Joe Hagmann dead at 36

[Yanni depp]

I'm really surprised. I haven't listened to he Hagmann report for at least a year. And i just was curious, thought I'd see what's up, and Joe hagmann the son of Doug hagmann died this past Saturday of an alleged heroine OD. Just 3-4 days a go.

Really bizarre. How do you feel about that scenario? A professed Christian, who struggled with drugs and alcohol dying at 36 of an alleged OD? Some might say maybe a false conversion. Some might say he went to hell. Some might say he's in heaven.... I'm not sure if there's any other options at that point. I want to believe he was a true Christian. And I want to believe he's in Heaven.

 

[devin553344]

I'm really surprised. I haven't listened to he Hagmann report for at least a year. And i just was curious, thought I'd see what's up, and Joe hagmann the son of Doug hagmann died this past Saturday of an alleged heroine OD. Just 3-4 days a go.

Really bizarre. How do you feel about that scenario? A professed Christian, who struggled with drugs and alcohol dying at 36 of an alleged OD? Some might say maybe a false conversion. Some might say he went to hell. Some might say he's in heaven.... I'm not sure if there's any other options at that point. I want to believe he was a true Christian. And I want to believe he's in Heaven.

I won't judge him and say he went to heaven or hell. But I'm sure his family is suffering the loss.

 

[Shadowprophet]

None of Us is perfect, And Try as we might, We all still have faults. I had a friend, Who died in 2016.

This man was literally a manufacturer of methamphetamine. He was addicted.
Jesus didn't come to heal the healthy. And to be honest I've always thought Turning one's back on someone who does not have God is one of the worst things we can do. Because Through Us may be the only way those people can experience God. It's important that we Love others, And Personally, I believe it's important that we love those who do not or can not love themselves. With this being said, I can think of no unforgivable sin "Save Blasphemy" And even in the sake of Blasphemy, It doesn't guarantee someone will go to hell for that.

God is a Just God, God is a loving God, If this man Helped many people find God, Then that wasn't a bad thing. No, It was a good thing. His faults only show that none of us are perfect.
I can testify, That Just because someone does drugs, That does not make them a stereotypical bad person. That's why they call it a Drug Problem or even a disease.

My friend was hooked on a Drug that he would often Cry literal tears because he could not bear to be without it. I've seen through experience that Sometimes, A person who uses drugs, They aren't doing it because it's cool or because it's a sin. Sometimes, People do drugs, Literally because Doctors got them hooked on pain killers and when the pain killers ran out the only escape for them was illegal drugs.

Don't Judge him harshly, Because Love doesn't Judge harshly. My Friend Quinton, Cried with me When I had to bury my Daughter, My Friend Quinton Gave me a home when My wife cheated on me and I had no home. Drugs don't necessarily make a person a bad person, What's in a person's heart determines that.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I can identify with your journey - I suggest you prioritise merging into a physical fellowship of believers where you feel His love. Ask folks to pray for you - take time to soak up His love and find healing. Take the time to find strength and be easy on yourself. Wounded soldiers need care for a time.

 

[Yanni depp]

I won't judge him and say he went to heaven or hell. But I'm sure his family is suffering the loss.

Yes his dad was keeping his composure on air quite incredibly.

I thought someone would have some scripture to back up an opinion on the subject.

 

[devin553344]

Yes his dad was keeping his composure on air quite incredibly.

I thought someone would have some scripture to back up an opinion on the subject.

I'm not an expert in scripture but I have read the bible a few times and don't recall any scripture relating to self induced death from drugs or alcohol. Noah was a drunk for some time though: Genesis 9:20-21. While Lot was sinned against while drunk Genesis 19:30-38.

So while there's scriptural record of people abusing alcohol, I'm afraid drugs were not written of I think. But if they died from drinking (which does happen to youth sometimes and older people for that matter) then I will be less judgmental.

 

[Yanni depp]

I'm not an expert in scripture but I have read the bible a few times and don't recall any scripture relating to self induced death from drugs or alcohol. Noah was a drunk for some time though: Genesis 9:20-21. While Lot was sinned against while drunk Genesis 19:30-38.

So while there's scriptural record of people abusing alcohol, I'm afraid drugs were not written of I think. But if they died from drinking (which does happen to youth sometimes and older people for that matter) then I will be less judgmental.

Not being judgmental at all. Just wondering what the Bible says. I have addiction problems too.

 

[devin553344]

Not being judgmental at all. Just wondering what the Bible says. I have addiction problems too.

I was able to break thru my addiction problems by attending and being active in church. Does that work for you?

