomianism by definition is advocating sin. It means against law. So, yes/no question: do you think I am teaching against the law of God?

 

[Hoping2]

antinomianism by definition is advocating sin. It means against law. So, yes/no question: do you think I am teaching against the law of God?

My first inclination is to say no, but without rereading all of your posts I will refrain from answering.
If you beleive you can live without sinning, my answer will be "NO" you don't advocate sin.

 

[tdidymas]

My first inclination is to say no, but without rereading all of your posts I will refrain from answering.
If you beleive you can live without sinning, my answer will be "NO" you don't advocate sin.

Then why do you seem to assume that I do? Let me quote what you said, in response to me saying to DL that the idea of sinless perfection for a believer in Jesus is a ludicrous idea:

"It isn't a ludicrous idea if you read 1 John 3:9.
Just as fig seeds cannot bring forth grapes, neither can God's seed bring forth liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers."

Firstly:
When I say that Christians are "sinners," what you read into it is that they are liars, thieves, adulterers, and murderers. Yet I made it clear previously that I was talking about spiritual immaturity and the inclination to commit sins not leading to death (1 John 5:14-16). But you keep on using this kind of exaggerative language without any restraint. This is why I told you before that you are bearing false witness against your neighbor. You're no different than Trump and Harris accusing each other using exaggerative language. If you can claim that either one of them, using exaggeration or propagating a rumor about the other is lying, then you, doing the same thing here, are lying yourself.

If you claim that by my saying that sinless perfection is a ludicrous idea, that I am saying true believers can be liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers and continue therein (as you have also exaggerated previously), then there is something wrong in your responses. It's called "cognitive dissonance" because you are contradicting yourself. One time you claim I am talking about liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers being believers, and another time you claim I'm not advocating sin. This is an obvious contradiction.

Unless, of course, you are now claiming that I'm not a believer. Most certainly I do not believe that anyone, including yourself, is sinless. Perhaps in this moment you could claim that you're not sinning. But given certain circumstances, adversities, confrontations, hostilities, situations, or whatever you call it, when the stress of it is coming on you like a ton of bricks, I have serious doubts about your claims. And even if you claim you are sinless in this moment, I have serious doubts about your claim.

Secondly:
Your citing 1 John 3:9 is taken out of context and misrepresented. That verse means "continue sinning" (if you examine the Greek tense), which means true believers can commit sin, but they then repent. It's not about being in a sinless condition, but it's rather about the direction of one's life. But of course, you don't believe this, because you can't abandon your pet doctrine, because you're too proud (or deceived) to think you could be wrong.

 

[Hoping2]

Then why do you seem to assume that I do? Let me quote what you said, in response to me saying to DL that the idea of sinless perfection for a believer in Jesus is a ludicrous idea:

"It isn't a ludicrous idea if you read 1 John 3:9.
Just as fig seeds cannot bring forth grapes, neither can God's seed bring forth liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers."

Firstly:
When I say that Christians are "sinners," what you read into it is that they are liars, thieves, adulterers, and murderers. Yet I made it clear previously that I was talking about spiritual immaturity and the inclination to commit sins not leading to death (1 John 5:14-16).

If a man sins. big time or small time, the penalty is the same...second death.
One sins manifests a lack of real repentance from sin and possession of the Holy Ghost.
And a need still for rebirth from God's seed.
Jesus died and was raised so we could live without sin.
A false repentance makes that death pointless.

But you keep on using this kind of exaggerative language without any restraint.

Would you prefer I say...Took a pencil from work, or, Cut someone off on the freeway ?

This is why I told you before that you are bearing false witness against your neighbor.

I am not bearing anything against anyone !
Just general comments.

If you claim that by my saying that sinless perfection is a ludicrous idea, that I am saying true believers can be liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers and continue therein (as you have also exaggerated previously), then there is something wrong in your responses.

Are you not saying just that ?
If men don't stop sinning, is sin is off the table ?

It's called "cognitive dissonance" because you are contradicting yourself. One time you claim I am talking about liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers being believers, and another time you claim I'm not advocating sin. This is an obvious contradiction.

Perhaps you can state which position you are on, before we proceed aby further.

