Lets talk about wives being submissive to their husbands.....

[GreenEyedLady]

For me, being submissive means knowing when to be quiet. If I can present my opinions and then let dh make the decisions things go so much better. It really comes down to trusting him to look at all angles and make the best choice.

I hightlighted, If I can present my opinions. I am struggling with this at the moment. I am under conviction that we should NOT present our opinions. That is not being submissive. It seems like there are times when DH makes a decision and I want to add my 2cents, he gets upset. Now that I am thinking about it, I am really trying to manipluate his decision. I am not allowing him to be a leader.

If you have any advice on how to reshift the balance and put me more receptive for submissiveness I would appreciate it.

I know far too many women in your shoes. I use to be one of them. This is why I am strugging now because I used to HAVE to lead, now they hubbie is taking charge, I have contol issues.
Is your husband saved? Is he active in a local church?
This verse comes to mind.

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

This verse would sting any man who is not in full leadership of the home.
What is providing? What is a mans idea of providing?
Well, my preacher preaches that a man should lead in finances, food for the family, raising up the children in the Lord and most importantly disicpline.
We are suppose to help them do this, but not be the leader. If a man is not being a "provider" God calls these men an infidel.
infidel

G571 apistos (2)
apistos ap'-is-tos from 1 (as a negative particle) and 4103; (actively) disbelieving, i.e. without Christian faith (specially, a heathen); (passively) untrustworthy (person), or incredible (thing):--that believeth not, faithless, incredible thing, infidel, unbeliever(-ing).


OUCH! Man that is harsh!
Well I can see why any woman might not respect her husband if they were not being the leader. I use to not respect my husband mostly because he was not being a leader all the way. He would just bring home the money and that was it. I now realize I need to just LET GO and GIVE UP and GIVE IN.
I do respect him more, he has proven himself more to me and to God.
I thank my Lord for helping us through the hard times. Its been a rough road but with God its been a good rough road.
GEL

 

[Savedsis]

I know just how you feel Greeneyedlady...Because I use to lead and now he leads...I was the active church member....He took me every sunday and never complained....Now he is saved and is trustee and treasurer of the church.....So I see where you are coming from and it does make a difference....

 

[Gwenyfur]

I found this thread very interesting. I also struggling with this submissive thing. What happens when being a submissive wife isn't available to you? I've been married for 9 years (tomorrow) and have a truly wonderful husband. But I sadly have to say that I am very aware that I am the head of the household. I have taken this position not necessarily by choice, but by force. My husband totally doesn't want the responsibility of finances, disciplining the children and decision making. He has bailed completely from that arena of the household and left it on my shoulders. While I am extremely intellegent and very good at managing the bills and have performed tremendous feets of wonder within our household (not to be boastful), but I'm getting tired. And then the worst part is then he'll complain that I'm controlling! He's the one who put me in control! It is very hard to be submissive when you the person in charge. It's equally hard to shift responsibility back over to him, we tried a few years back with devastating results (I can't express how devastating).

So when I read about how submissiveness is about respect - it's true - I'm missing that element. I don't respect that he's given me all the responsibility. I don't respect that he's not seeking God for proper guidance for our household. I don't respect that he blames me for his own short comings. I would love to tell him that I respect him, but he is very aware of the fact that I do not. When we argue, which is oddly enough, rarely, that is the point that is always brought up - that he knows i don't respect him.

Wow, I just read over this and thought of erasing it. But I think I'll leave it. I realize it comes off a little harsh. I love my husband dearly I'm just very aware of our households unbalance. I'm finding it very overwhelming and frustrating. If you have any advice on how to reshift the balance and put me more receptive for submissiveness I would appreciate it.

Oh man have I been there....

My hubby wasn't always a man I could respect. I absolutely grew to despise him at one point. He was a lush that cost us our home, our security, he wanted to "be the man" without having to be a man. heh. We were separated for more than a year because of it.

That changed when he gave his life to God. It changed even further when we started looking at reconciling our marriage. Oh boy did it change. When he started to take the reigns I bucked at it worse than a wild mustang. UGH...I mean really..how could I trust this man that had cost us everything....That's really where it comes down to your faith in God. But, I agree that you can't follow him into bankruptcy. Unfortunately in our lives respect isn't given it's earned.

It sounds to me as if he's not living in a godly fashion? Is he saved? Does he attend church regularly? Is he involved in any men's studies? If these answers are 'no' then, it's past time to start fighting the battle with the most powerful weapon in your arsenol....prayer....

God granted victory in our marriage for one reason, well perhaps 2...(who really knows the heart of God)
1- It was His will that our marriage should be mended
2- It was the faithful prayers that I lifted up daily on behalf of my hubby and our family.

