Lies - How to see Them

[CoreyD]

Is there anything more dangerous than a lie?
Perhaps, but a lie is among one of the most dangerous things, and something that God hates. Proverbs 6:16-19

Believing a lie can lead to death, and especially when it comes to spiritual things. believing the lie, leads to everlasting death. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12
How can we see lies for what they are?

In this thread, I will seek to show how one can identify lies.
John 8:31, 32
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Using the scriptures, we can identify the lie.
To identify a lie, we must identify the truth.
Let's identify our first lie.

Is the following statement true, or false?
Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul.

Let's first identify the truth.
Ecclesiastes 9:4-10

4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.​

5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun.​

7 Go, eat your bread with joy, And drink your wine with a merry heart; For God has already accepted your works.
8 Let your garments always be white, And let your head lack no oil.​

9 Live joyfully with the wife whom you love all the days of your vain life which He has given you under the sun, all your days of vanity; for that is your portion in life, and in the labor which you perform under the sun.​

10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave [Sheol] where you are going.​

Is that the truth? You decide.
For me... it is indeed the truth, and is supported by the following:

Psalm 146:4

His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.​

Psalm 115:17

The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor do any who go down into silence;​

Psalm 104:29

You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.​

Psalm 88:10

Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you?​

Ecclesiastes 12:7

then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.​

According to the Bible - the word of God - is the spirit underground, in the earth... in some deep pit?
No. The Bible says... the spirit departs. It returns to God. God takes it. The spirit does not rise up from the earth.

If you use the word of God, you will be able to see the truth, and thus identify the lie.

Some argue though, that the Bible says Samuel spoke to Saul, and therefore, Samuel was alive.
1 Samuel 28:15 Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
However, in the preceding verses, the Bible, nowhere says that Samuel, nor his spirit, were alive, and stood before Saul.

1 Samuel 28​

8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Please conduct a séance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you.”​

​

9 Then the woman said to him, “Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?”​

​

10 And Saul swore to her by the Lord, saying, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.”​

​

11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”​

​

And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”​

​

12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!”​

​

13 And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”​

​

And the woman said to Saul, “I saw [a god - Heb. elohim] ascending out of the earth.”​

​

14 So he said to her, “What is his form?”​

​

And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.​

Saul did not see anything, or anyone.
The woman, who was a transgressor of God's law, and involved with God's enemies - Satan and his demons - was communicating with Saul.
Would you believe a woman who was associated with the chief liar, to tell you the truth, and what would a woman involved with wicked spirits bring before to speak to you?

The Bible says, that God lets people who reject his truths, believe the lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12
So, if we believe lies, when the truth says something contrary, would we know it's a lie?
According to the definition of the word, no, we would not know.
This would prevent us from identifying lies.

We have seen though, that we can identify lies, by simply using the scriptures, and identifying the truth.
Once we identify the truth, we can expose the lies.
If, however, we reject the truth, or dismiss it, we will not be able to identify the lie, and there is no way for us to avoid everlasting destruction.

It's important then that we accept the truth found in God's word.
In this case... the condition of the dead.

• the living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anything
• there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol - the grave where you are going
• man's spirit departs, he returns to the earth, and in that very day his thoughts perish
• the dead do not praise God, but go down into silence
• God take away their spirit, and they expire, returning to their dust
• the spirit will return to God who gave it, and it does not rise up from the dust

These truths, we can build on, so as to be fortified, or armed against other lies.

 

[eleos1954]

Is there anything more dangerous than a lie?
Perhaps, but a lie is among one of the most dangerous things, and something that God hates. Proverbs 6:16-19

Believing a lie can lead to death, and especially when it comes to spiritual things. believing the lie, leads to everlasting death. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12
How can we see lies for what they are?

In this thread, I will seek to show how one can identify lies.
John 8:31, 32
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Using the scriptures, we can identify the lie.
To identify a lie, we must identify the truth.
Let's identify our first lie.

Is the following statement true, or false?
Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul.