Unless, of course, you are now claiming that I'm not a believer. Most certainly I do not believe that anyone, including yourself, is sinless. Perhaps in this moment you could claim that you're not sinning. But given certain circumstances, adversities, confrontations, hostilities, situations, or whatever you call it, when the stress of it is coming on you like a ton of bricks, I have serious doubts about your claims. And even if you claim you are sinless in this moment, I have serious doubts about your claim.

I will depend on God's word being true, specifically 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
If that is true, the escapes from temptation will always be evident.

Secondly:
Your citing 1 John 3:9 is taken out of context and misrepresented. That verse means "continue sinning" (if you examine the Greek tense), which means true believers can commit sin, but they then repent. It's not about being in a sinless condition, but it's rather about the direction of one's life. But of course, you don't believe this, because you can't abandon your pet doctrine, because you're too proud (or deceived) to think you could be wrong.

The word "continuing", and some use "practicing", both refute the meaning of the verse.
Can a fig tree ever bring forth grapes ? NO.
Neither can God's seed ever bring forth liars, thieves, murderers, or pick-pockets.

We really need to take this private, as I am informed that the rules prohibit this topic.

 

[LW97Nils]

We turn of our sins because we are born again, not to get born again.

 

[David Lamb]

We turn of our sins because we are born again, not to get born again.

What does "We turn out of our sins" mean, please? "Stop sinning, perhaps? Thanks.

 

[LW97Nils]

What does "We turn out of our sins" mean, please? "Stop sinning, perhaps? Thanks.

Yes, we do stop sinning. Doesn't eman we are incapable of sinning

 

[MaxPower]

Yes, we do stop sinning. Doesn't eman we are incapable of sinning

If you say you are capable of sinning you identify as a sinner and are boasting about your sin, so the question to you is how you think you can stop sinning?

 

[David Lamb]

Yes, we do stop sinning. Doesn't eman we are incapable of sinning

Do you mean that Christians are sinless in this life?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

There is almost a guarantee that we actually "sin even more" after salvation.

Paul said we are no better than any sinner because "all" are under sin. Romans 3:9
Paul himself claimed that he was, using the present tense "I am" the chief of sinners after salvation, 1 Tim. 1:15

HOW is it then we can actually become worse?

Let's get the enemy in the picture and then it becomes obvious as to HOW. We engage the Word, the scriptures. AND so does our enemy, our adversary, the devil:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Temptations, lusts of various sorts, evil thoughts, <---ALL of these things come from within. Who else is within to cause this issue? Temptations, lusts and evil thoughts are not materially dangling outside of us. These are internal matters and they are of and from OUR ADVERSARY

Get the adversary in the picture and deal with the fact. Those who do so will instantly see the utter foolishness of claiming any forms of sinlessness and will also instantly turn to the Grace and Mercy of our Lord, knowing what/WHO we look forward to being delivered FROM

This notion that none of us have to engage temptations, lusts, evil thoughts internally and it does not cause defiling are simply not listening to JESUS. These are people who have been turned into claimers of the Word, yet DENIERS of that same Word, always seeking to justify the entirety of themselves when the fact is that will not and can not happen until our ADVERSARY is totally taken away out of our PICTURE and that has not yet happened to anyone in this present life:

Mark 7:
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Can it be any clearer?

"from within, out of the heart-proceed evil thoughts-these evil things come from within, and defile"

This is not optional ^^^

 

[tdidymas]

There is almost a guarantee that we actually "sin even more" after salvation.

No, this is not true. Firstly, I am NOT a "sinless" advocate. Nevertheless, it appears to me that you aren't taking into account the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God dwelling in the heart casts out the evil one, per the answer to the Lord's Prayer. 1 Jn. 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and to CLEANS US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS."

Therefore, the notion that we sin even more after salvation is nonsense. Our conscience is awakened, and we become more aware of sin we commit, but the idea includes repentance. A saved person has a continual attitude of repentance from sin, because they treasure the peace of God in their heart.

