Kundalini and Christian symbolism?

[juvenissun]

I just say the Nembutsu. Nothing more. That's the extent of my Buddhism.

That is a religion big enough for most people.

 

[TheOldWays]

That is a religion big enough for most people.

 

[juvenissun]

Don't do that. What I said is not a good thing. In fact, it is a very bad situation.

 

[TheOldWays]

Don't do that. What I said is not a good thing. In fact, it is a very bad situation.

I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[SusanD.]

From my understanding Kundalini is a Hindu concept, which I find to be the oldest religion in the world. I am wondering if Christianity is incorrect. The fall of man described in Genesis says a serpent deceived Eve into eating the forbidden fruit to become like God. Kundalini is described as a serpent that brings spiritual enlightenment. Is it possible there is truth in this and Christianity is just an oppressive religious system to prevent him from reaching enlightenment? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Hi.
First, as a seeker I would encourage you to study the life and teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ as found in the Holy Bible, and to ensure that you are in the company of those who have experienced the new birth in Christ Jesus (born again Christians). Biblical Christianity is not oppressive - the Lord Jesus actually said
"... and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free" (John 8:32). Please also look at the amazing prayer Jesus made to the Father shortly before His crucifixion (John 17).
There is no evidence that Hinduism is the 'oldest religion in the world' though I have heard this claim before. If you compare the Biblical accounts of creation from Genesis chapter 1 with the concepts of god in Hinduism, there is a stark difference. The very nature of God in the Holy Bible is very different to the many 'gods' of Hinduism, such as the elephant god ganesh, the destroyer god shiva, the monkey god etc etc.
God does want us to be 'englightened' - in His way, not in a man-made way. Jesus taught us to be 'born again' of the Spirit of God to enter the kindgom of heaven. I have experienced the blessings of a personal relationship/communion with God through faith in Jesus over the past several years so far since becoming a believer in 1997.
As for the kundalini matter, I have looked into this issue and I have seen several video clips of people who practice yoga and experience what is called 'kundalini awakening' when their bodies start spontaneously jerking by an unseen force - this is the spirit behind the kundalini power - it is a demon spirit. The new testament of the Holy Bible gives instances of when demons were encountered, they are real and deceive people into chasing after 'mystical inner experiences' for enlightenment but in the long run will cause people to turn away from the light that is in Christ Jesus and will do them harm. See this for a bit more about dangers of kundalini:- Madness, Depression, Heart Palpitations Are “Common” side effects of Kundalini Yoga | Women of Grace

May God bless you with peace and understanding in Christ.

 

[Rajni]

So I am not really sure how to start this out, or if this is even the right board. For several years I have been following a stream of Christianity known as Bethel mostly by Bill Johnson and others like him. However, some sects within the Christian community describe this as a Kundalini inspired sect and believe it isn't Christian. I say all that because I am unfamiliar with Kundalini, but I did find some of the symbolism, such as the serpent, intriguing considering some of symbolism used in the Bible. From my understanding Kundalini is a Hindu concept, which I find to be the oldest religion in the world. I am wondering if Christianity is incorrect. The fall of man described in Genesis says a serpent decieved Eve into eating the forbidden fruit to become like God. Kundalini is described as a serpent that brings spiritual enlightenment. Is it possible there is truth in this and Christianity is just an oppressive religious system to prevent him from reaching enlightenment? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Given that Hinduism is likely the oldest religion, it isn't a stretch to conclude that some of the belief systems that came after it might have adopted adopt some of its concepts. Or, at the very least, religions that have striking similarities are tapped into the same Divine source at those points.

I'm ambivalent about the whole Kundalini thing. I recall back when I was a much more doctrinaire, dogmatic Christian battling against (what I considered) unorthodox beliefs wherever I found them (I fancied myself a Heresy Hunter ), discovering that some were making connections between Kundalini and the wild stuff that took place in the Toronto Blessing (I won't guarantee accuracy of reporting, but one example is linked here).

I've dialed down on my dogmatism tremendously since then, so I don't recall, but does the Bethel church have any connection to the Toronto Blessing?

 

[Arthra]

religions that have striking similarities are tapped into the same Divine source at those points.

I can agree with that!

 

[SusanD.]

Given that Hinduism is likely the oldest religion, it isn't a stretch to conclude that some of the belief systems that came after it might have adopted adopt some of its concepts. Or, at the very least, religions that have striking similarities are tapped into the same Divine source at those points.

Hi.
Why do you think Hinduism is the oldest religion, what is your source of authority please? In any case, Biblical Christianity ought not to be adopting Hindu or other concepts because we do not need to. Our Creator God, who is all-powerful, all-seeing, all-wise, has revealed Himself to us in coming to this earth and being the sacrificial Lamb of God to redeem us from our sins, and He conquered sin and death then sent the Holy Spirit - the Helper/Comforter to be with us and empower us. Having the Spirit of God in us empowering us and having the Holy Bible which is powerful are all we need surely...

Peace be with you.

 

[Rajni]

Hi.
Why do you think Hinduism is the oldest religion, what is your source of authority please?