Let's first identify the truth.
Ecclesiastes 9:4-10

4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.​

5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.​

6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun.​

7 Go, eat your bread with joy, And drink your wine with a merry heart; For God has already accepted your works.​

8 Let your garments always be white, And let your head lack no oil.​

9 Live joyfully with the wife whom you love all the days of your vain life which He has given you under the sun, all your days of vanity; for that is your portion in life, and in the labor which you perform under the sun.​

10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave [Sheol] where you are going.​

Is that the truth? You decide.
For me... it is indeed the truth, and is supported by the following:

Psalm 146:4

His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.​

Psalm 115:17

The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor do any who go down into silence;​

Psalm 104:29

You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.​

Psalm 88:10

Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you?​

Ecclesiastes 12:7

then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.​

According to the Bible - the word of God - is the spirit underground, in the earth... in some deep pit?
No. The Bible says... the spirit departs. It returns to God. God takes it. The spirit does not rise up from the earth.

If you use the word of God, you will be able to see the truth, and thus identify the lie.

Some argue though, that the Bible says Samuel spoke to Saul, and therefore, Samuel was alive.
1 Samuel 28:15 Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
However, in the preceding verses, the Bible, nowhere says that Samuel, nor his spirit, were alive, and stood before Saul.

1 Samuel 28​

8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Please conduct a séance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you.”​

​

9 Then the woman said to him, “Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?”​

​

10 And Saul swore to her by the Lord, saying, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.”​

​

11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”​

​

And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”​

​

12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!”​

​

13 And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”​

​

And the woman said to Saul, “I saw [a god - Heb. elohim] ascending out of the earth.”​

​

14 So he said to her, “What is his form?”​

​

And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.​

Saul did not see anything, or anyone.
The woman, who was a transgressor of God's law, and involved with God's enemies - Satan and his demons - was communicating with Saul.
Would you believe a woman who was associated with the chief liar, to tell you the truth, and what would a woman involved with wicked spirits bring before to speak to you?

The Bible says, that God lets people who reject his truths, believe the lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12
So, if we believe lies, when the truth says something contrary, would we know it's a lie?
According to the definition of the word, no, we would not know.
This would prevent us from identifying lies.

We have seen though, that we can identify lies, by simply using the scriptures, and identifying the truth.
Once we identify the truth, we can expose the lies.
If, however, we reject the truth, or dismiss it, we will not be able to identify the lie, and there is no way for us to avoid everlasting destruction.

It's important then that we accept the truth found in God's word.
In this case... the condition of the dead.

• the living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anything
• there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol - the grave where you are going
• man's spirit departs, he returns to the earth, and in that very day his thoughts perish
• the dead do not praise God, but go down into silence
• God take away their spirit, and they expire, returning to their dust
• the spirit will return to God who gave it, and it does not rise up from the dust

These truths, we can build on, so as to be fortified, or armed against other lies.

It's important then that we accept the truth found in God's word.
In this case... the condition of the dead.

• the living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anything
• there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol - the grave where you are going
• man's spirit departs, he returns to the earth, and in that very day his thoughts perish
• the dead do not praise God, but go down into silence
• God take away their spirit, and they expire, returning to their dust
• the spirit will return to God who gave it, and it does not rise up from the dust

Is there anything more dangerous than a lie?
Perhaps, but a lie is among one of the most dangerous things, and something that God hates. Proverbs 6:16-19

Believing a lie can lead to death, and especially when it comes to spiritual things. believing the lie, leads to everlasting death. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12
How can we see lies for what they are?

In this thread, I will seek to show how one can identify lies.
John 8:31, 32
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Using the scriptures, we can identify the lie.
To identify a lie, we must identify the truth.
Let's identify our first lie.

Is the following statement true, or false?
Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul.