Paul said we are no better than any sinner because "all" are under sin. Romans 3:9
Paul himself claimed that he was, using the present tense "I am" the chief of sinners after salvation, 1 Tim. 1:15

No, he wasn't talking about his present condition, but his past. 1 Cor. 15:9 - because he persecuted the church. So he is referring to his condition before his conversion. Most certainly Rom. 8:13 is a description of how he was living, since he never taught anyone to do what he himself wasn't already doing himself, or at least willing to do - 1 Cor. 9:27 (he practiced what he preached)

HOW is it then we can actually become worse?

Let's get the enemy in the picture and then it becomes obvious as to HOW. We engage the Word, the scriptures. AND so does our enemy, our adversary, the devil:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Temptations, lusts of various sorts, evil thoughts, <---ALL of these things come from within. Who else is within to cause this issue? Temptations, lusts and evil thoughts are not materially dangling outside of us. These are internal matters and they are of and from OUR ADVERSARY

Get the adversary in the picture and deal with the fact. Those who do so will instantly see the utter foolishness of claiming any forms of sinlessness and will also instantly turn to the Grace and Mercy of our Lord, knowing what/WHO we look forward to being delivered FROM

This notion that none of us have to engage temptations, lusts, evil thoughts internally and it does not cause defiling are simply not listening to JESUS. These are people who have been turned into claimers of the Word, yet DENIERS of that same Word, always seeking to justify the entirety of themselves when the fact is that will not and can not happen until our ADVERSARY is totally taken away out of our PICTURE and that has not yet happened to anyone in this present life:

Mark 7:
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Can it be any clearer?

"from within, out of the heart-proceed evil thoughts-these evil things come from within, and defile"

This is not optional ^^^

Jesus came to destroy the work of the devil - 1 Jn. 3:8. Therefore, He accomplishes the driving out of the evil one - 1 Jn. 5:18.
Deu. 30:6 - we who belong to Christ are circumcised of heart. Gal. 5:24

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

No, this is not true. Firstly, I am NOT a "sinless" advocate. Nevertheless, it appears to me that you aren't taking into account the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit.

IF you are claiming we don't come under "more attacks" because of our insights into this subject I'd simply refer you to Paul's own claim in 2 Cor. 12:7, that just to remind him of the fact a "messenger of Satan" was put upon his flesh.

Paul also said temptation was in his flesh, Gal. 4:14

And no matter how hard he prayed, it didn't go away.

I'm actually quite happy Paul was honest about it.

The Spirit of God dwelling in the heart casts out the evil one, per the answer to the Lord's Prayer. 1 Jn. 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and to CLEANS US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS."

The principle involved here is this: We don't count sins against people, 2 Cor. 5:19

But we DO, CAN and SHOULD by all means count them against the devils.

It's not a one sided story

Therefore, the notion that we sin even more after salvation is nonsense.

I provided the scripture for it. You're welcome to enjoy it: 1 Tim. 1:15 wherein Paul describes himself as the present tense, "I am" the chief of sinners. Not used to be or was, but "I am."

And I'd suggest it was not just Paul in that picture, but the tempter also. That's the only reasonable way this can be seen.

Our conscience is awakened, and we become more aware of sin we commit, but the idea includes repentance. A saved person has a continual attitude of repentance from sin, because they treasure the peace of God in their heart.

You basically have a typical account that is void of the "other parties" to these matters, the devil and his messengers.

Why do you write them out of the picture when scriptures do not is the real question.

No, he wasn't talking about his present condition, but his past. 1 Cor. 15:9 - because he persecuted the church. So he is referring to his condition before his conversion.

Oh no that wasn't the case at all. Paul clearly defined that he both did, not used to do evil, in Romans 7:19, but that he also had evil present with him, Romans 7:21 and that his flesh still served "the law of sin," in Romans 7:25, exactly none of which were "past tense" presentations.

Most certainly Rom. 8:13 is a description of how he was living, since he never taught anyone to do what he himself wasn't already doing himself, or at least willing to do - 1 Cor. 9:27 (he practiced what he preached)

Jesus came to destroy the work of the devil - 1 Jn. 3:8. Therefore, He accomplishes the driving out of the evil one - 1 Jn. 5:18.
Deu. 30:6 - we who belong to Christ are circumcised of heart. Gal. 5:24

There is no therefore. We still have an active enemy who tempts, deceives, and destroys. Particularly destroying the ability to tell the truth of this matter

The instant any recognize that temptations transpire in 'mind' and that places the tempter "in mind" to do so, they stop pulling their own leg on the subject

 

[LW97Nils]

Do you mean that Christians are sinless in this life?

