LGBT group proposes dissolving UMC into 4 new denominations.

[Funky Slippers]

The theologically progressive UM-Forward submitted a proposal known as the New Expressions Worldwide Plan, which if implemented would create four different Methodist denominations: a “Traditionalist Methodist Church,” a “Moderate Methodist Church,” a “Progressive Methodist Church,” and a “Liberation Methodist Church.”

Thoughts?

 

[abysmul]

Grew up in an United Methodist church, in a part of the country where there are Methodist churches everywhere. The congregations are frequently about a 10th of the size they were when I was a child in the 70s. I can only speak for myself and only from my experiences and the experiences of friends and family who've made a mass exodus from the Methodist church: too late.

I've worked for a company for the past 23+ years that have ties with many churches in the region and I can list multiple Methodist churches that once had Sunday attendance numbers in the 200s that now have attendance in the 20s.

The organization's rush to the liberal side has contributed greatly to this, IMHO.

 

[redleghunter]

The theologically progressive UM-Forward submitted a proposal known as the New Expressions Worldwide Plan, which if implemented would create four different Methodist denominations: a “Traditionalist Methodist Church,” a “Moderate Methodist Church,” a “Progressive Methodist Church,” and a “Liberation Methodist Church.”

Thoughts?

Saw it coming.

United Methodist progressives gather to discuss LGBTQ-friendly plan

United Methodist Court Keeps Core of New LGBT Legislation

United Methodists Tighten Ban on Same-Sex Marriage and Gay Clergy

United Methodist bishops want to let pastors, conferences decide on LGBT clergy

News in theology that's debated:The UMC commissions first non-binary trans* clegy

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The theologically progressive UM-Forward submitted a proposal known as the New Expressions Worldwide Plan, which if implemented would create four different Methodist denominations: a “Traditionalist Methodist Church,” a “Moderate Methodist Church,” a “Progressive Methodist Church,” and a “Liberation Methodist Church.”

Thoughts?

....and just when I'm contemplating whether or not to move toward Methodism. It figures! I can see one split being perhaps useful, but a four way split? Oh, c'mon!

Besides, what really would be the difference between a "Moderate" church and a "Progressive" one, I wonder?

 

[redleghunter]

The theologically progressive UM-Forward submitted a proposal known as the New Expressions Worldwide Plan, which if implemented would create four different Methodist denominations: a “Traditionalist Methodist Church,” a “Moderate Methodist Church,” a “Progressive Methodist Church,” and a “Liberation Methodist Church.”

Thoughts?

Here's a link to what you posted:

N.E.W. Plan would create 4 denominations | United Methodist News Service

 

[redleghunter]

What would be the difference between a Moderate church and a Progressive one, I wonder?

The variety of pot luck dinners?

If you go the Reformed route there is no such thing as 'pot luck' dinners. We call it "pot Providence" meals.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The variety of pot luck dinners?

If you go the Reformed route there is no such thing as 'pot luck' dinners. We call it "pot Providence" meals.

Well, if we take the following into account, maybe the Progressive is more for me!

A progressive dinner (US) or safari supper (UK) is a dinner party with successive courses prepared and eaten at the residences of different hosts. Usually this involves the consumption of one course at each location.
Progressive dinner - Wikipedia​

 

[redleghunter]

Grew up in an United Methodist church, in a part of the country where there are Methodist churches everywhere. The congregations are frequently about a 10th of the size they were when I was a child in the 70s. I can only speak for myself and only from my experiences and the experiences of friends and family who've made a mass exodus from the Methodist church: too late.

I've worked for a company for the past 23+ years that have ties with many churches in the region and I can list multiple Methodist churches that once had Sunday attendance numbers in the 200s that now have attendance in the 20s.

The organization's rush to the liberal side has contributed greatly to this, IMHO.

The UMC churches in Texas are mostly conservative and orthodox in their beliefs. Church parking lots are full at the local UMC near me. So it seems the ones sticking to their Biblical principals and their church doctrine are doing just fine.

 

[redleghunter]

Well, if we take the following into account, maybe the Progressive is more for me!