• Fowler: "probably the oldest religion in the world" (Fowler 1997, Hinduism: Beliefs and Practices, Sussex Academic Press, p. 1)

• Klostermaier: The "oldest living major religion" in the world (Klostermaier 2007, A Survey of Hinduism: Third Edition, SUNY Press, p. 1)

• Kurien: "There are almost a billion Hindus living on Earth. They practice the world's oldest religion..." "Multiculturalism and American Religion: The Case of Hindu Indian Americans". Social Forces. Johns Hopkins University Press. 85 (2): 723–741. doi:10.1353/sof.2007.0015

• Bakker: "it [Hinduism] is the oldest religion". FL Bakker (1997). "Balinese Hinduism and the Indonesian State: Recent Developments". Bijdragen tot de Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde. Brill. Deel 153, 1ste Afl.: 15–41. JSTOR 27864809
  
  
• Noble: "Hinduism, the world's oldest surviving religion, continues to provide the framework for daily life in much of South Asia." Noble, Allen (1998). "South Asian Sacred Places". Journal of Cultural Geography. Routledge. 17 (2): 1–3. doi:10.1080/08873639809478317

Other sources that may be needed on the topic of Hinduism in general can be found here.

In any case, Biblical Christianity ought not to be adopting Hindu or other concepts because we do not need to.

As I mentioned earlier, another possibility is that religions that have striking similarities are tapped into the same Divine source at those points, much like a room full of pianos tuned to the same Fork will be in tune with each other. It doesn't necessarily have to mean that the newer religions, such as Christianity, outright borrowed from the religions that were here first. It also doesn't mean that they absolutely didn't on some points. Who knows - I wasn't there. That the similarities are there is plain to see, though how they got there is open to speculation.

There are also some striking similarities between verses in the Bible and those from the (much older) Bhagavad Gita.

And I certainly cannot presume (anymore, thankfully) that my chosen set of beliefs are The Correct Ones On All Points™, that there'd be no room for other beliefs to have it "right" at least on some things. I have to exercise at least a little humility in my approach to this.

 

[SusanD.]

• Fowler: "probably the oldest religion in the world" (Fowler 1997, Hinduism: Beliefs and Practices, Sussex Academic Press, p. 1)

• Klostermaier: The "oldest living major religion" in the world (Klostermaier 2007, A Survey of Hinduism: Third Edition, SUNY Press, p. 1)

• Kurien: "There are almost a billion Hindus living on Earth. They practice the world's oldest religion..." "Multiculturalism and American Religion: The Case of Hindu Indian Americans". Social Forces. Johns Hopkins University Press. 85 (2): 723–741. doi:10.1353/sof.2007.0015

• Bakker: "it [Hinduism] is the oldest religion". FL Bakker (1997). "Balinese Hinduism and the Indonesian State: Recent Developments". Bijdragen tot de Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde. Brill. Deel 153, 1ste Afl.: 15–41. JSTOR 27864809
  
  
• Noble: "Hinduism, the world's oldest surviving religion, continues to provide the framework for daily life in much of South Asia." Noble, Allen (1998). "South Asian Sacred Places". Journal of Cultural Geography. Routledge. 17 (2): 1–3. doi:10.1080/08873639809478317

Other sources that may be needed on the topic of Hinduism in general can be found here.


As I mentioned earlier, another possibility is that religions that have striking similarities are tapped into the same Divine source at those points, much like a room full of pianos tuned to the same Fork will be in tune with each other. It doesn't necessarily have to mean that the newer religions, such as Christianity, outright borrowed from the religions that were here first. It also doesn't mean that they absolutely didn't on some points. Who knows - I wasn't there. That the similarities are there is plain to see, though how they got there is open to speculation.

There are also some striking similarities between verses in the Bible and those from the (much older) Bhagavad Gita.

And I certainly cannot presume (anymore, thankfully) that my chosen set of beliefs are The Correct Ones On All Points™, that there'd be no room for other beliefs to have it "right" at least on some things. I have to exercise at least a little humility in my approach to this.

 

[SusanD.]

Hi.
From research others have done, I share this:-
"...even among scholars of the writings of the Vedas, there is some dispute about when the actual writings of the Vedas were written. Some of them might date back to 1500 BC, but some Biblical scholars date the Exodus of the Hebrews around this time. Conservative Biblical scholars (and I) hold that Moses was the primary author of the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible.) This would date the Pentateuch as being as old as some of the Vedas. But it is true that Christianity was started with Christ or, technically, after his resurrection. The New Testament was written in the first century. So, in one sense, one might claim that Hinduism is older than “CHRISTianity” because it dates back before Christ. [However, Christianity’s roots are in Judaism, which, again, traces its roots all the way back to the first man and woman.]" author of article: Dave Sterrett © 2009 Probe Ministries.
I share this to state that Hinduism probably isn't the oldest religion, but the main point is whether practices of eastern mysticism/kundalini should mix with Christian practice. No. Christ Jesus has shown us that we need to follow Him for eternal life and peace and He has equipped us spiritually by the indwelling Spirit of God who comes to dwell in and empower each one who puts their trust in the Lord Jesus. There is no similarity between kundalini and the Holy Spirit, which can be understood by studying what has been revealed to us in the Holy Bible.