Let's first identify the truth.
Ecclesiastes 9:4-10

4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.​

5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.​

6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun.​

7 Go, eat your bread with joy, And drink your wine with a merry heart; For God has already accepted your works.​

8 Let your garments always be white, And let your head lack no oil.​

9 Live joyfully with the wife whom you love all the days of your vain life which He has given you under the sun, all your days of vanity; for that is your portion in life, and in the labor which you perform under the sun.​

10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave [Sheol] where you are going.​

Is that the truth? You decide.
For me... it is indeed the truth, and is supported by the following:

Psalm 146:4

His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.​

Psalm 115:17

The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor do any who go down into silence;​

Psalm 104:29

You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.​

Psalm 88:10

Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you?​

Ecclesiastes 12:7

then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.​

According to the Bible - the word of God - is the spirit underground, in the earth... in some deep pit?
No. The Bible says... the spirit departs. It returns to God. God takes it. The spirit does not rise up from the earth.

If you use the word of God, you will be able to see the truth, and thus identify the lie.

Some argue though, that the Bible says Samuel spoke to Saul, and therefore, Samuel was alive.
1 Samuel 28:15 Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
However, in the preceding verses, the Bible, nowhere says that Samuel, nor his spirit, were alive, and stood before Saul.

1 Samuel 28​

8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Please conduct a séance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you.”​

​

9 Then the woman said to him, “Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?”​

​

10 And Saul swore to her by the Lord, saying, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.”​

​

11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”​

​

And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”​

​

12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!”​

​

13 And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”​

​

And the woman said to Saul, “I saw [a god - Heb. elohim] ascending out of the earth.”​

​

14 So he said to her, “What is his form?”​

​

And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.​

Saul did not see anything, or anyone.
The woman, who was a transgressor of God's law, and involved with God's enemies - Satan and his demons - was communicating with Saul.
Would you believe a woman who was associated with the chief liar, to tell you the truth, and what would a woman involved with wicked spirits bring before to speak to you?

The Bible says, that God lets people who reject his truths, believe the lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12
So, if we believe lies, when the truth says something contrary, would we know it's a lie?
According to the definition of the word, no, we would not know.
This would prevent us from identifying lies.

We have seen though, that we can identify lies, by simply using the scriptures, and identifying the truth.
Once we identify the truth, we can expose the lies.
If, however, we reject the truth, or dismiss it, we will not be able to identify the lie, and there is no way for us to avoid everlasting destruction.

It's important then that we accept the truth found in God's word.
In this case... the condition of the dead.

• the living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anything
• there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol - the grave where you are going
• man's spirit departs, he returns to the earth, and in that very day his thoughts perish
• the dead do not praise God, but go down into silence
• God take away their spirit, and they expire, returning to their dust
• the spirit will return to God who gave it, and it does not rise up from the dust

These truths, we can build on, so as to be fortified, or armed against other lies.

It's important then that we accept the truth found in God's word.
In this case... the condition of the dead.

• the living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anything
• there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol - the grave where you are going
• man's spirit departs, he returns to the earth, and in that very day his thoughts perish
• the dead do not praise God, but go down into silence
• God take away their spirit, and they expire, returning to their dust
• the spirit will return to God who gave it, and it does not rise up from the dust

This is a VERY important truth to know and here's why ...

If one believes that one's "spirit" goes to heaven when they die .... then it opens the door of us to falling pray to familiar spirits which are demons ... also could cause one to seek out a "witch" or "medium" thinking one can contact a deceased person (such as King Saul did)

I actually experienced this myself .... not too long after my husband had passed ... I was sitting on the couch and all of a sudden a image of him appeared to me and I mean to tell you at the time it looked unbelievably real ... I commanded the spirit to leave in the name of Jesus and it left and never returned again ... but I'm telling you for about 5 minutes or so I was amazed and perplexed.

Don't be deceived ... the dead really are dead ... dormant in the grave.

 

[Job 33:6]

Is the following statement true, or false?
Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul

1 Samuel 28:7-8, 11, 13-15 ESV
[7] Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.” [8] So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.”
[11] Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”
[13] The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” [14] He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. [15] Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.”

