Liturgical Worship: Biblical or Unbiblical?

[Blackknight]

Yes, it's supposed to be light hearted. Forgive me.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Yes, it's supposed to be light hearted. Forgive me.

NO no...I'm sorry seriously.
I posted my knee-jerk reaction.
I took it in the wrong context as you posted it and it's my fault.
I just can't stand some of the ignorance posted in the name of the universal church on youtube, etc now a days.
I know you meant no harm.
FORGIVE ME brother.


Good beat in it though.

 

[Blackknight]

No worries. People often read me wrong online.

The Internet is a great mis-communication platform.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

No worries. People often read me wrong online.

The Internet is a great mis-communication platform.

As a system's analyst, I wholeheartedly agree.
I should be more discerning before I open my erm...fingers in response to typed words.

 

[Albion]

If liturgy is a synonym for having some type of organization then, yeah, sure. I stand by my earlier post, it's not a Liturgy without the Eucharist (a valid one). In fact that's how you know whether there will be communion or not. Liturgy means there will be a eucharist. Vespers does not, etc. etc.

As my fellow Anglican, Ebia, wrote, I'm not awfully concerned about this particular question. Nevertheless, I think its possible to consider some non-Eucharistic services to be "liturgical." I wouldn't say that a routine prayer service that has no particular format is liturgical, but you can have a service that is essentially the same as the Mass, save only for there being no consecration or distribution. The prayers, petitions, readings, sermon, and etc. remain in the way that a liturgical service is distinguised from an unscriptured one that is unlike the Christian worship services of history.

Lutherans, for one, do a lot of that. We, however, tend to go to Morning Prayer instead, which is a condensed form of the monastic offices of Matins and Lauds, so it you wouldn't call that "liturgical," I understand.

 

[Polycarp1]

Almost all "Protestant" services that follow a prescribed "Order of Worship", such as the Presbyterian and Methodist non-sacramental orders and what at least some Baptist churches do, is, like the Anglican Morning and Evening Prayer, derived from the monastic offices, is derived from the Anglican services themselves in some cases, or is derived from the order of service of the Protestant denomination which the denomination in question schismed from. There may be exceptions to this, but I have not encountered them.

 

[ebia]

As my fellow Anglican, Ebia, wrote, I'm not awfully concerned about this particular question. Nevertheless, I think its possible to consider some non-Eucharistic services to be "liturgical." I wouldn't say that a routine prayer service that has no particular format is liturgical, but you can have a service that is essentially the same as the Mass, save only for there being no consecration or distribution. The prayers, petitions, readings, sermon, and etc. remain in the way that a liturgical service is distinguised from an unscriptured one that is unlike the Christian worship services of history.

To put the question a slightly different way around, isn't the Liturgy of the Word still a liturgy even when not immediately followed by the Liturgy of the Eucharist?

 

[Albion]

To put the question a slightly different way around, isn't the Liturgy of the Word still a liturgy even when not immediately followed by the Liturgy of the Eucharist?

Well said!

Yes.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I always saw the Liturgy in the book of Revelation

So instead of looking at Revelation as a book of Prophecy and studying it as such, it is simply used as a "liturgical" book by the RCC and EOC? EGADS!

Worship in the Book of Revelation and the Eastern Orthodox Liturgy | JGospel.Net

Worship in the Book of Revelation and the Eastern Orthodox Liturgy
(Faith : Worship)
Eastern Orthodox, Revelation, Liturgy, Worship, Early Church Worship
Worship in the Book of Revelation and the Eastern Orthodox Liturgy --- by Robert Gray

 

[John Yurich]

There is nothing wrong with liturgical worship. There are some aspects of the liturgical worship in the Catholic Church that are unbiblical and some aspects that are biblical. The Mass is not entirely unbiblical because the readings from the Bible, the Lord's Prayer, prayers to Jesus, the Gloria(Prayer to the Holy Trinity), the Nicene Creed(Except for the mention of Baptism remits sin), the Eucharistica Prayer(Except for the mention of the intercession of the Virgin Mary and the Saints) and the words of Jesus from the Last Supper are biblical.

 

[MrPolo]

So instead of looking at Revelation as a book of Prophecy and studying it as such, it is simply used as a "liturgical" book by the RCC and EOC? EGADS!

