Jesus and the missing women

[Jutta2]

So was the name of the TV show that I saw in the Second German Television (ZDF). This four women of the Bible were presented: Maria Magdalena (the first apostle), Phoebe (a deacon), Lydia (head of a congregation), and Junia, who, like the church father John Chrysostom said in the 4th century; were "outstanding among the apostles" .

At YouTube you can watch this video here (unfortunally in German)

Why are women not valued in Christianity, Judaism and Islam to the same extent, as Jesus did? Why conceal the Catholic Church to this day, that women in the early Church of Christ, had just as men Church offices? And why was from the female Apostein Junia, the male Junias (in the 10th century)?

 

[St_Worm2]

To get you started, click here: Junia/Junias Section 7.2b should be of particular interest. This is part of Dr. Grudem's book called Evangelical Feminism and Biblical Truth.

 

[Jutta2]

To get you started, click here: Junia/Junias Section 7.2b should be of particular interest. This is part of Dr. Grudem's book called Evangelical Feminism and Biblical Truth.

Not only Junia / Junias is the subject, but all the missing women of early Christianity. And with them all the offices, that these women have had. The deaconess Phoebe for example, the leader of a house church, Lydia, Priscilla / Priskia who taught Paul along with her husband Aquilla, or Mary Magdalene, the first apostle and close confidante of Jesus. Mary Magdalene was created as a sinner, made a prostitute. From a Pope in the 6th century, the same century in which disappeared the last Office for Women, the Office of the deaconess in the catholic church. Coincidence?

 

[JackRT]

Not only Junia / Junias is the subject, but all the missing women of early Christianity. And with them all the offices, that these women have had. The deaconess Phoebe for example, the leader of a house church, Lydia, Priscilla / Priskia who taught Paul along with her husband Aquilla, or Mary Magdalene, the first apostle and close confidante of Jesus. Mary Magdalene was created as a sinner, made a prostitute. From a Pope in the 6th century, the same century in which disappeared the last Office for Women, the Office of the deaconess in the catholic church. Coincidence?

Christianity appeared in a time and place that was extremely patriarchal. Jesus and the very early church seem to have been mostly gender blind but by the time the pastoral epistles were written just a century later, patriarchy was right back in charge.

 

[St_Worm2]

Not only Junia / Junias is the subject, but all the missing women of early Christianity. And with them all the offices, that these women have had. The deaconess Phoebe for example, the leader of a house church, Lydia, Priscilla / Priskia who taught Paul along with her husband Aquilla, or Mary Magdalene, the first apostle and close confidante of Jesus. Mary Magdalene was created as a sinner, made a prostitute. From a Pope in the 6th century, the same century in which disappeared the last Office for Women, the Office of the deaconess in the catholic church. Coincidence?

Hi Jutta, as I said, "to get you started" I'm sorry, but I've been especially busy this week because of the holiday festivities, so that's why I only mentioned Junia in my 1st reply. BTW, I hope you had a wonderful Christmas

I'd like to discuss the subject further, so let's talk about each and every woman you mentioned.

Phoebe (Romans 16:1) - was a deaconess (most churches have female deacons or "servants of the church" today). The RCC has a number of women in that role called "nuns", right? The, "house church", met at Prisca and Aquila's home, not Phoebe's, correct? (Romans 16:1-5 .. see especially v5).

Lydia (Acts 16:14-15) - what office did Lydia hold?

Mary Magdalene - what official "office" do you believe she held? I realize some have called her the "apostle to the Apostles" in the sense that she was the one who first brought the good news about His resurrection to them, but we don't see her "called" into service by the Lord, do we?

As for the RCC, they ordained deaconesses until the 11th century, not the 6th, but there have never been woman in the office of elder or priest (teaching/ruling). And as I said above, as far as women in the "role" of deaconesses, IOW, servants of the church, I don't believe any church has more women in that role than the RCC does (nuns).