I understand where you are, and my heart breaks for you. I know how weary you become. How absolutely trapped you feel. I will pray for you and your hubby, that he becomes the man God created him to be, and that you get to be the wife He wanted you to be

God Bless

 

[Gwenyfur]

This is an unmarried Christian teenage guy's opinion, but I hope you'l accept it.

All followers of Christ are in fact charged with submission to their brethren; "And be not drunken with wine, wherein is riot, but be filled with the Spirit;...subjecting yourselves one to another in the fear of Christ." (Ephesians 5:18,21)

However, wives have been more specifically charged with submission to their husbands as a part of the punishment assigned to Eve at the fall; "Unto the woman He said, ' I will greatly multiply thy pain and thy conception; in pain thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.' " (Genesis 3:16)

Submission is the acceptance of your husband's will over your own when the two cannot reach agreement; "Wives, be in subjection unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

Submission will not make a wife her husband's walking mat if she's married a Godly man; "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;" (Ephesians 5:25)

Submission should be a trait that all Christians display, for Christ has promised such to them that make peace; "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God." (Matthew 5:9)

May the Lord of Glory guide your feet;
Caleb

LOL well said!

Just don't club your future wife over the head with it

Women struggle with it in more ways than one. We're raised to believe we can do it...anything whatever...all the false teachings of feminism.... Tread lightly, but firmly

God Bless

 

[P_G]

A mans role is to be the spirtual head of the household

It is for him to be leading a time of family worship
or devotions now this can take on many forms but it is for him to do.

It is a mans role to lead by example to work on his walk and be a G-dly man
of G-dly ways. He should be seen reading his bible and praying. Speaking words of grace and truth no coarse speach should be comming from him nor coarse ways.

It is a mans duty to pray over his family to pray over his wife and his children. To teach his sons to be G-dly men and to teach his daughters to only date G-dly men.

It is a mans duty to pack the family up in the car ot walk them to the church on Sunday EVERY Sunday. It is a mans job to see that all are in Bible study and youth group.


And it is a wommans duty to submit to that spirtual authority which was given by G-d to her husband. Not to wrest it away from him but rather to be guided by him.

In my expereiance the problem lies not with women who will not be submisive

It is with men who will not be men


Unashamedly

Pastor George

 

[gheetam]

Is there is no such thing in the Christian marriage world as co-ownership and to decide things together or have mutual agreement? If there is a major decision, isn't it better to pool resources from both husband and wife prayfully come together and seek God for guidance. Why can't both manage the finances and take turns to lead in the family worship?

I am not married - really I dont know how this submission thing works either!!!

There is only one Head in a household and that's God.

 

[Heatherondo]

Oh Lord help me. This is the hardest word in the bible for me. Submission. I was not raised to be submissive so its very hard for me. I want to know what each mans idea of submission is. I want to know from ladies how they submit to their husbands and when its really hard what they do.
What I DON'T want to hear or talk about is what everyone thinks submission is NOT. Meaning, "well, submission is not about beging ordered around. I already tell myself that stuff. TELL ME WHAT IT IS, not what it is not.
Feel free to use real life examples or just made up stuff.
GEL
I am very curious to see how far this thread will go and how many men VS women will reply and ALSO who will be the most honest with thier answers.

My understanding of what submission is supposed to be, in the original language the verses were written in, is to mean "come along side, not ahead or behind"

Not to lead your husband, but not to be subserviant either.

IN these verses it also says for a husband to love their wife as Christ loves the church. he gave up his life for the church (us). That does not include expecting your wife to be submissive in the way that we believe the word submissive means today. (servant, below, slave, etc)

I firmly believe women and men have their roles in marriage as well as in life, roles God created is to do, that we are better designed at and that men cant do womens roles as wellas women and vice versa.

 

[Crazy Liz]

OK, I haven't participated in this thread yet (and it might be wiser for me to stay out now ) but I'm going to go back to the OP. I might say some things that will be surprising to some of you, but I will try to address this question on GEL's terms:

Oh Lord help me. This is the hardest word in the bible for me. Submission. I was not raised to be submissive so its very hard for me. I want to know what each mans idea of submission is. I want to know from ladies how they submit to their husbands and when its really hard what they do.

Well, I can give one example. About 8 or 9 years ago, we had a wonderful life. The best it had ever been. We had two children in Christian school/preschool, two fulfilling careers, a beautiful new home, good friends who gave each other mutual spiritual support, etc. Life was good.