The Bible says what it says.

 

[CoreyD]

If one believes that one's "spirit" goes to heaven when they die .... then it opens the door of us to falling pray to familiar spirits which are demons ... also could cause one to seek out a "witch" or "medium" thinking one can contact a deceased person (such as King Saul did)

I actually experienced this myself .... not too long after my husband had passed ... I was sitting on the couch and all of a sudden a image of him appeared to me and I mean to tell you at the time it looked unbelievably real ... I commanded the spirit to leave in the name of Jesus and it left and never returned again ... but I'm telling you for about 5 minutes or so I was amazed and perplexed.

I'm really glad that you were able to use the scriptures to see the lie, because there are some persons who will say you actually chased away your husband. LOL.
Yes, some people really believe the dead are living in a so-called underworld, and they come out of that world, and interact with the living.
Lies are hard to see, for some people.

Don't be deceived ... the dead really are dead ... dormant in the grave.

I'm glad you made this point, because some say the dead are actually living... able to communicate, and be active.

The Bible says...

• Psalm 146:4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.
• Psalm 115:17 The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor do any who go down into silence;
• Psalm 104:29 You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.
• Psalm 88:10 Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you?
• Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

With these truth, we actually are able to dismiss what people claim as a lie.
The truth reveals lies.

 

[CoreyD]

Is the following statement true, or false?
Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul

1 Samuel 28:7-8, 11, 13-15 ESV
[7] Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.” [8] So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.”
[11] Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”
[13] The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” [14] He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. [15] Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.”

The Bible says what it says.

Yes... and it does not say Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul.
Are you in disagreement?

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes... and it does not say Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul.
Are you in disagreement?

1 Samuel 28:7-8, 11, 13-15 ESV
[7] Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.” [8] So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.”
[11] Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”
[13] The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god [elohim] coming up out of the earth.” [14] He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. [15] Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.”

Are you not able to see what I have in bold? Maybe you don't know what an elohim is?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Is there anything more dangerous than a lie?
Perhaps, but a lie is among one of the most dangerous things, and something that God hates. Proverbs 6:16-19

Believing a lie can lead to death, and especially when it comes to spiritual things. believing the lie, leads to everlasting death. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12
How can we see lies for what they are?

In this thread, I will seek to show how one can identify lies.
John 8:31, 32
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Using the scriptures, we can identify the lie.
To identify a lie, we must identify the truth.
Let's identify our first lie.

Is the following statement true, or false?
Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul.

Let's first identify the truth.
Ecclesiastes 9:4-10

4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.​

5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.​

6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun.​

7 Go, eat your bread with joy, And drink your wine with a merry heart; For God has already accepted your works.​

8 Let your garments always be white, And let your head lack no oil.​

9 Live joyfully with the wife whom you love all the days of your vain life which He has given you under the sun, all your days of vanity; for that is your portion in life, and in the labor which you perform under the sun.​

10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave [Sheol] where you are going.​

Is that the truth? You decide.
For me... it is indeed the truth, and is supported by the following:

Psalm 146:4

His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.​

Psalm 115:17

The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor do any who go down into silence;​

Psalm 104:29

You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.​

Psalm 88:10

Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you?​

Ecclesiastes 12:7

then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.​

According to the Bible - the word of God - is the spirit underground, in the earth... in some deep pit?
No. The Bible says... the spirit departs. It returns to God. God takes it. The spirit does not rise up from the earth.

If you use the word of God, you will be able to see the truth, and thus identify the lie.

Some argue though, that the Bible says Samuel spoke to Saul, and therefore, Samuel was alive.
1 Samuel 28:15 Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
However, in the preceding verses, the Bible, nowhere says that Samuel, nor his spirit, were alive, and stood before Saul.