Prisca and Aquila - "taught" Paul Do you have a chapter/verse reference on that one? (he calls them "fellow workers" and they both risked their lives to save his .. Romans 16:3-4). Apparently no one "taught" St. Paul but One (Galatians 1:1; Galatians 1:11-12)

Yours and His,
David

 

[Job8]

Why are women not valued in Christianity,..

This is a false feminist accusation against Christianity. Women are definitely valued in Christianity, but the roles of men and men in the home and in the church are distinct, and it is God who has put those distinctions in Scripture. If that appears to be patriarchal, so be it. Mary Magdalene was NOT an apostle, Phoebe was NOT a deacon, Lydia was NOT an elder, and Junia was NOT an apostle. Why? Because God has not given women leadership roles in the home or in the church, and this is plainly stated in Scripture.

 

[Jutta2]

This is a false feminist accusation against Christianity. Women are definitely valued in Christianity, but the roles of men and men in the home and in the church are distinct, and it is God who has put those distinctions in Scripture. If that appears to be patriarchal, so be it.

You're making the same mistake that all those who read only the words of the Bible, but do not understand its meaning. In order to understand why things are in the Bible; you have to consider the historical and textual context, and to deal with the original words.
Thanks to modern biblical scholarship; we now know more about it than 100 years ago.

Mary Magdalene was NOT an apostle,

In the Russian Orthodox Church, some very old Christian churches in the Middle East, which is for centuries, yes, for two millennia, believed. If it is wrong, where this belief comes because, if not the fact that it was originally so?
I believe the main problem lies in the term "apostle" because all known to all twelve men think. Only, in ancient times, the term "apostle" was understood differently.

Phoebe was NOT a deacon,

Phoebe was a deacon. Only, the term "deacon / deaconess" as we use it today, was something else, as it was understood at that ancient time.

Lydia was NOT an elder,

I do not know what you mean by "elder". I just said that as a seller of purple, Lydia had the head of a house church, and the first Christian baptized woman in Europe (according to the Bible). She had passed her house church. There were no hierarchical structure, as is common in churches today.

Junia was NOT an apostle.

There are finds of ancient writings evidencing; a fragment is e.g. admire at the Vienna University Library. Found at Nag Hamadi.

Why? Because God has not given women leadership roles in the home or in the church, and this is plainly stated in Scripture.

I do not agree. And if it is true, then it was due to those times, and came by the will of men, not the will of God!

 

[JackRT]

We also know that there were a number of female disciples of Jesus - Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, the sisters Mary and Martha, Joanna, Susanna and Salome are all named. Whenever the female disciples are mentioned in the Bible, Mary Magdalene is always the first named. In the literary tradition of the time the first named is always the most important. Mary Magdalene is even named ahead of Mary his mother. Even the name Mary Magdalene may be informative. Mary "of Magdala" seems not to be correct since there is no solid historical or archaeological evidence that there ever was such a town. Another possible interpretation of the word "Magdalene" is that it is derived from an Aramaic word meaning roughly "the most important". Early Christian writers have sometimes referred to her as "Mary the Great" and also as the “Apostle to the Apostles”. Why should such importance be attached to this woman?

Christian, particularly Catholic tradition, has been very unkind to Mary Magdalene. She has been variously identified as the woman taken in adultery or the woman who washed Jesus' feet with her tears and dried them with her hair or possibly both. She is portrayed as a great sinner who became a great saint. The Gospel of John says that Jesus cast seven demons from her. Some might jump to the conclusion that demonic possession is indicated here. However, we must examine this in the context of the times. Disease was thought to have been caused by invisible demons. We know today that this is wrong - disease is actually caused by invisible germs or viruses. It seems that we have renamed the demons! John is simply saying that Jesus cured her of some unspecified disease. As for the charge that she was a prostitute, that first appeared in a sixth century sermon by Pope Gregory.

There is a strong tradition in the south of France that Mary Magdalene was the first Christian missionary to that region. This is attested to in a stained glass window in the Cathedral of Marseilles that depicts Mary consecrating a bishop!