Then my husband came under attack by his employer. They changed his job assignment to being full-time in an area that had been his sideline, and closed the department he had headed. He went into a depression. He felt like he was going to die. He even thought of suicide. His identity had been taken away from him.

An opportunity came up for him to work in his field again, at the other end of the state, at lower pay and inferior benefits. I began negotiating with my employer for a transfer, and my husband took the new job. At my suggestion, he asked his previous employer for a leave of absence, so if the new job didn't work out, he could come back in 6 months. My employer offered me a transfer, but I needed to stay at the main office for another 6 months. We lived in two households for 6 months, meeting up in one place or the other most weekends, putting us in debt, when we had nearly mastered our finances to the point of being debt-free except for our home. Before my H had to decide whether or not to resign his old job, my employer withdrew the transfer.

My husband said he'd die if he had to go back to the old job, so I moved the family here. Our son, a 7th grader, went into a very severe depression and has still not recovered academically. My career went into the toilet. I'm just now starting to come to terms with the loss of identity I have suffered as a result of the move, and how similar it is to the crisis that had made my H feel suicidal. I am more flexible than he is, so I adapted and submitted, and I didn't commit suicide, and neither did our children, although all of us have suffered major depression since the move.

What is helping me put my old career behind me and begin looking toward the future now is my H's supportiveness of my calling into ministry. This is very ironic because the church we joined after our move has taken a turn to the right, and does not recognize or support my calling in any way. When the pastor preached a sermon on women's submission a few months ago, my H and I had an interesting conversation about how, while we both disagreed with what the pastor had to say, when it had come right down to it, I had submitted to my H in every major decision of our lives.

I agree with those who have posted about submission being mutual. My H and I have always practiced this. (I might say more about this later, in response to another post) Yet, looking backward, the big things went his way. The kids and I have paid a price for it, too. Of course, if I hadn't submitted and he had committed suicide, I can't say we would have been better off.

So that is my story of submission, in all its ambivalence and ambiguity, and as unfinished as it is. There is a sense in which many men tend to be more rigid and many women tend to be more flexible. I am definitely more flexible and adaptable than my H. When he couldn't bend without breaking, I bent for him. As a result, I bent to the breaking point myself. I am just beginning to see little glimmers of hope. Women's submission is no panacea to all the ills and problems of a marriage. Marriages will have ills and problems no matter what.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I hightlighted, If I can present my opinions. I am struggling with this at the moment. I am under conviction that we should NOT present our opinions. That is not being submissive. It seems like there are times when DH makes a decision and I want to add my 2cents, he gets upset. Now that I am thinking about it, I am really trying to manipluate his decision. I am not allowing him to be a leader.

GEL, I hope you won't mind if I point out that you asked in the OP that nobody say what submission is not.

Now that you have opened the door, I would like to make a comment. I think you are over-generalizing here. We each have a different story and different issues we have to struggle with. Given your story, as you have posted it in this thread, I can completely understand how you might feel convicted by God to take on silence as a spiritual discipline right now, specifically in not stating your opinions to your H.

I think God convicts us at different times to take on particular disciplines, but these need not be generalized as if they must be convictions for all people or for all time. A month or two ago I posted in a couple of threads that God had convicted me, for the time being, to take on a discipline of silence in a particular situation, in that I was convicted not to enter into hypothetical discussions about what people should or should not do, but only give advice in real-life situations. I learned a lot from that discipline. I am no longer convicted to follow that discipline absolutely, but I have learned a lot about the benefits of holding my peace in certain kinds of discussions.

I think it might be good for you to consider whether you have made absolute something that really is a discipline God has imposed on you for a particular time. Let me try to demonstrate. My husband wants to know what I think about things. He usually asks my opinion about any decision that is important when there is enough time to think about pros and cons and take some time to make a decision. For me to refuse to give him the benefit of my thoughts would be unsubmissive, would it not?

I don't think giving or withholding one's opinions is necessarily submissive or unsubmissive. In your present situation, withholding your opinions is helping you learn more about what it means to be submissive, and is also helping your husband practice some skills your opinions have perhaps hindered in the past. Don't assume that all women should withhold their opinions from their husbands or that you will always need to withhold yours. It sounds to me like this is a discipline God has imposed on you for the time being. It may be lifted after you have learned what God has to teach you from it. I completely respect the discipline God has apparently imposed on you, and I can see how it could be of value to you and your family at this point in time.

 

[Filia Mariae]

Oh Lord help me. This is the hardest word in the bible for me. Submission. I was not raised to be submissive so its very hard for me. I want to know what each mans idea of submission is. I want to know from ladies how they submit to their husbands and when its really hard what they do.

