any chance you can track own the source for those stats. The way you have put them is not normal way they are generally presented. Would be good to have a look at source just to clarify a few points.
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!
Living with a partner before marriage, "shacking up"
- Thread starter InnocenceCannon
- Start date
The Bible says to flee from temptation.
Adults are sexual beings; if you put a single guy and girl together in a flat and they hit it off, and they are both probably wanting sex anyway as is normal for adults, then that's just playing with fire isn't it? I'll speak for myself: I'm not a player, but if I was close friends with a cute girl and we had a lot of uninterrupted time alone together, the sexual tension would be huge for me because I'm an adult man. In a marriage that naturally leads to a husband hitting on his wife (and vice-versa) and their love making, but because I'm a single Christian I'm not allowed that outlet yet. However, the desire is still there all the same, so it's just playing with fire. I think I represent the norm rather than the exception, although a lot of Christian guys are liars when it comes to talking about their libido for some reason; you know, they're so spiritual so they can handle it, yet they can't explain their porn history on their web browser.
Furthermore it just looks wrong. We're trying to be witnesses for something different: for godliness, which includes a different sexual ethic than just shacking up. If the world sees guy and gal living together, they just assume you're together, even if you're not in that way or unmarried. We don't to give the wrong impression, do we?
It's just unwise. Maybe not "illegal" per se, but dumb. If you want a woman, find a wife and a home for the two of you.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Two adults who live together who are male and female and love each other and are attractive to each others bodies. You think that's not temptation? LOL. You are not strong.
Upvote
0
What's really going to bake your noodle is when you realize that fornication does NOT equal premarital sex. Nor is it mentioned anywhere in the bible. There actually no such concept. The best one can hope for is to translate fornication into sexual immorality, which is clearly defined in Levitcus. As you will see, again there is no such mention.
Whoremongering is clearly stated as a no, no in the bible, meaning sleeping around with multiple people but having one partner is in no way prohibited, as a matter of fact Paul recommends just one wife. Going further, the greek term for "wife" in the bible, simply denotes gender and age. There is no biblical requirement for ceremonies or marriage licenses only the commitment and sexual "consumation" if you will. The last argument will be that you must follow the laws of the government but cohabitating is not a violation of any laws, nor are there any legal requirements for having sex with someone.
Bottom line, cohabitating is fine and be sure you intend to be with her for life if you have sex as, "What God has joined together, let no man seperate.". The joining of the flesh is a bond in the eyes of God. So be sure. God bless!
Whoremongering is clearly stated as a no, no in the bible, meaning sleeping around with multiple people but having one partner is in no way prohibited, as a matter of fact Paul recommends just one wife. Going further, the greek term for "wife" in the bible, simply denotes gender and age. There is no biblical requirement for ceremonies or marriage licenses only the commitment and sexual "consumation" if you will. The last argument will be that you must follow the laws of the government but cohabitating is not a violation of any laws, nor are there any legal requirements for having sex with someone.
Bottom line, cohabitating is fine and be sure you intend to be with her for life if you have sex as, "What God has joined together, let no man seperate.". The joining of the flesh is a bond in the eyes of God. So be sure. God bless!
Upvote
0
The bottom line is that the Bible is staunchly pro marriage, so that is what she be done if you want sex:
1 Corinthians 7:9
But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Your theology lets you have a naked girlfriend, while St Paul's theology lets you have a naked wife.
Go with what Paul teaches.
Upvote
0
Biblical marriage is defined only by sex. That may upset the status quo, but there is no biblical evidence to refute that.
Upvote
0
technofox
Newbie
Thank you WilliamB for bringing it up.
Here is a good bible study on sexual sins for the curious:
Women and Sexual Sins
In a nutshell, if you knock boots then you are expected to marry that person (particularly if it is between one man and on woman). Nothing in scripture about cohabiting being a sin either. Either way, I believe its between you and God for either of those decisions. Just because it is permissible, doesn't mean its good for you, even though it may be good for someone else.