Even if you look at Revelation as prophecy as in what happens in the future, it's still in many places referring to the Liturgy throughout the centuries that followed its writing. But also don't forget Hebrews, the Gospels, the Epistles, and the Old Testament types too, O Resurrector of Ancient Threads.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Even if you look at Revelation as prophecy as in what happens in the future, it's still in many places referring to the Liturgy throughout the centuries that followed its writing. But also don't forget Hebrews, the Gospels, the Epistles, and the Old Testament types too, O Resurrector of Ancient Threads.

I ain't tha 1 that did it dis time ,......but in any case:

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Ok, everybody....go.

It's abiblical.






.

 

[Kristos]

Acts ch2 - The Church of Christ is liturgical. Read the Greek.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

As Cobweb said, liturgy is very biblical. It is very much like the system that God set up in the OT. Where in the New Testament did God set down a new pattern of worship? Where did he throw his earlier pattern out? Since God very meticulously set out the pattern of worship in the OT, where is His meticulous new pattern of worship in the NT?

The moment Christ died and rose again, it became a different pattern. Christ is our High Priest, under the Old Testament, because He was from the tribe of Judah, He would never serve as Priest for that belonged only to the Levites, but He is High Priest...so the moment Christ rose, there was a new pattern in the way of which we worship. The book of Acts and following shows us the pattern of which the first century Christians worshiped and it didn't read anything like the Old Testament. In the New Testament, we see more of a worshiping, under the Old Testament, we seen how they lived in their faith (or how they didn't live in their faith)...same for the New, but we also get a bigger glimpse of that worship.

 

[Kristos]

The moment Christ died and rose again, it became a different pattern. Christ is our High Priest, under the Old Testament, because He was from the tribe of Judah, He would never serve as Priest for that belonged only to the Levites, but He is High Priest...so the moment Christ rose, there was a new pattern in the way of which we worship. The book of Acts and following shows us the pattern of which the first century Christians worshiped and it didn't read anything like the Old Testament. In the New Testament, we see more of a worshiping, under the Old Testament, we seen how they lived in their faith (or how they didn't live in their faith)...same for the New, but we also get a bigger glimpse of that worship.

It has changed, but it's still Liturgical.

 

[Tzaousios]

The moment Christ died and rose again, it became a different pattern. Christ is our High Priest, under the Old Testament, because He was from the tribe of Judah, He would never serve as Priest for that belonged only to the Levites, but He is High Priest...so the moment Christ rose, there was a new pattern in the way of which we worship.

But that does not mean that the worship cannot be liturgical. To say it cannot be is to open one up to the suspicion that the priority is to say whatever is exactly opposite of Catholics and Orthodox say and do.

The book of Acts and following shows us the pattern of which the first century Christians worshiped and it didn't read anything like the Old Testament. In the New Testament, we see more of a worshiping, under the Old Testament, we seen how they lived in their faith (or how they didn't live in their faith)...same for the New, but we also get a bigger glimpse of that worship.

Which is what, exactly, effeminate crooning by a self-indulgent "worship leader," frantically strumming guitarists, and songs which make Christ into the love interest of a pop ballad? Somehow, I do not think that the OT or the NT established the typical non-denominational Protestant worship fad over liturgical worship which has been around for thousands of years.

 

[Incariol]

The book of Acts and following shows us the pattern of which the first century Christians worshiped and it didn't read anything like the Old Testament.

In the New Testament, we see more of a worshiping, under the Old Testament, we seen how they lived in their faith (or how they didn't live in their faith)...same for the New, but we also get a bigger glimpse of that worship.

Yes, and that "New" worship is blatantly liturgical.

 

[Kristos]

But that does not mean that the worship cannot be liturgical. To say it cannot be is to open one up to the suspicion that the priority is to say whatever is exactly opposite of Catholics and Orthodox say and do.



Which is what, exactly, effeminate crooning by a self-indulgent "worship leader," frantically strumming guitarists, and songs which make Christ into the love interest of a pop ballad? Somehow, I do not think that the OT or the NT established the typical non-denominational Protestant worship fad over liturgical worship which has been around for thousands of years.

Effeminate crooning? LOL! Now there is a phrase I never thought I would read on this Forum

 

[Dorothea]

The sacrifice changed, not the worship. There was still reading of the Scripture of the day, the use of incense, prayers, etc. The Eucharist became the center and animal sacrifices were ended.