When we actually look at the word "submission" it means, "under the mission of." So in order to understand how we are to be under the mission of our husbands, we need to know what his mission is, right?

Scripture tells us:

[bible/]Ephesians 5:25-30[/bible]

Men's mission is to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. They are called to give themselves up for their wives. How did Christ love the Church? Christ poured Himself out entirely for us, the Church, taking the form of a slave. The Church is called to receive this gift freely, in its entirety without reserve or exclusion and to make this gift fruitful.

When Christ poured Himself out for us, the Church received His Holy Spirit. The Spirit is to guide us into truth, to make our charitable works fruitful, to give us gifts of love and wisdom and piety, etc. The point is, Christ's total self-gift is offered to the Church and we are called to receive that total self-gift with total openness to Him and His will for what fruit may come of His gift to us.

Since Paul's letter to the Ephesians tells us that the husband/wife relationship is analogous to Christ's relationship to the Church, we can conclude that husbands are called to give themselves up for their wives and wives are called to be open to the gifts their husbands offer them, receiving their husbands without reserve or hesitation.

 

[mesue]

...
What I DON'T want to hear or talk about is what everyone thinks submission is NOT. Meaning, "well, submission is not about beging ordered around. I already tell myself that stuff. TELL ME WHAT IT IS, not what it is not.
...

Submission is following God's word.
Alot of women get uptight about the "S" word.
My husband has never asked me to sin. He's never asked me to do anything that he would not do himself. And he's never powertripped on me. He loves me as Christ loved the church. Do you know how hard a thing that is during PMS? He has to answer for how he leads this family. I don't want him to have to answer for a bullheaded wife. I want the Lord to say to him:
His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Matthew 25:21

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I think it might be good for you to consider whether you have made absolute something that really is a discipline God has imposed on you for a particular time. Let me try to demonstrate. My husband wants to know what I think about things. He usually asks my opinion about any decision that is important when there is enough time to think about pros and cons and take some time to make a decision. For me to refuse to give him the benefit of my thoughts would be unsubmissive, would it not?

I don't think giving or withholding one's opinions is necessarily submissive or unsubmissive. .

Thank you for your opinion Liz. Let me clarify something. I give my husband my opinion when he wants it. What aggervates him and from other women I know, what aggervates thier husbands is when a desision is made and the wife wants to talk him out of his decision with her opinions. My husband is hardly a dictatory but many times when I thought we were going the wrong way because of a decision he made, such as you feel you are now, in the long run I end up seeing God's will right smack in front of me.

One thing I have noticed in this discussion. This is geared towards all the women who posted. It seems those of you who believe woman can be called to preach and lead a church also believe that submission is equal between husband and wife. Is this true?

 

[TwinCrier]

To me, submission is a form of trust. I trust my husband to mnake good choices for our family and to take my concerns into consideration, yet I am humble enough to accept his leadership.

 

[Gold Dragon]

When I tell my wife to go into the kitchen and bake me a pie, she bakes two. But then again she loves to bake so much that I never have to tell her to.

 

[Abiel]

When I observe some relationships between husbands and wives, I see wives who are just plain nasty and belittling of their husbands. They are constantly running their men folk down. And I see this across the generations.
I think the submission thing might be about restoring mutuality and respect to such damaged relationships. Where there is mutuality and respect, submission as an issue hardly figures. And yes I acknowledge this is a huge over simplification on my part. It's just that now think about it, I reckon that out of my immediate circle, only two married ladies I know always speak of their husbands in loving respectful ways. I would hope to include myself in that number. I focus on his positives (easy because there is very little negative, even after 11 years). Perhaps all these husbands really are very bad at the job, but I somehow doubt it. But there certainly seems to be a lot of discontented wives.

 

[Crazy Liz]

When I observe some relationships between husbands and wives, I see wives who are just plain nasty and belittling of their husbands. They are constantly running their men folk down. And I see this across the generations.
I think the submission thing might be about restoring mutuality and respect to such damaged relationships. Where there is mutuality and respect, submission as an issue hardly figures. And yes I acknowledge this is a huge over simplification on my part. It's just that now think about it, I reckon that out of my immediate circle, only two married ladies I know always speak of their husbands in loving respectful ways. I would hope to include myself in that number. I focus on his positives (easy because there is very little negative, even after 11 years). Perhaps all these husbands really are very bad at the job, but I somehow doubt it. But there certainly seems to be a lot of discontented wives.