As for the others asking for my sources of statistics, I will try to find more. I am trying to remember where I saw the site with a good break down that I have written from memory, I think it was CNN or Fox News, and I know I have seen it on the local news as well, because it came as a great surprise to most people's perspectives about cohabiting and its relation to divorce.
Key divorce factors are:
- Lack of education
- Low income
- From a single parent house hold
- Young age
Apparently those key factors tend to play a common role in terms of divorce. I was married in my mid-twenties and divorced 2.5 years later. It was a marriage between two believers who waited until marriage for sex, and basically played by the rules for the most part. During the marriage is when I eventually ended up seeing the stark reality of whom I married and the abuse that I endured while fighting to save a marriage that lacked any real love and romance. It was basically a wake up call to ideology not being supported by reality in terms of relationships.
For a relationship to endure you would need mutual love and respect as the foundation, along with friendship, kindness, and similar values. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 sums up what a loving relationship is and that is what to look for.
I met a woman who loves me as I am, and I the same for her. We both love each other despite the difference, because we share similar values and complement each other in many respects; however, with due caution we are moving in together to really see if we are compatible with each other before deciding to tie the knot. I learned from my prior mistakes and not willing to repeat that mistake again.
I don't suggest this to anyone who may see cohabiting or premarital sex as a sin, because I do not want anyone to sin. Basically, I am only offering advice based upon experience and my interpretation of the bible from research, along with other evidence to support my belief and claims. Personally I want everyone's marriage to work out and be based upon what Jesus Christ taught. I hate sin, but not as much as I would like to, because I am sinner only saved by Jesus Christ the Son of God; I just hope my advice may bring some perspective to people whom are considering things that I myself have considered.
To me its more important to walk by faith than by traditions or teachings that may not be technically accurate, but helpful none the less to keep people from possibly sinning (i.e. waiting until marriage = lower likelihood of getting an STD, even though it may not be technically a sin the advice itself is practical in terms of health benefits). Overall, this is why I suggest to people to pray to the Lord and ask Him for advice, and to study scripture before considering cohabitation/premarital sex; all of us on this forum and elsewhere are not as wise as God, and this is why I will hammer over and over again for the OP to go to God himself for advice.
Anyway I am going to take a break, because my sentences are getting a little rant like and cluttered. Other than that I hope the OP asks God for help on this matter, because it is a tough decision. Personally, I would recommend being open and honest about this situation over hiding it, because Paul talked about walking in the light as He is in the light. I may be sinner, but I love Jesus and will stick with him even if others may think I am nuts.
Upvote
0
i will further look at these later when I have more time. thanks for getting back to me. I do not seem to be able to find links to actual studies as yet from the article although I have not read the full article.
Upvote
0
Sketcher
Born Imperishable
1) Major temptation to fornicate, whether you do so or not.
2) It looks like you are fornicating, which is a bad witness. It's not just Christians assuming you're sleeping together, it's everybody.
3) Cohabitation before marriage actually sabotages the marriage, more often than not.
Study Finds Cohabiting Doesn’t Make a Union Last
Living Together Before Marriage: Divorce Research Study Says Cohabitation May Increase Divorce
2) It looks like you are fornicating, which is a bad witness. It's not just Christians assuming you're sleeping together, it's everybody.
3) Cohabitation before marriage actually sabotages the marriage, more often than not.
Study Finds Cohabiting Doesn’t Make a Union Last
Living Together Before Marriage: Divorce Research Study Says Cohabitation May Increase Divorce
Upvote
0
technofox
Newbie
Sketcher said:
Please checkout my link, your studies are out dated. Though some of the assumptions make sense, you have to take into account that the same factors that generally lead to divorce, which I have mentioned earlier, remain the same in both groups. I have found other studies that point this out. Cohabitation between two low educated people with a low income, and a young age (generally mid-twenties or younger) will have a greater chance of divorce.
