Lordship Salvation vs Free Grace Salvation

[William777]

Just curious what you guys thought of Lordship Salvation compared to Free Grace. Which one you believe and why?

 

[Epiphoskei]

When "Free Grace" is formulated such that it isn't Antinomian (strictly speaking, the belief that the Christian doesn't need to follow any commands; but more loosely, the belief in "carnal Christianity": the belief that people can be saved but live like the world with no change in character at all), it's not that different from Lordship Salvation. The problem is that so often it turns "sola fide" into a pretext for Antinomianism, which I regard as heretical. The belief that one can be saved and then live a life of obstinate rebellion towards God is unbiblical to say the least. But there are those in the no-lordship camp who still argue that the one who lives a life of unrepentant sin probably never were converted to begin with, which I take issue with, but which is certainly less problematic.

 

[William777]

I found it interesting when I first heard of these two classifications a few months ago that both are in the once saved always saved category. If that is true then I am not sure how Lordship salvation (which I lean towards as i learn more about it) is that much different than Free grace.

 

[Epiphoskei]

There's a significant difference, but it lies in how you handle a certain matter which is under moritorium right now, so I can't really get into it.

 

[DeaconDean]

Personally, I don't see a problem with accepting the "free gift of salvation as provided by the grace of God" and making Jesus Christ your Lord.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[AngryKoala]

I believe that God is the one who chooses who is saved and who is not. That being the case, God also is powerful enough to keep those whom he saves, and that being the case, all who are truly saved will accept Him as Lord. So basically, I believe in Lordship salvation since God makes it so.

 

[mlqurgw]

When "Free Grace" is formulated such that it isn't Antinomian (strictly speaking, the belief that the Christian doesn't need to follow any commands; but more loosely, the belief in "carnal Christianity": the belief that people can be saved but live like the world with no change in character at all), it's not that different from Lordship Salvation. The problem is that so often it turns "sola fide" into a pretext for Antinomianism, which I regard as heretical. The belief that one can be saved and then live a life of obstinate rebellion towards God is unbiblical to say the least. But there are those in the no-lordship camp who still argue that the one who lives a life of unrepentant sin probably never were converted to begin with, which I take issue with, but which is certainly less problematic.

As you probably already know I am Free Grace. I understand your contention that it is Antinomian but it really isn't. I do not hold that believers are under the Law in any way but I also do not hold that we will live like profligates after we are born from above. I have an extremely high view of the Law that makes it impossible for any but Christ to keep. I also have an extremely high view of the person and work of Christ. Free Grace teaches that all who know Christ will love Him and live by faith and walk in love to Him and His people. Where we differ with many who hold to Lordship salvation or the historical Reformed position is that believers are no longer under the Law in any way.

 

[Epiphoskei]

As you probably already know I am Free Grace. I understand your contention that it is Antinomian but it really isn't. I do not hold that believers are under the Law in any way but I also do not hold that we will live like profligates after we are born from above. I have an extremely high view of the Law that makes it impossible for any but Christ to keep. I also have an extremely high view of the person and work of Christ. Free Grace teaches that all who know Christ will love Him and live by faith and walk in love to Him and His people. Where we differ with many who hold to Lordship salvation or the historical Reformed position is that believers are no longer under the Law in any way.

What you are expressing is not Antinomian, no. But what you are expressing is not what comes out of the mouths of a whole lot of advocates of Free Grace.

 

[mlqurgw]

What you are expressing is not Antinomian, no. But what you are expressing is not what comes out of the mouths of a whole lot of advocates of Free Grace.

Could you possibly point me to some of those advocates that you believe hold to something different than I do? I am truly interested in reading some of them. I don't ask as a point of debate.

 

[Epiphoskei]

Well, the Grace Evangelical Society comes to mind. I can't be certain where exactly you fall with relation to them, but the way you described your views, it seems you view matters of discipleship as necesarry consequences of salvation, whereas they certainly would not.

 

[the particular baptist]

Hi brother Ron. I think that arminian independent fundy baptists generally hold to what they think is free grace. For instance, people from Hyles Anderson go into Chicagoland and do what they think is soul-winning. They present the watered down man centered version of the gospel and get people to repeat a prayer. These decisions are collected and announced at chapel once a week or something like that, generally on Mondays after a weekend of "soul-winning".