1 Samuel 28​

8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Please conduct a séance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you.”​

​

9 Then the woman said to him, “Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?”​

​

10 And Saul swore to her by the Lord, saying, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.”​

​

11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”​

​

And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”​

​

12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!”​

​

13 And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”​

​

And the woman said to Saul, “I saw [a god - Heb. elohim] ascending out of the earth.”​

​

14 So he said to her, “What is his form?”​

​

And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.​

Saul did not see anything, or anyone.
The woman, who was a transgressor of God's law, and involved with God's enemies - Satan and his demons - was communicating with Saul.
Would you believe a woman who was associated with the chief liar, to tell you the truth, and what would a woman involved with wicked spirits bring before to speak to you?

The Bible says, that God lets people who reject his truths, believe the lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12
So, if we believe lies, when the truth says something contrary, would we know it's a lie?
According to the definition of the word, no, we would not know.
This would prevent us from identifying lies.

We have seen though, that we can identify lies, by simply using the scriptures, and identifying the truth.
Once we identify the truth, we can expose the lies.
If, however, we reject the truth, or dismiss it, we will not be able to identify the lie, and there is no way for us to avoid everlasting destruction.

It's important then that we accept the truth found in God's word.
In this case... the condition of the dead.

• the living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anything
• there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol - the grave where you are going
• man's spirit departs, he returns to the earth, and in that very day his thoughts perish
• the dead do not praise God, but go down into silence
• God take away their spirit, and they expire, returning to their dust
• the spirit will return to God who gave it, and it does not rise up from the dust

These truths, we can build on, so as to be fortified, or armed against other lies.

There are different ways of looking at this.

First, we have to account for the living dead. (Let the dead bury their dead Luke 9:60)

Then, we can look at the dead dead, and we do see in Scriptures something about Abrahams bosom, or there specifically being conscious life after death. (Luke 16:19-31)

That said - the living dead in Sheol were set free upon Christ's death on the cross, so it's not there anymore in the same form in our day. (Ephesians 4:8)

The living know they will die... This is true for the live living, not just about it, it's in our bones. This is the judgement, because it is, we feel it more acutely.

Not everyone knows this, it's not in their bones, they are the living dead. (Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die - 1 Corinthians 15:32)

Dead people have no wisdom since they don't know God. Proverbs 2:6 Proverbs 9:10

And if course after death it's too late to repent (Abrahams bosom shows us this)

So there's a lot that can be unpacked according to the context it might have been given.

What point are you trying to specifically make with this thread?

 

[B Griffin]

Is there anything more dangerous than a lie?
Perhaps, but a lie is among one of the most dangerous things, and something that God hates. Proverbs 6:16-19

Believing a lie can lead to death, and especially when it comes to spiritual things. believing the lie, leads to everlasting death. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12
How can we see lies for what they are?

In this thread, I will seek to show how one can identify lies.
John 8:31, 32
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Using the scriptures, we can identify the lie.
To identify a lie, we must identify the truth.
Let's identify our first lie.

Is the following statement true, or false?
Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul.

Let's first identify the truth.
Ecclesiastes 9:4-10

4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.​

5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.​

6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun.​

7 Go, eat your bread with joy, And drink your wine with a merry heart; For God has already accepted your works.​

8 Let your garments always be white, And let your head lack no oil.​

9 Live joyfully with the wife whom you love all the days of your vain life which He has given you under the sun, all your days of vanity; for that is your portion in life, and in the labor which you perform under the sun.​

10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave [Sheol] where you are going.​

Is that the truth? You decide.
For me... it is indeed the truth, and is supported by the following:

Psalm 146:4

His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.​

Psalm 115:17

The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor do any who go down into silence;​

Psalm 104:29

You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.​

Psalm 88:10

Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you?​

Ecclesiastes 12:7

then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.​

According to the Bible - the word of God - is the spirit underground, in the earth... in some deep pit?
No. The Bible says... the spirit departs. It returns to God. God takes it. The spirit does not rise up from the earth.

If you use the word of God, you will be able to see the truth, and thus identify the lie.

Some argue though, that the Bible says Samuel spoke to Saul, and therefore, Samuel was alive.
1 Samuel 28:15 Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
However, in the preceding verses, the Bible, nowhere says that Samuel, nor his spirit, were alive, and stood before Saul.

