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Jesus and John the baptist

IbelieveGod

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I have two related questions…
did Jesus and John the Baptist know they were related through their mothers?
secondly
i was under the impression John knew Jesus was the Christ as he baptized him calling him the lamb of God… yet in prison he asks …are you the one we been waiting for or should we look for another?
 

Clare73

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I have two related questions…
did Jesus and John the Baptist know they were related through their mothers?
Yes. . .how could they not?
secondly
i was under the impression John knew Jesus was the Christ as he baptized him calling him the lamb of God… yet in prison he asks …are you the one we been waiting for or should we look for another?
John had only his opinion to support his thinking.
 
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prodromos

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i was under the impression John knew Jesus was the Christ as he baptized him calling him the lamb of God… yet in prison he asks …are you the one we been waiting for or should we look for another?
Despite the fact that Christ had come, John still had disciples who had remained with him, perhaps out of some misplaced loyalty, instead of themselves following Christ. John couldn't simply tell them to go follow Christ because it would have been out of obedience to him and not because they desired to follow Christ. So John sent his disciples to ask Jesus the question, not because he had doubts himself, but in order for his disciples to be able to decide for themselves and follow Christ.

As John said, "He must increase, I must decrease". John was there to prepare the way for others to find Christ. Christ is the way, the truth and the life. John is simply the forerunner.
 
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fhansen

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I have two related questions…
did Jesus and John the Baptist know they were related through their mothers?
secondly
i was under the impression John knew Jesus was the Christ as he baptized him calling him the lamb of God… yet in prison he asks …are you the one we been waiting for or should we look for another?
John was human. His head needed confirmation about what his heart already somehow knew.
 
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d taylor

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prodromos

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St John Chrysostom homily on Matthew 11

"Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Jesus, he sent two of his disciples, and asked Him, saying, Art thou He that should come, or do we look for another?”
But Luke saith, they also told John of the miracles, and then he sent them. However, this contains no matter of difficulty, but of consideration only; for this, among other things, indicates their jealousy towards Him.
But what follows is completely among the controverted points. Of what nature then is this? Their saying, “Art Thou He that should come, or do we look for another?” That is, he that knew Him before His miracles, he that had learned it of the Spirit, he that heard it of the Father, he who had proclaimed Him before all men; doth he now send to learn of Him, whether it be Himself or no? And if yet thou didst not know that it is surely He, how thinkest thou thyself credible, affirming as thou dost concerning things, whereof thou art ignorant? For he that is to bear witness to others, must be first worthy of credit himself. Didst thou not say, “I am not meet to loose the latchet of His shoe?” Didst thou not say, “I knew Him not, but He that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and resting upon Him, the same is He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost?” Didst thou not see the Spirit in form of a dove? didst thou not hear the voice? Didst thou not utterly forbid Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized of Thee?” Didst thou not say even to thy disciples, “He must increase, I must decrease?” Didst thou not teach all the people, that “He should baptize them with the Holy Ghost and with fire?” and that He “is the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world?” Didst thou not before His signs and miracles proclaim all these things? How then now, when He hath been made manifest to all, and the fame of Him hath gone out everywhere, and dead men have been raised, and devils driven away, and a display made of so great miracles, dost thou after this send to learn of Him?
What then is the fact? Were all these sayings a kind of fraud: a stage play and fables? Nay, who that hath any understanding would say so? I say not, John, who leaped in the womb, who before his own birth proclaimed Him, the citizen of the wilderness, the exhibitor of the conversation of angels; but even though he were one of the common sort, and of them that are utterly outcast, he would not have hesitated, after so many testimonies, both on his own part and on the part of others.
Whence it is evident, that neither did he send as being himself in doubt, nor did he ask in ignorance. Since no one surely could say this, that though he knew it fully, yet on account of his prison he was become rather timid: for neither was he looking to be delivered therefrom, nor if he did look for it, would he have betrayed his duty to God, armed as he was against various kinds of death. For unless he had been prepared for this, he would not have evinced so great courage towards a whole people, practised in shedding blood of prophets; nor would he have rebuked that savage tyrant with so much boldness in the midst of the city and the forum, severely chiding him, as though he were a little child, in hearing of all men. And even if he were grown more timid, how was he not ashamed before his own disciples, in whose presence he had so often borne witness unto Him, but asked his question by them, which he should have done by others? And yet surely he knew full well, that they too were jealous of Christ, and desired to find some handle against Him. And how could he but be abashed before the Jewish people, in whose presence he had proclaimed such high things? Or what advantage accrued to him thereby, towards deliverance from his bonds? For not for Christ’s sake had he been cast into prison, nor for having proclaimed His power, but for his own rebuke touching the unlawful marriage. And what child so silly, what person so frantic, but that so he would have put on himself their character?
2. What then is it which he is bringing about? For that it belongs not to John to have doubt hereupon, no nor to any ordinary person, nor even to one extremely foolish and frenzied; so much is evident from what we have said. And now we have only to add the solution.
For what intent then did he send to ask? John’s disciples were starting aside from Jesus, and this surely any one may see, and they had always a jealous feeling towards Him. And it is plain, from what they said to their master: “He that was with thee,” it is said, “beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come unto Him.” And again, “There arose a question between John’s disciples and the Jews about purifying.” And again they came unto Him, and said, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but Thy disciples fast not?” For as yet they knew not who Christ was, but imagining Jesus to be a mere man, but John greater than after the manner of man, were vexed at seeing the former held in estimation, but the latter, as he had said, now ceasing. And this hindered them from coming unto Him, their jealousy quite blocking up the access. Now so long as John was with them, he was exhorting them continually and instructing them, and not even so did he persuade them; but when he was now on the point of dying, he uses the more diligence: fearing as he did lest he might leave a foundation for bad doctrine, and they continue broken off from Christ. For as he was diligent even at first to bring to Christ all that pertained to himself; so on his failing to persuade them, now towards his end he does but exert the more zeal.
Now if he had said, “Go ye away unto Him, He is better than I,” he would not have persuaded them, minded as they were not easily to be separated from him, but rather he would have been thought to say it out of modesty, and they would have been the more rivetted to him; or if he had held his peace, then again nothing was gained. What then doth he? He waits to hear from them that Christ is working miracles, and not even so doth he admonish them, nor doth he send all, but some two (whom he perhaps knew to be more teachable than the rest); that the inquiry might be made without suspicion, in order that from His acts they might learn the difference between Jesus and himself. And he saith, Go ye, and say, “Art thou He that should come, or do we look for another?”
But Christ knowing the purpose of John, did not say, I am He; for this would again have offended the hearers, although this was what it naturally followed for Him to say, but He leaves them to learn it from His acts. For it saith, “when these were come to Him, then “He cured many.” And yet what congruity was there, that being asked, “Art thou He,” He should say nothing to that, but should presently cure them that were sick; unless it had been His mind to establish this which I have mentioned? Because they of course would account the testimony of His deeds surer, and more above suspicion than that of His words.
Knowing therefore, as being God, the mind with which John had sent them, He straightway cured blind, lame, and many others; not to teach him (for how should He him that was convinced), but these that were doubting: and having healed them, He saith,
“Go and show John again those things which ye do hear and see; the blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, and the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached unto them.” And he added, “And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me;”implying that He knows even their unuttered thoughts. For if He had said, “I am He,” both this would have offended them, as I have already said; and they would have thought, even if they had not spoken, much as the Jews said to Him, “Thou bearest record of Thyself.” Wherefore He saith not this Himself, but leaves them to learn all from the miracles, freeing what He taught from suspicion, and making it plainer. Wherefore also He covertly added His reproof of them. That is, because they were “offended in Him,” He by setting forth their case and leaving it to their own conscience alone, and by calling no witness of this His accusation, but only themselves that knew it all, did thus also draw them the more unto Himself, in saying, Blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.” For indeed His secret meaning was of them when He said this.
 
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timf

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i was under the impression John knew Jesus was the Christ as he baptized him calling him the lamb of God… yet in prison he asks …are you the one we been waiting for or should we look for another?

This reflects both John's humanity (doubt) and the common perception at the time of the earthly kingdom. Most would have disregarded biblical promises (if they were even aware of them) as folklore. Few would have understood the prophecies. Even Nicodemus was ignorant of the water and Spirit described in Ezekiel 36. The few that actually anticipated a kingdom would have anticipated a Messiah that would come by force and establish a kingdom for them.
 
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Clare73

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John was human. His head needed confirmation about what his heart already somehow knew.
John leaped in the womb of Elizabeth when she came into the presence of the pregnant Mary.
 
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fhansen

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John leaped in the womb of Elizabeth when she came into the presence of the pregnant Mary.
Yes, and Peter was present at and witnessed the Transfiguration-and yet would deny Jesus three times later. I think John just wanted to hear it from Jesus's lips. JMO.
 
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prodromos

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Yes, and Peter was present at and witnessed the Transfiguration-and yet would deny Jesus three times later. I think John just wanted to hear it from Jesus's lips. JMO.
He'd heard it from the Father and seen the Holy Spirit come down on Jesus. Christ Himself dispels any notion that John had any doubts after his disciples had left.
"What did you go to see, a reed blown by the wind?"
John knew he was about to die and yet there were still disciples clinging to him instead of following Christ. He had to make sure they recognised who Jesus was and not form a sect of their own after his own death.
 
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