Much like in the days of the heretic Finney, 99.9% of the decisions are false and there is zero to no change in the person from whom a decision was extracted, they still live as if there was no God, or their understanding of God is that He is a cosmic santa claus. According to First Baptist church of Hammond, half of Chicago is saved, that is if you believe their numbers and book keeping of their soul winning and bus ministry over the course of the last three decades. They fully believe these people are saved because they got them to give mental assent to certain spiritual truths and repeat a sinners prayer. This they call free grace.

 

[dies-l]

I believe in Free Grace, through faith, which, by definition changes a person. IOW, defintionally speaking, a person who has placed his "faith" in Christ will not want to be disobedient. Grace comes into the equation in that we are held to the standard of where our heart and mind are oriented, not on how perfectly we actualize our desire to be obedient. However, when we are willfully disobedient, this should be a warning sign that we have not accepted God's Grace. I am not sure what camp that puts me in, but that my thought. FTR, I don't personally put much value in OSAS theology -- I think that that is a question that is largely irrelevant if one is living in obedience to Christ.

 

[Epiphoskei]

I don't think any large number in the Lordship Salvation camp would disagree with that definition of grace.

 

[William777]

FTR, I don't personally put much value in OSAS theology -- I think that that is a question that is largely irrelevant if one is living in obedience to Christ.

Not sure what OSAS is, but this is true

 

[the particular baptist]

Not sure what OSAS is, but this is true

Once Saved Always Saved.

The biblical teaching on this is the Perseverance Of The Saints, or, the P in TULIP. All the saints of God will persevere to the end because they are in His grip.

 

[desmalia]

Free Grace is a poor term to us in contrast to Lordship Salvation. Salvation is by grace, period. That grace by its very nature is free, not by any work we do. However Lordship Salvation teaches that those who have truly been born again will not remain as they were, but grow in sanctification as the Spirit leads. (See 1 John for more detail). All of that is by the free grace of God. The counter stance on that is that people can pray a prayer and be saved, but never have any change in them. IMO that is not saving faith at all.

If anyone is looking for a good in-depth understanding of this I highly recommend MacArthur's "The Gospel According to Jesus". Aside from the Bible itself, this book was more life-changing for me than any other book I've ever read.

 

[AngryKoala]

^^ Right, the Lordship view, from what I understand, states that the believer WILL show fruit if the salvation is truly by God's grace, since we do not believe in a half-competent God but a life changing God right?

 

[the particular baptist]

^^ Right, the Lordship view, from what I understand, states that the believer WILL show fruit if the salvation is truly by God's grace, since we do not believe in a half-competent God but a life changing God right?

The fruit of the Spirit. It is an impossibility for Christ to be Savior and not be Lord. He is Lord in heaven, earth, and hell.

 

[f4ceofbe4r]

Is the gospel according to jesus by john mcarthur a good book to read regarding salvation? I am struggling with being a Christian, by that I mean I do not know if I am saved. I desire to be better, but I feel as if I am trying to work myself to Heaven and that I fear sin because I don't want to go to hell or lose assurance of salvation. When I commit particular sins, it seems to be a big deal to me, where other ones I don't really care that I sinned, but I seek forgiveness immediately after, but it doesn't bother my conscious as much as other sins do. I'm just so lost. Any recommendations?

 

[oneofchrists]

f4ceofbe4r! I would say that Since You are struggling at this point in Your life , You need mostly to pray and read The scriptures daily and pray often , Find good friends that can Mentor You and council You in the word of God (true Christians) those who have been Down this road for a while and are on Fire for God You need to immerse yourself with This stimulae in order to shut Out the old person, the person that You no longer want to Be , that Is one who who is not really sorry for his or Her sins to one who is....

always remember though that there is nothing that You can do to earn Your Salvation it is a gift of God lest any Man should boast . By His precious grace alone are You saved....

I know that You already know this but I say it to reinforce what I have told you above...

Forsake not Yourself in gathering with Other believers (go to church and Sunday School, adult bible classes, and prayer meetings) Read Your Bible daily and have daily devotions to prayer alone....

all of these things will help You to grow in the knowledge and strength in the Lord .....

Don't partake of the follies and sinful traps of this world because these things only hamper and detriment Your walk with Christ...I love You in the Lord ....Dave