Didn't say that, but certainly STRIVE to be sinless. When we are sanctified, we are commanded to have our minds renewed (Romans 12:2).

 

[tdidymas]

IF you are claiming we don't come under "more attacks" because of our insights into this subject I'd simply refer you to Paul's own claim in 2 Cor. 12:7, that just to remind him of the fact a "messenger of Satan" was put upon his flesh.

You're reading into this passage something it doesn't say. "Thorn in the flesh" is a figure of speech meaning something happening that irritates him. It's NOT sin. The "messenger of Satan" is SOMEONE who attacks him with slanders and tries to destroy his godly work. This is implied in several of his epistles. Messengers of Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire - Mat. 25:41, Rev. 12:9.

Paul also said temptation was in his flesh, Gal. 4:14

No, read :13 - it was a trial TO THE GALATIANS, because of a SICKNESS in Paul's body at the time. You should not misrepresent scripture.

And no matter how hard he prayed, it didn't go away.

I'm actually quite happy Paul was honest about it.

The messenger of Satan was not sin coming from his own heart. It was an affliction coming from outside of him. Of course he was honest, since he boasted of his own weakness (to control his situation), so that the power of Christ would be revealed. His tolerance of the adversity was coming from the endurance that God provides, and not from his own willpower, this is how Christ is glorified.

The principle involved here is this: We don't count sins against people, 2 Cor. 5:19

The word of reconciliation is evangelistic in nature. Again, you take scripture out of context. 2 Cor. 5:19 means that God was in Christ during His ministry on Earth, reconciling the unregenerate world to Himself. Eph. 2:5 "while we were dead in trespasses and sins, God rich in mercy raised us up to life and seated us with Christ in the heavenlies" - means that God did not count our trespasses against us, but loved us beyond it, and freely gave us the gift of the Holy Spirit. Note the description - "Holy." This holiness is accounted to us at first when we are spiritual infants, and then the Holy Spirit sanctifies us, which takes away the power of sin. It's called spiritually maturing. It's not an allowance of practicing sin, which Paul makes clear in 1 Cor. 6:9-10. It is necessary for us not only to believe that Christ's work atones for our sins, but also we are to repent from our sins, trusting that God will help us do so - 1 Jn. 2:1.

But we DO, CAN and SHOULD by all means count them against the devils.

"The devil made me do it" is a poor excuse for lack of a repentant attitude.

It's not a one sided story

If you want to blame someone, blame Adam. But that doesn't accomplish the necessary dealing with our present condition. Since God will judge everyone according to their deeds (yes, even Christians), we must appeal to the power of the Spirit to overcome sinful habits - Rom. 8:13, Gal. 5:16, etc.

I provided the scripture for it. You're welcome to enjoy it: 1 Tim. 1:15 wherein Paul describes himself as the present tense, "I am" the chief of sinners. Not used to be or was, but "I am."

Again, you misrepresent Paul in this matter. Paul repented of his sins. He no longer persecuted the church. His epistles make it clear he was not committing sins leading to death. One does not have to wallow in the slime of the worst sins in order to identify with sinners. Jesus identified with us, and yet was without sin. He knew no sin, so says scripture. Peter wrote for us to walk in His steps. John wrote that we must walk in the same manner as He walked.

I don't know what your sin is, or why you seem to be advocating antinomianism. But so far your misrepresentation of scripture is showing that you have a problem you should consider dealing with.

And I'd suggest it was not just Paul in that picture, but the tempter also. That's the only reasonable way this can be seen.




You basically have a typical account that is void of the "other parties" to these matters, the devil and his messengers.

Why do you write them out of the picture when scriptures do not is the real question.

"Satan prowls about..." doesn't mean you aren't responsible for your sins. It doesn't mean you should just give in. No, every Christian is in a spiritual war, and we must trust the power of God and do whatever it takes (Eph. 6:10-18) to overcome - 1 John 2:15-17, 5:2-5.