Peace be with you.

 

[Rajni]

So, in one sense, one might claim that Hinduism is older than “CHRISTianity” because it dates back before Christ.

I agree.

I had mentioned earlier that there are similarities between some passages in the bible and those in the Bhagavad Gita preceding it:

Bhagavad Gita: I am exceedingly dear to the wise man; he also is dear to me. (Ch. VII. 17)
New Testament, Bible: He that loveth me shall be loved by my father and I will love him. (John XIV. 21)

Bhagavad Gita: I am the way, supporter, lord, witness, abode, refuge, friend. (Ch. IX. 18)
New Testament, Bible: I am the way the truth and the life. (John XIV. 6.) I am the first and the last. (Rev. 1. 17)

Bhagavad Gita: I never depart from him, he never departs from me. (Ch. VI. 30)
New Testament, Bible: He dwelleth in me and I in Him. (John VI. 57)

Bhagavad Gita: They who worship me with true devotion are in me and I in them. (Ch. VI. 29)
New Testament, Bible: I in them, thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one. (John XVII. 23)

Bhagavad Gita: Be assured that he who worships me, perishes not. (Ch. IX. 31)
New Testament, Bible: He that believeth in me shall never perish, but shall have eternal life. (John III. 5)

Bhagavad Gita: I am the beginning and the middle and the end of things. (Ch. X. 20)
New Testament, Bible: I am Alpha, Omega, the beginning and the ending. (Rev. I. 8)

Bhagavad Gita: I will deliver thee from all sin; do not grieve. (Ch. XVIII. 66)
New Testament, Bible: Son, be of good cheer, thy sins be forgiven. (Matt. IX. 2)

Bhagavad Gita: What sacrifice, almsgiving, or austerity is done without faith is evil. (Ch. XVII. 28)
New Testament, Bible: Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. (Rom. XIV. 23)​

the main point is whether practices of eastern mysticism/kundalini should mix with Christian practice

Whether it should or shouldn't, it apparently did. If Christianity can be influenced by things they way it is today, there's little doubt in my mind that it was influenced by things way-back-when.

And again -- a point I've made previously that seems to get glossed over, probably from an underlying fear in some hearing it that God really does speak to/through those other "unworthy" religions as much as He speaks to/through Christianity -- it may not even be external influences from other religions that create the similarities, but rather those religions simply getting the same Divine messages from Him on those similar points. Like I said, a room of pianos all tuned to the same fork are going to be in tune with each other. Granted, this suggests that maybe Christianity isn't God's one and only favorite, but then I don't think His mission was to form an exclusive social club to begin with, so this really shouldn't even be an issue.

 

[Rajni]

Back to the OP:

@Ultima4257 - I'm still curious; do you know if the Bethel Church has any ties to the Toronto Blessing?

 

[SusanD.]

I had mentioned earlier that there are similarities between some passages in the bible and those in the Bhagavad Gita preceding it:

Hi.
Anyone can take some pious verses from their religious texts and seek to make them seem the same in meaning/equal to or even superior than what the Holy Bible says...

And again -- a point I've made previously that seems to get glossed over, probably from an underlying fear in some hearing it that God really does speak to/through those other "unworthy" religions as much as He speaks to/through Christianity -- it may not even be external influences from other religions that create the similarities, but rather those religions simply getting the same Divine messages from Him on those similar points. Like I said, a room of pianos all tuned to the same fork are going to be in tune with each other. Granted, this suggests that maybe Christianity isn't God's one and only favorite, but then I don't think His mission was to form an exclusive social club to begin with, so this really shouldn't even be an issue.

No fear in me that God may be speaking to/through other religions simply because God has already revealed what we need to know from the ancient evidences in the Holy Bible. God did not create religions - He created us to be in fellowship with Him and to do His will on earth - see Genesis in the Bible and keep reading to see what went wrong... the tower of Babel mentioned is because of mankind developing their own way of worship that was outside of God the Creator's will and so He scattered them away from eachother.
Biblical Christianity is not an "exclusive social club" - if you really look at the Person, works and character of Christ Jesus from a sincerely seeking mindset, then you will see that He did not instigate a "social club" but calls us to follow HIM for salvation. See John 1 in the new testament. The gospel message is about sinners being reconciled to a holy and merciful creator God, and when we are reconciled and follow His word, we can test our spiritual experiences and come to understand what is of Christ and what is not. As the discussion thread is about 'kundalini and Christian symbolism" so I conclude in saying that the exclusivity of Christ Jesus telling us that HE is the way of salvation and to follow HIM, not follow or borrow spiritual experiences from Hinduism or other belief systems, means that if anyone seeks to add to His word or change His word to suit any interfaith belief is not being true to Him.

Peace to you.

 

[Rajni]

Anyone can take some pious verses from their religious texts and seek to make them seem the same in meaning/equal to or even superior than what the Holy Bible says...

Considering that the Gita came before the NT, this doesn't make sense. But thank you for your input.