One of the cruxes that some atheists use to bash us is the lower levels of education and income amongst Christians versus other groups. I have to find the stats, but the bible belt of the USA has higher divorce rates than that of states outside that region. Sadly it is the bible belt region that typically suffers from the common factors that result in increasing the chances for divorce
Luckily its not our faith to blame, but education and poverty. Unfortunately some atheists think it is religion that makes people stupid and can cause the problems that is experienced in the bible belt region, which I personally find that offensive even though don't even live there. I hope the OP understands that the factors repeatedly mentioned in Christian and secular sources that lead to divorce isn't related to cohabitation. This is why it is important to have college education that leads to a higher income, and be older than 25 prior to tying the knot.
My ex-wife lacked a college degree and had a low income, while I am the inverse (subjectively of course). Even though we were both Christians, she had animosity towards my degrees and even though I earned slightly above the average American family it was off set by huge college loans. She didn't understand that debt was a major burden and she made the situation worse by using debt to fuel a life style that she grew up in (her dad makes significantly more money than I could ever hope for). In the end, along with her other issues (abusive and manipulative behavior), I ended up divorcing her and got stuck with her portion of the marital debt :S
I learned a great deal from that experience and realized that divorce can occur due to certain factors. I wouldn't date anyone without a college degree any more, because it seems to be a big problem between those that do and those that don't have a degree. I notice this at place I have worked and in relationships. Though I must admit this does not apply to everyone. It seems to me at least one spouse having a degree = successful marriage, but the stats I have seen seem to point to both spouses having degrees = less risk for divorce.
Please note though that religion (or shared values) does play a role in also lowering the risk; however, I have not seen the statistics as to how much of a role. Everything I have read circles around age, income, and education as the primary reasons for failure or success; basically religion it may seem, plays a lessor role, but this is subjective in nature due to the high divorce rates amongst areas of heavily populated by Christians. If I come across it, I will post it since it would be beneficial to all of us in my opinion.
Upvote
0
jpcedotal
Old School from the Backwoods - Christian Style
- May 26, 2009
- 4,244
- 239
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
maybe because living together first more often than not ends in divorce?
Doing the American social accepted practices of relationships doesn't have a very high success rate...
I don't even have to add the Christian slant, common sense and simple observation reveals this.
Doing the American social accepted practices of relationships doesn't have a very high success rate...
I don't even have to add the Christian slant, common sense and simple observation reveals this.
Upvote
0
technofox
Newbie
TheDag said:
No problem. Being divorced has opened my eyes big time in terms of what to look for in a potential spouse, as well as some of my decisions. Anyone whom has been through what I have gone through will probably make similar decision based upon that experience. I put a lot of thought into the idea of moving and living together with a girlfriend prior to marriage, because of what I have experienced. The divorce, abuse, and debt that I have gone through all could have been avoided had I lived with my ex-wife prior to marriage, which would have eventually revealed that she wanted me to take care of her like a surrogate father (or something to that effect). Basically she wanted a sugar daddy and maid.
<rant> It still burns me that I had gone through that all in the name of waiting until marriage tradition. I hope that irritation goes away, but it has made me all the more stubborn to listen to the typical advice given here and at my church. Its kinda funny that I go to a fundamentalist church, but overall they accept people as they are and let God do his job at to changing them. That is the only reason why I even bother going to church at all instead of having to find a new one. I have no desire to leave Christ, just churches full of busy body legalists who think its their business to judge what is best for other people's lives when that is God's job. </ rant>
Upvote
0
technofox
Newbie
jpcedotal said:
Dude please read the link I have posted in one of my prior posts. Cohabiting does not increase the risk as I have pointed out earlier. I have mentioned the primary factors in divorce are: age, education, and income.
Common sense is not so common, but only common to those whom think it is common
Upvote
0
I've known couples where a problem that existed before marriage took a decade to come out and cause the end of the marriage. Sorry but cohabitating before marriage is not going to pick that up. It is different for different people. One of the big problems I notice is that usually people change after getting married. After loving the person and accepting them as they are suddenly they want the other person to change. or often for the guy before they are married his girlfriends opinion is very important to him but then they get married and suddenly her opinion is not important. Even without getting married there is still generally a 'honeymoon' period where these things are dismissed 'because of love'. if you cohabit for say a year then personally I believe you should be considered married for the purpose of statistics. Essentially at that point you are living as a married couple. So each of those who cohabit and then seperate before getting married need to be considered same as married couple who divorces. If not then it is not a fair comparision.