1 Samuel 28​

8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Please conduct a séance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you.”​

​

9 Then the woman said to him, “Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?”​

​

10 And Saul swore to her by the Lord, saying, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.”​

​

11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”​

​

And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”​

​

12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!”​

​

13 And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”​

​

And the woman said to Saul, “I saw [a god - Heb. elohim] ascending out of the earth.”​

​

14 So he said to her, “What is his form?”​

​

And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.​

Saul did not see anything, or anyone.
The woman, who was a transgressor of God's law, and involved with God's enemies - Satan and his demons - was communicating with Saul.
Would you believe a woman who was associated with the chief liar, to tell you the truth, and what would a woman involved with wicked spirits bring before to speak to you?

The Bible says, that God lets people who reject his truths, believe the lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12
So, if we believe lies, when the truth says something contrary, would we know it's a lie?
According to the definition of the word, no, we would not know.
This would prevent us from identifying lies.

We have seen though, that we can identify lies, by simply using the scriptures, and identifying the truth.
Once we identify the truth, we can expose the lies.
If, however, we reject the truth, or dismiss it, we will not be able to identify the lie, and there is no way for us to avoid everlasting destruction.

It's important then that we accept the truth found in God's word.
In this case... the condition of the dead.

• the living know that they will die, but the dead do not know anything
• there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol - the grave where you are going
• man's spirit departs, he returns to the earth, and in that very day his thoughts perish
• the dead do not praise God, but go down into silence
• God take away their spirit, and they expire, returning to their dust
• the spirit will return to God who gave it, and it does not rise up from the dust

These truths, we can build on, so as to be fortified, or armed against other lies.

Why in the world would you pick such an obscure topic from the Bible to talk about lies?

 

[CoreyD]

1 Samuel 28:7-8, 11, 13-15 ESV
[7] Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.” [8] So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.”
[11] Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”
[13] The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god [elohim] coming up out of the earth.” [14] He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. [15] Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.”

Are you not able to see what I have in bold? Maybe you don't know what an elohim is?

Is that a yes?
I do not see "Samuel's spirit" in that bold red text.
Do you?

Are you not claiming that Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul?

 

[Job 33:6]

Is that a yes?
I do not see "Samuel's spirit" in that bold red text.
Do you?

Are you not claiming that Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul?

Do you know what an elohim is?

 

[Job 33:6]

1 Samuel 28:7-8, 11, 13-15 ESV
[7] Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.” [8] So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.”
[11] Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”
[13] The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god [elohim] coming up out of the earth.” [14] He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. [15] Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.”

Are you not able to see what I have in bold? Maybe you don't know what an elohim is?

@CoreyD

Let's look at what it says.

Saul identifies a medium. Which are people that speak to spirits.

Saul asks the medium to bring up "a spirit" from the earth.

The medium asks, "who shall I bring up for you?"

Saul says "Samuel". Now Samuels physical body isn't even in this town. Samuel was buried miles away, so we know that it's not talking about a physical body.

1 Samuel 28:3-4, 6-7 ESV
[3] Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. And Saul had put the mediums and the necromancers out of the land. [4] The Philistines assembled and came and encamped at Shunem. And Saul gathered all Israel, and they encamped at Gilboa.
[6] And when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, either by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets. [7] Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.”

Samuel was buried in Ramah. Saul is over in Gilboa.

The medium summons Samuel and says "I see an elohim" which is a spirit. That's what elohim are in the old testament.

And Samuel speaks to Saul and asks "why have you brought me up?

@CoreyD
And your response is:
"Well it must be talking about samuels physical body"

Ok, well, when you're ready to be honest about the Bible, I'll be here.

 

[CoreyD]

There are different ways of looking at this.

First, we have to account for the living dead. (Let the dead bury their dead).