Oh no that wasn't the case at all. Paul clearly defined that he both did, not used to do evil, in Romans 7:19, but that he also had evil present with him, Romans 7:21 and that his flesh still served "the law of sin," in Romans 7:25, exactly none of which were "past tense" presentations.

I disagree. Paul was referring to his past condition. Rom. 7 is not about serving sin in present actions, but about the deliverance that is in Christ (Rom. 8:2). The Spirit of God living in the born-again Christian sets one free from sinful habits, and clears our conscience (Heb. 9:14).

There is no therefore. We still have an active enemy who tempts, deceives, and destroys. Particularly destroying the ability to tell the truth of this matter

Are you admitting that the devil has control over you, and that you can't tell the truth of this matter? I'm beginning to believe you about that (i.e. concerning you). My advice to you is that you abandon your sinful idea and start asking the Lord to cleanse your heart. You need to do a lot more study in scripture to begin discerning where you are going wrong.

The instant any recognize that temptations transpire in 'mind' and that places the tempter "in mind" to do so, they stop pulling their own leg on the subject

Are you talking about being honest about the true condition of your soul? That certainly is a first step to repentance and faith.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

You're reading into this passage something it doesn't say. "Thorn in the flesh"

Oh, I'm fairly 1000% certain that it's exactly as stated, a "messenger of Satan"

You'd have to erase that to convince me it doesn't say what it clearly says

The "messenger of Satan" is SOMEONE who attacks him with slanders and tries to destroy his godly work. This is implied in several of his epistles. Messengers of Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire - Mat. 25:41, Rev. 12:9.

You'll have to excuse me but I can't help but laugh at that explanation, trying to blame some other guy.

Paul flat out says that sin dwells in his flesh in Romans 7:17-21, concluding that evil "is present" with him and that his flesh serves the law of sin, vs. 25. This ain't the problem of some other guy and if you think people are devils then we have other theological issues

So you might consider starting with a very basic fact that we do have an adversary, a tempter that tempts us internally. Paul even stated he had "temptation" in his flesh, Gal. 4:14

So the evidence on this matter is super abundant.

Some other guy? grinning

No, every Christian is in a spiritual war

Well, I'm glad you actually got that far. And, P.S. it's not some other guy. It's the tempter, the devil, our adversary

Are you admitting that the devil has control over you

The devil tempts in mind. Who are we trying to kid that it's "control?"

I can keep it in check, but it is in mind, beyond any doubt, that Satan tempts us all in mind. I also believe Satan steals Word from my heart, just as Jesus said happens in Mark 4:15. That's why we only see in part and as through a glass, darkly.

Do you deny this happens? Let me hear you deny ever being tempted in mind by THE TEMPTER. Let's start there.

 

[tdidymas]

Oh, I'm fairly 1000% certain that it's exactly as stated, a "messenger of Satan"

You'd have to erase that to convince me it doesn't say what it clearly says

You'll have to excuse me but I can't help but laugh at that explanation, trying to blame some other guy.

Paul flat out says that sin dwells in his flesh in Romans 7:17-21, concluding that evil "is present" with him and that his flesh serves the law of sin, vs. 25. This ain't the problem of some other guy and if you think people are devils then we have other theological issues

So you might consider starting with a very basic fact that we do have an adversary, a tempter that tempts us internally. Paul even stated he had "temptation" in his flesh, Gal. 4:14

So the evidence on this matter is super abundant.

Some other guy? grinning

Well, I'm glad you actually got that far. And, P.S. it's not some other guy. It's the tempter, the devil, our adversary

The devil tempts in mind. Who are we trying to kid that it's "control?"

I can keep it in check, but it is in mind, beyond any doubt, that Satan tempts us all in mind. I also believe Satan steals Word from my heart, just as Jesus said happens in Mark 4:15. That's why we only see in part and as through a glass, darkly.

Do you deny this happens? Let me hear you deny ever being tempted in mind by THE TEMPTER. Let's start there.

Since you persist in misrepresenting scripture, I'm done with you.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Since you persist in misrepresenting scripture, I'm done with you.

Well, you know full well that only means I don't see things like you.

Our difference is I can read and comprehend what someone else sees and delineate differences without getting frustrated. But my patience is limited as well.