We are all shaped by past experience and so your views are also shaped by your experience. A number of the problems you mentioned can be spotted before marriage. Certainly when I was young I couldeasily sweep all those problems aside and dismiss them. When I was older and looking to get married to my girlfriend I was mature enough to not do that and discuss potential problems and work it out before getting married. not all problems can be spotted before marriage. However that leads to another point. It is less likely that people will put in the effort to keep a marriage going. it has been said that before no fault divorce people tended to stay married because they had to work out their problems where these days they can easily divorce. i think there is some truth to that.
Looking at the study quoted in the link it says those who cohabit without being engaged have a lower probability that their marriage will last 20 years when compared to those who cohabit once they are engaged. That is an interesting point. There is still so much to read and it is not something I want to do when tired.
Actually that is not strictly biblical. You are correct we are not to judge as such however we are fully within our right and have the obligation to fellow christians to correct them in love if they are in error. This to me means nobody on an internet forum should be correcting anyone. Giving an opinion when asked no problem but you can't correct a total stranger in love in my opinion. You need to know them.
Upvote
0
The issue I have with this is that I do not think the first truth they list is justified. Considering it builds each new truth on the previous this skews every claim they make. i would say it is a half truth.
Upvote
0
CounselorForChrist
Senior Veteran
I'll throw in my 3 cents here (had an extra penny).
1. Living together is not a sin, but it can lead to it. And trust me most of the time it ends up turning into sin eventhough most claim they are diffrent and won't let it turn out that way (I know from my life).
2. THe other reason its dangerous is because there is a saying that says after something like 7 months (or was it years?) you get to a point where you feel like your love is going away to some degree. It happens almost everyone in a relationship. SO if you live with each other for to long, you may fall out of love. Now you will either stop being together or you may end up sinning in order to reignite that flame. Its dangerous!
Its why I feel if you truly have prayed, fasted....etc and made sure this person is the one for you. You marry them. Because if your love is true, you will get past that "falling out of love" thing.
I may have not worded all this properly since I am out of this morning but hopefully you got my point.
1. Living together is not a sin, but it can lead to it. And trust me most of the time it ends up turning into sin eventhough most claim they are diffrent and won't let it turn out that way (I know from my life).
2. THe other reason its dangerous is because there is a saying that says after something like 7 months (or was it years?) you get to a point where you feel like your love is going away to some degree. It happens almost everyone in a relationship. SO if you live with each other for to long, you may fall out of love. Now you will either stop being together or you may end up sinning in order to reignite that flame. Its dangerous!
Its why I feel if you truly have prayed, fasted....etc and made sure this person is the one for you. You marry them. Because if your love is true, you will get past that "falling out of love" thing.
I may have not worded all this properly since I am out of this morning but hopefully you got my point.
Upvote
0
technofox
Newbie
TheDag said:
There is more information than just that. Read my follow up posts. The primary factors in the success or failure of a marriage is generally age, education, and income.
I understand that neither one of us will agree with the other. It may not be a sin to cohabit and as for premarital sex it is expected that one should marry the person whom they are having sex with (the premarital sex link does go through scripture and concludes that it is expected that an unmarried couple having sex should marry).
I do expect to be rebuled if I am sinning; however, only if there is a clear cut passage that supports the rebuke. If there isn't I leave it to one's conscience. To me this is more like choosing to eat pork or have sex during a woman's period. There are over 630 commandments, some that many of us Christians break regularly.
So with all of that in mind, we are pretty much at an impasse. I will post further stats when I get the chance, but you can google the three primary factors that center around mosts divorces. One thing I will agree is that our different experiences lead us to make different decisions.
Upvote
0