Matthew 8:21, 22
21 Then another of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.”
22 But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

Jesus is referring to the spiritually dead, burying the physical dead.
Are you in agreement? Then that is not what we are discussing here.
People claim that there are physically living dead - that is, living spirits of the dead. Like the undead dead, portrayed in movies.

Then, we can look at the dead dead, and we do see in Scriptures something about Abrahams bosom, or there specifically being conscious life after death.

The parable Jesus gave?
Abraham's bosom is not a place, but a representation, and when the Bible refers to a bosom position, it is a favored position, so when one asks the question, "Whom does Abraham represent, in the parable, it is clear Jesus is referring to his father, and thus, to be in Abraham's bosom, Lazarus - the common people, gained a favored position with God, while the rich man - the Pharisees and Scribes, an unfavorable position.

This is seen in the purpose for the illustration, and whom the illustration targeted.
Jesus said, in the preceding verses Luke 16:9-15

9 “And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon, that when you fail, they may receive you into an everlasting home. 10 He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much. 11 Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? 12 And if you have not been faithful in what is another man’s, who will give you what is your own?​

​

13 “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”​

​

14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him. 15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.​

This parable does not relate to the physical dead, and does not contradict the scriptures in the OP.
What contradicts the scriptures, are the interpretations, or misrepresentation of this parable.

That said - the living dead in Sheol were set free upon Christ's death on the cross, so it's not there anymore in the same form in our day.

Did the scriptures not say only those putting faith in Christ John3:16, and is it not the case that some remain in their sin, and will die in their sin, because of not putting faith in Jesus John 3:36?
That's what the scriptures say.

John 9:41

Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin. But since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains."​

Some are not free. How is this related to the OP, though?

The living know they will die... This is true for the live living, not just about it, it's in our bones. This is the judgement, because it is, we feel it more acutely.

Not everyone knows this, it's not in their bones, they are the living dead. (Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die)

Dead people have no wisdom since they don't know God. Proverbs 2:6 Proverbs 9:10

So there's a lot that can be unpacked according to the context it might have been given.

I don't think this relates to the OP.
I don't want to get side tracked to other things.
If I am missing the relation, perhaps you can explain, and I'll try to see how it relates.

 

[Hazelelponi]

that is, living spirits of the dead.

There are. The Bible tells us that in the story of Abraham's bosom in Luke.

Jesus resurrected from the dead as the first fruits of many brothers...

If you don't believe in the living dead you don't believe in Scripture.

 

[Job 33:6]

If one believes that one's "spirit" goes to heaven when they die .... then it opens the door of us to falling pray to familiar spirits which are demons ... also could cause one to seek out a "witch" or "medium" thinking one can contact a deceased person (such as King Saul did)

I actually experienced this myself .... not too long after my husband had passed ... I was sitting on the couch and all of a sudden a image of him appeared to me and I mean to tell you at the time it looked unbelievably real ... I commanded the spirit to leave in the name of Jesus and it left and never returned again ... but I'm telling you for about 5 minutes or so I was amazed and perplexed.

Don't be deceived ... the dead really are dead ... dormant in the grave.

The thing about this is, while I agree that demons can appear in spirit form in the Bible, in 1 Samuel, the Bible doesn't say that the spirit is of a demon. Rather it refers to the spirit as Samuel.

 

[CoreyD]

Do you know what an elohim is?

I did quote the text before, with the rendering.
It's in the OP. And the woman said to Saul, “I saw [a god - Heb. elohim] ascending out of the earth.”

@CoreyD

Let's look at what it says.

Saul identifies a medium. Which are people that speak to spirits.

Saul asks the medium to bring up "a spirit" from the earth.

The medium asks, "who shall I bring up for you?"

Saul says "Samuel". Now Samuels physical body isn't even in this town. Samuel was buried miles away, so we know that it's not talking about a physical body.

1 Samuel 28:3-4, 6-7 ESV
[3] Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. And Saul had put the mediums and the necromancers out of the land. [4] The Philistines assembled and came and encamped at Shunem. And Saul gathered all Israel, and they encamped at Gilboa.
[6] And when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, either by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets. [7] Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.”