If someone can't see we have an invisible enemy that we battle internally the conversations can never get far, and I think it's because of the adversary who doesn't care to have light shed on them

 

[tdidymas]

Well, you know full well that only means I don't see things like you.

Our difference is I can read and comprehend what someone else sees and delineate differences without getting frustrated. But my patience is limited as well.

If someone can't see we have an invisible enemy that we battle internally the conversations can never get far, and I think it's because of the adversary who doesn't care to have light shed on them

For a Christian, the devil does not reside within us. There can be demons that plant thoughts and images into our mind, but it is coming from the outside, because the Holy Spirit dwells in us. The Holy Spirit casts out the evil one, as 1 John 5:18 declares. Therefore, for Christians, our worst enemy is ourselves. There is still a propensity to be tempted in everything we once did as habit and practice. But Jesus is a healer. We can indeed be transformed by the renewing of our minds. I'm not so arrogant as to claim I'm sinless or have no issues. But as my faith has grown, most temptations I used to fall by are miniscule. Sure, I keep finding new ones that I have to battle and overcome by the power of the Spirit. We can overcome by faith, as John declared in 1 John 5:4.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

For a Christian, the devil does not reside within us.

Oh? So Satan stands in front of us, floats at our shoulder, whispering audibly?

We're tempted internally, in mind and heart.

Jesus defined evil as coming from within via evil thoughts. Mark 7:21-23

Paul said the same, that in his mind he had evil thoughts, and defined it as the sin that dwelt in his flesh, the evil present with him. Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:17-21

And we know defiling is sin. We know sin is of the devil, Mark 4:15, 1 John 3:8

We know that God Himself bound us to the spirit of disobedience. Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

We didn't know this condition prior to salvation. The only thing that changes after the fact is that we are aware that it is alien to ourselves, and we fight and resist it, in dominion. Not denial

You may finish your end by stating you are never tempted internally by the tempter and we can just leave it at that

 

[JulieB67]

Our difference is I can read and comprehend

No offense, but I'm seriously doubting this going by most of your posts.

We know that God Himself bound us to the spirit of disobedience. Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

This is a prime example of you not being able to comprehend the Bible as a whole.


Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all."

Of course God included everyone in his plan because he loves the entire world and wants everyone to come to repentance. We know that's why he's so long suffering. Will they? Sadly no. But we start from that unbelief to belief and once someone has truly repented, that true change of heart and mind occurs.

You act as if true repentant Christians are bound to Satan. But the next verses you posted prove otherwise-

II Corinthians 4:4 "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the image of God, should shine unto them,"

This verses goes without saying. Satan has blinded the minds of those that believe not.

Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

Key words being "in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of power of the air"

It's a really sad state that you think the devil is residing/abiding in you along with the Father/Christ as well. Yes, the flesh wars with the Spirit but that is not the devil residing in us. Is he at war with with our Christians? Certainly, but that does not mean we are bound to him. We can resist him and he will flee. A mature Christian knows this. It's not arrogance to suggest that, it's scripture.

I John 5:18 "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but He that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

We can certainly discern this is talking about someone who doesn't live in sin as opposed to the habitual/willful sinner. But we see that Satan can't touch that person that "keepeth" himself.


And, we will always fall short and be tempted of many things but it's not impossible to handle those things.

You keep repeating Romans 11:32 but seem to not have gotten farther into Paul's epistle with these-


Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."

You act as if it's impossible to do this but Paul states it's a reasonable service. It's the natural maturation process of a Christian.

Going on..

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."


Again, you must not believe this is possible for yourself according to your posts.

No one is stating that it's possible to be completely sinless but it is possible to mature as a Christian and as one does so through time, it becomes much easier to put the Spirit above the flesh.

You keep bringing up people are hypocritical of others towards others when it comes repentance. But explain how one is doing so when they are simply going through the process of maturing, renewing their minds, etc. Just because you seem stuck in that process doesn't mean others aren't able to do so. No one journey is the same. And we all hit that maturation process at different times, etc. But it all has to do if one has truly repented, turned, thinking differently, etc.

And you can't blame Satan for not maturing as a Christian. Paul states it's a reasonable service. It's doable to mature/sanctify, etc. We will be perfect? Of course not but we can mature, making our walk in life in the flesh easier.