You make a very good point, Abiel. I certainly try to speak to my husband and about him in loving and respectful ways, but still truthfully. In a forum like this, tone and body language don't come across. While I have said some things about my husband that were not entirely positive, I still love and respect him. I hope I didn't say anything in a way that would diminish that. Lots of things we may do can have long-term effects, and I do not mean to disrespect my husband by saying truthfully that I have experienced a lot of emotional pain and we have had some serious difficulties with our children as a result of a particular decision. Every story of wifely submission does not have a happy ending. My story doesn't have any ending at all yet. It's far from sorted out in my mind. All I can say now is that love and respect do not require that I hide or deny my pain.

I agree with Abiel that love and respect can be restored in damaged relationships, and I will go farther and say loving, respectful and good relationships still have problems, sometimes serious ones. That spirit of love and respect can continue to exist even as we acknowledge and even question the problems and their causes.

 

[Abiel]

You make a very good point, Abiel. I certainly try to speak to my husband and about him in loving and respectful ways, but still truthfully. In a forum like this, tone and body language don't come across. While I have said some things about my husband that were not entirely positive, I still love and respect him. I hope I didn't say anything in a way that would diminish that. Lots of things we may do can have long-term effects, and I do not mean to disrespect my husband by saying truthfully that I have experienced a lot of emotional pain and we have had some serious difficulties with our children as a result of a particular decision. Every story of wifely submission does not have a happy ending. My story doesn't have any ending at all yet. It's far from sorted out in my mind. All I can say now is that love and respect do not require that I hide or deny my pain.

I agree with Abiel that love and respect can be restored in damaged relationships, and I will go farther and say loving, respectful and good relationships still have problems, sometimes serious ones. That spirit of love and respect can continue to exist even as we acknowledge and even question the problems and their causes.

I did say it was an over simplification, but be assured Crazy Liz, your love and respect for your husband is very apparant in your posting. I have it easy (for now).

 

[Crazy Liz]

Thank you for your opinion Liz. Let me clarify something. I give my husband my opinion when he wants it. What aggervates him and from other women I know, what aggervates thier husbands is when a desision is made and the wife wants to talk him out of his decision with her opinions.

That's really not something I can even imagine because once we have made a decision, we live with it. We may evaluate how well it worked and try to make corrections if a decision works out badly. I just truly can't think of any situations I would frame the way you have.

My husband is hardly a dictatory but many times when I thought we were going the wrong way because of a decision he made, such as you feel you are now, in the long run I end up seeing God's will right smack in front of me.

I'm sorry. I didn't say I feel we are going the wrong way. I don't know yet. I know I'm going through some hardships, and our kids have gone through some, too. If I'd been able to foresee them when we made the decision to go along with his wishes, I might not have agreed so quickly. In a few more years, I may see God's will in it. I think it's unlikely I would have gone into ministry if I hadn't lost my previous career. It is yet to be seen how this will work out. How far into the future we can foresee, and how accurately, affects all our choices in life. Because my husband had lost his way at that time, he couldn't see any future at all at the time, and needed a way out. After our move, I found myself feeling the same way. I know God is still present in all of this. I haven't gotten to where I can see God's will, exactly, in the sense of a grand plan this all fits in, yet.

One thing I have noticed in this discussion. This is geared towards all the women who posted. It seems those of you who believe woman can be called to preach and lead a church also believe that submission is equal between husband and wife. Is this true?

It's true for my husband and me.

 

[FaithWeaver]

The Bible says that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the Church. If this is the case, then the wife shouldn't have a problem with being submissive, according to the Bible. Both partners need to be under the will of God for this to work out perfectly. I don't have a problem being submissive to my husband.

My personal list of ways to be submissive is:
-Trusting your spouse to make the right decissions. Of course, he still needs to talk about things with you first. You are his help meet.
-Making love to him when you are able to. The headache excuse is not good. Give in, it makes you closer.
-Keeping your home clean, meals cooked, and raising your kids in the Lord. This doesn't mean that he can't help.
-Most importantly, let him be your Spiritual Leader!

It's funny, the more the two of you are submissiveto the Lord and to each other, the more freedoms you have to do what you want or to get your way.

For me, sometimes being submissive means biting my lip and letting him do what he wants. Of course, he does the same.

 

[mafiedler]

In the Bible, alot happens in a marriage between man and woman. First the man is called to love his wife as Christ loved the church.....no easy task. God knew men would have trouble with this, so he lay down "rules" to help. Because a woman who is truly loved, will reflect love back into their lives, their home, their children. The womans call is to respect her husband. Thats an easy one to figure out, because men need respect in order to feel "right". Okay, once you've got that down, lets go onto submission. The Bible calls for BOTH to be submissive to one another. Yes, it does talk more about the wives submission to her husband, but it says they are both to be submissive to one another. (I wish I could memorize better, I'd tell you the verse)