 

[Lily76_]

i have gone through drug and alcohol relape myself in the last few weeks you think your untouchable you just want to numb the pain your in its selfish and i am happy to say am getting better going to NA / AA . its could have killed me just like its kills millions weather through OD or HIV hepc etc this is an epidemic

 

[JCFantasy23]

Very sad when someone loses their life to addiction. That said, there are plenty of Christians close to God who are still struggling with addiction - being 'addiction free' isn't one to signs of being a true follower of Christ.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Not being judgmental at all. Just wondering what the Bible says. I have addiction problems too.

I can look and give you some various scripture if you'd like.

Whenever something rises to the level of addiction then it's a sin in that the object of your addiction becomes higher or more important than God in your heart and life. In that manner it's an idol, and something your putting in the place in your life that belongs to God.

It's also something you can't control, because your in bondage to it, so it may not be as bad as what you might do happily or with joy. Most addicts beat themselves up, usually literally hating the object of their addiction because of its control over their lives.

Therefore addiction may not get in the middle of (or prevent) a believers salvation. You can be truly saved, working toward your salvation, and falter with various sins or issues...

John Piper did a little Q&A about willful sin and those passages in Hebrews. It's good to listen to (or read, as you can also read the transcript) because He shows you two categories of sins and sinning.

How Does ‘Willful Sinning’ Threaten My Salvation?

it's very well explained and I enjoyed the teaching. I'm sure you could benefit from it too.

I smoked for 32 years, (totally addicted) and while it took some time after I was saved I was finally able to break the addiction. But, if I should falter and fall, all I need to do is get back up again, through the help of Christ..

This life is a trial and we didn't all come to Christ free of addiction. But, through Christ I do believe there is hope... as Jesus said, through Him we are free indeed.

Its more a matter of believing that.. from my experience.

 

[Yanni depp]

None of Us is perfect, And Try as we might, We all still have faults. I had a friend, Who died in 2016.

This man was literally a manufacturer of methamphetamine. He was addicted.
Jesus didn't come to heal the healthy. And to be honest I've always thought Turning one's back on someone who does not have God is one of the worst things we can do. Because Through Us may be the only way those people can experience God. It's important that we Love others, And Personally, I believe it's important that we love those who do not or can not love themselves. With this being said, I can think of no unforgivable sin "Save Blasphemy" And even in the sake of Blasphemy, It doesn't guarantee someone will go to hell for that.

God is a Just God, God is a loving God, If this man Helped many people find God, Then that wasn't a bad thing. No, It was a good thing. His faults only show that none of us are perfect.
I can testify, That Just because someone does drugs, That does not make them a stereotypical bad person. That's why they call it a Drug Problem or even a disease.

My friend was hooked on a Drug that he would often Cry literal tears because he could not bear to be without it. I've seen through experience that Sometimes, A person who uses drugs, They aren't doing it because it's cool or because it's a sin. Sometimes, People do drugs, Literally because Doctors got them hooked on pain killers and when the pain killers ran out the only escape for them was illegal drugs.

Don't Judge him harshly, Because Love doesn't Judge harshly. My Friend Quinton, Cried with me When I had to bury my Daughter, My Friend Quinton Gave me a home when My wife cheated on me and I had no home. Drugs don't necessarily make a person a bad person, What's in a person's heart determines that.

I'm incredibly sorry for your loss...
I can only imagine it takes an incredibly strong person to endure that.

 

[Yanni depp]

I was able to break thru my addiction problems by attending and being active in church. Does that work for you?

Still working on finding a church that doesn't study prosperity gospel or practice alleged apostasy. I miss having a church

 

[Yanni depp]

I can look and give you some various scripture if you'd like.

Whenever something rises to the level of addiction then it's a sin in that the object of your addiction becomes higher or more important than God in your heart and life. In that manner it's an idol, and something your putting in the place in your life that belongs to God.

It's also something you can't control, because your in bondage to it, so its not as bad as what you would do happily or with joy. Most addicts beat themselves up, usually literally hating the object of their addiction because of its control over their lives.

So it's not something that may literally get in the middle of a believers salvation. You can be truly saved, working toward your salvation, and falter with various sins or issues...

John Piper did a little Q&A about willful sin and those passages in Hebrews. It's good to listen to (or read, as you can also read the transcript) because He shows you two categories of sins and sinning.

How Does ‘Willful Sinning’ Threaten My Salvation?

it's very well explained.. and I enjoyed the teaching. I'm sure you could benefit from it too.

I smoked for 32 years, (totally addicted) and while it took some time after I was saved I was finally able to break the addiction. But, if I should falter and fall, all I need to do is get back up again, through the help of Christ..

This life is a trial and we didn't all come to Christ free of addiction. But, through Christ I do believe there is hope... as Jesus said, through Him we are free indeed.

Its more a matter of believing that.. from my experience.

You gave me a lot to think about, and I think it adequately answers the OP, thank you for your help, I really do appreciate it, blessings !

 

[Joy]

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