A progressive dinner (US) or safari supper (UK) is a dinner party with successive courses prepared and eaten at the residences of different hosts. Usually this involves the consumption of one course at each location.
Progressive dinner - Wikipedia​

Never understood why they are called "pot luck." There is usually a sign up roster where the dish is indicated. If not everyone could bring corn casserole.

 

[abysmul]

The UMC churches in Texas are mostly conservative and orthodox in their beliefs. Church parking lots are full at the local UMC near me. So it seems the ones sticking to their Biblical principals and their church doctrine are doing just fine.

That would be logical to me. Many of the former Methodists here joined Baptist and more conservative independent congregations.

 

[Arcangl86]

....and just when I'm contemplating whether or not to move toward Methodism. It figures! I can see one split being perhaps useful, but a four way split? Oh, c'mon!

Besides, what really would be the difference between a "Moderate" church and a "Progressive" one, I wonder?

The Moderate church would allow LGBT inclusion to be a congregational decision. Progressive would mandate it across the denomination.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The Moderate church would allow LGBT inclusion to be a congregational decision. Progressive would mandate it across the denomination.

....Gee. If Progressive means it's mandatory across the denomination, I'm wondering just what exactly the Liberal section would be: if one dissents, then one [such as I] has a choice of torture and beating in a Communist style prison OR a firing squad at the whim of the pastor?

 

[Arcangl86]

....Gee. If Progressive means it's mandatory across the denomination, I'm wondering just what exactly the Liberal section would be: if one dissents, then one [such as I] has a choice of torture and beating in a Communist style prison OR a firing squad at the whim of the pastor?

I mean there is no difference then forbidding it across the denomination. And the Liberation branch is new to this proposal, so I have no idea what it is about.

 

[redleghunter]

....Gee. If Progressive means it's mandatory across the denomination, I'm wondering just what exactly the Liberal section would be: if one dissents, then one [such as I] has a choice of torture and beating in a Communist style prison OR a firing squad at the whim of the pastor?

You can follow how the military progressively allowed social secular changes. At one time it was illegal to be gay in the military; then it was don't ask, don't tell, then it changed to openly serving. A SGM I know said "I'm getting out before they make it mandatory."

 

[seeking.IAM]

Never understood why they are called "pot luck." ...

I think they're called pot luck because whether the dish is good or bad is dependent upon your luck. As a Methodist PK when I went off to college I promised mom I'd still go to church but I'd never go to another pot luck again. I've kept the first promise and come pretty close to keeping the second.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You can follow how the military progressively allowed social secular changes. At one time it was illegal to be gay in the military; then it was don't ask, don't tell, then it changed to openly serving. A SGM I know said "I'm getting out before they make it mandatory."

Lol! Well.........................while I'm not pro-LGBT any more than I am pro-Hugh Hefner, I'm definitely not going to say that, as a Christian, I'm all that big on wasting my time with going up to my LGBT neighbors, particularly those who are at least attempting to follow Christ in some way, and letting them know that "Hey, uh....this might not be the ideal way to carry on one's private life before the face of the Lord, y'know!"

So, I don't know. I'm kind of tired of how everything has been going ever since the Schism of 1054 ... [And I wasn't even there and it tires me to think about it...]

I guess I'll have to pray about my possible future affiliation with the Methodists, especially since I don't really fully harbor Wesleyan theology but rather a more open, even quasi-Pascalian or Kierkegaardian reference point in my faith.

 

[PloverWing]

It's not clear to me why "Progressive" and "Liberation" would need to be two separate groups. I acknowledge that "social gospel" is 19th century language and "intersectional justice" is 21st century language, but it seems to me that the two groups would have a great deal in common.

 

[redleghunter]

....Gee. If Progressive means it's mandatory across the denomination, I'm wondering just what exactly the Liberal section would be: if one dissents, then one [such as I] has a choice of torture and beating in a Communist style prison OR a firing squad at the whim of the pastor?

Maybe Beto could explain this one to us?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Maybe Beto could explain this one to us?

I'm sorry to say that I had to look up "Beto" to see what he is about. Now I have some idea, and yeah, maybe he can explain it. Or maybe not. (...I'm giving a Political Purple **sigh**)

 

[civilwarbuff]

Maybe Beto could explain this one to us?

I think we already have his explanation.....'I'm coming for your guns' and 'Churches that don't support LGBQTXYZ will lose their tax exempt status'......