Samuel was buried in Ramah. Saul is over in Gilboa.

The medium summons Samuel and says "I see an elohim" which is a spirit. That's what elohim are in the old testament.

Whoa. Hold on.
The medium summons Samuel?
The medium summons Samuel? are you kidding me J?
That is not in the scriptures.

And Samuel speaks to Saul and asks "why have you brought me up?

@CoreyD
And your response is:
"Well it must be talking about samuels physical body"

Now aren't you the one doing the lying, and on top of that, resorting to malicious slander???

Ok, well, when you're ready to be honest about the Bible, I'll be here.

This spirit is not of God.
You need to seriously consider who is speaking through you.

First, let's establish the lie.
Nowhere in this thread, nor any other, have I said "Well it must be talking about samuels physical body"
So that lie is exposed... and lies are from whom? Yes, Satan.

Next. Am I honest about the Bible?
Well, I haven't said anything against the Bible, that you can show.
I did not, for example, say, Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul. You did.
I am seeking confirmation on if you disagree that the text does not say Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul.

I do not see "Samuel's spirit" in that bold red text.
Do you?
Are you not claiming that Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul?

Why do you attack me for asking these question?
If you are able to answer, just answer. Are you afraid of something?

It's a simple question, is it not?

 

[CoreyD]

There are. The Bible tells us that in the story of Abraham's bosom in Luke.

Jesus resurrected from the dead as the first fruits of many brothers...

If you don't believe in the living dead you don't believe in Scripture.

 

[CoreyD]

The thing about this is, while I agree that demons can appear in spirit form in the Bible, in 1 Samuel, the Bible doesn't say that the spirit is of a demon. Rather it refers to the spirit as Samuel.

You have yet to show me "spirit of Samuel in the verses.
I'm still asking. If you are willing to answer.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

The text states, that Samuel spoke with Saul. It does not say that Samuel was not dead at the time.

 

[Job 33:6]

I did quote the text before, with the rendering.
It's in the OP. And the woman said to Saul, “I saw [a god - Heb. elohim] ascending out of the earth.”

Yes. And an elohim is a spirit. The woman is saying that she sees a spirit coming up from beneath the earth.

I do not see "Samuel's spirit" in that bold red text.
Do you?
Are you not claiming that Samuel's spirit spoke to Saul?

Let's look at what it says.

1 Samuel 28:7-8, 11, 13-15 ESV
[7] Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.” [8] So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.”
[11] Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”
[13] The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god [elohim] coming up out of the earth.” [14] He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. [15] Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.”

Are you not able to see what I have in bold? Maybe you don't know what an elohim is?

Saul identifies a medium. Which are people that speak to spirits.

Saul asks the medium to bring up "a spirit" from the earth.

The medium asks, "who shall I bring up for you?"

Saul says "Samuel". Now Samuels physical body isn't even in this town. Samuel was buried miles away, so we know that it's not talking about a physical body.

1 Samuel 28:3-4, 6-7 ESV
[3] Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. And Saul had put the mediums and the necromancers out of the land. [4] The Philistines assembled and came and encamped at Shunem. And Saul gathered all Israel, and they encamped at Gilboa.
[6] And when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, either by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets. [7] Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.”

Samuel was buried in Ramah. Saul is over in Gilboa.

The medium summons Samuel and says "I see an elohim" which is a spirit. That's what elohim are in the old testament.

And Samuel speaks to Saul and asks "why have you brought me up?

@CoreyD
And your response is:
"Well it must be talking about samuels physical body"

Ok, well, when you're ready to be honest about the Bible, I'll be here.

And yes, Samuels spirit spoke to Saul. That's what it says.

 

[Job 33:6]

This was the argument between the Samaritan's and the Jews isn't it?

I think Jesus settled that.

I am not aware of Jesus ever saying that this spirit was not Samuel. The Bible plainly says that it was Samuel.