Is Your Religion Making You A Better Person?

[JERRY C]

IS YOUR RELIGION MAKING YOU A BETTER PERSON?


This grew out of a discussion with my wife over some church people seemingly not better than some un-churched (read religious vs. irreligious, if you desire). Maybe it would be interesting to take a head count (unscientific) and calculate a ratio?! As an illustration, it seems that divorce statistics are similar for the religious and irreligious, at least in the American scene. Compare sexual activity levels, between churched teens and un-churched? How about materialism (read -- hoarding toys) or hedonism? I sat this afternoon and tried to develop an outline to pursue thoughts about this. I am still trying to think this through. May never completely figure this out? Any input? (maybe tie your comments to the outline numbers? eg. 1.3, 4.2) (see # 7 and # 8 especially)


[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] 1. Purpose of religion? The goal? The desired end?
1.1. “Religion vs. relationship”?! (let’s not quibble over the word “religion” for the sake of this discussion?!)
1.2. Better world? (Some focus primarily on the “next world” and see little value in striving for better government, social justice, improved levels of living …)
1.3. Better person? (self-improvement manuals would be attractive to this type of emphasis)
1.4. Salvation? (some moderns have lost focus on sin and guilt and therefore do not regard this very much…)
1.5. Sanctification? (holiness is emphasized, often, in Scripture and in years gone by…)
1.6. Stewardship? (this involves everything from time to finances to natural resources to relationships?!)
1.7. Sanity/serenity? (the “fruit of the Spirit” does emphasize “love, joy, peace …”)
1.8. Simplicity? (it is NOT about building bigger barns…)
1.9. Spiritual? (sagacious, thoughtful, wise, introspective, mystical …)
1.10.Service? (Salvation Army-like, soup kitchen, Orphanages, …)
1.11.Sensitive? (thinking about others, about life, about feelings, about music and poetry …)
1.12.Sacrificial? (… lay down ones life …)
1.13.Suffering?! (share in suffering; count it all joy)
2. Define “better”? what does better look like?!
2.1. Eco-minded
2.2. Kinder, gentler
2.3. Good citizen (define this!)
2.4. Doctrinal soundness
2.5. Purposeful/a “cause”
2.6. Care-free/contented
2.7. Animal-lover
2.8. Healthier
2.9. Happier
2.10.Discerning/discriminating
2.11.Accepting/open-minded
2.12.Immediate vs. long-term
3. Examples – bad (contemporary and historical)
3.1. World religions (human sacrifice, jihad, …)
3.2. Within Xty (Crusades, Inquisition…)
3.3. Unreligious (Hitler, Stalin, … )
4. Examples – good (contemporary and historical)
4.1. World religions
4.2. Within Xty
4.3. Unreligious
5. Measurement methods?
5.1. Ask friends.
5.2. Ask enemies!
5.3. Look at checkbook
5.4. Look at your day-timer/calendar
5.5. Consider about what one giggles?! (my wife love to hear me giggle, and vice-versa; but, we do not giggle at the same things?!)
5.6. -- At what one sighs/tears/stirs?
5.7. -- At what one angers?
5.8. Examine goals/dreams
5.9. Look at children/family
5.10.Compare to Jesus
5.11.Honest and humble self-evaluation
6. “Gray” continuum
6.1. “enough good in worst, enough bad in best, that none should judge any…”
6.2. Strengths AND weakness – each of us.
6.3. Perfect – best – good – average – poor – worst – evil. (or,)
6.4. Perfect – professional – adequate – average – substandard – unacceptable – unqualified
7. Growth means? How/through what do I grow?
7.1. People
7.2. Scripture
7.3. Prayer
7.4. Fasting
7.5. Spirit of God
7.6. “Spiritual Disciplines”
8. Growth killers?!

 

[Jipsah]

Does knowing that 2+2=4 make me a better person?

 

[GarySneakers]

No

 

[Athanasias]

My religion does make me a better person if I follow my religion devoutly because of who it leads me to.

 

[Amber Bird]

I'd think a great question would be. Do I make my religion look better through my personal example as a member of it?

Yes.

 

[Going Merry]

My character changed over night as a result of my faith. What I lacked was granted to a unworthy person that I am. Knowing the truth frees one from sin forever. My liberty is endless in God and I likewise show this to others in love.

Yes. My religion has made me a better person.

 

[98cwitr]

God makes people better...not religion.

 

[God's Word]

God makes people better...not religion.

Obeying God, via the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, makes people better...not religion.

 

[KTskater]

From a worldly perspective, I suppose I'm a better person. My heart has changed, what I value is different, and I'm driven to love everyone. However, I still have horrible thoughts, still get angry, still find myself fighting off lust...these are things common to man. I am still a sinner, yet, I've been justified by Jesus. I will never be a good person. "No one is righteous, not even one." (Romans 3:10). Jesus is the only one who is good, and drawing near to Him should be our only concern (as Christians). Being a "good" person simply isn't part of Christian theology. Our actions are born out of gratefulness, a change of heart, and full reliance on God's grace.

 

[freezerman2000]

God is perfect..Religion is not. No two religions (denominations) can agree with each other, which is why there are so many.
God made me a better person, Organised Religion can take a hike.

 

[Athanasias]

God makes people better...not religion.

God makes people better by teaching them how to get close to Him through His divine religion.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Other than acknowledging that I'm a christian and/or believer in Jesus Christ I don't really consider myself as being in a religion but I wont fuss over it if someone insists that I'm in a religion. I do consider myself more in a relationship with my God then in a religion.

I'm a believer in Jesus Christ and that I know has made me a better person. I will say though, religion was very instrumental for me getting to know Jesus and for that I'm very thankful to it.

Actually, the word "religion" connotes several different meanings and emotions in people so this question can be answered in many different ways, none of which should be considered as wrong answers.

 

[nephilimiyr]

God makes people better by teaching them how to get close to Him through His divine religion.

I agree that religion can make a person better, just read a book about Malcom X and you can see religion at work. Malcom X was a real good person but only after he found his religion.

When you say "devine religion" I can agree with you to a point but in my belief, the major way and most effective way God teaches people to get close to him is through his Holy Spirit, and also through the gifts of the Spirit. Sacraments of the church to me is religion, gifts of the Spirit is relationship. If that is what you mean by his "divine religion" then I'm in agreement with you.

 

[Athanasias]

I agree that religion can make a person better, just read a book about Malcom X and you can see religion at work, Malcom X was a real good person and he definately had religion.

When you say "devine religion" I can agree with you to a point but in my belief, the major way and most effective way God teaches people to get close to him is with the Holy Spirit, and mostly through the gifts of the Spirit. If that is what you mean by his "divine religion" then I'm in total agreement with you.

Oh I agree with you that the Holy Spirit is the way to get close to God(infused with his righteousness in fact). But I am looking at secondary causes and primary causes. By Divine religion I mean that Christ(God) came to this world and taught and died for truth. These truths and practices which he taught(Doctrine) form the religion he founded. They are important, in fact its dead serious becasue he died for this truth he taught. God is the primary cause or way to get close to him however he uses secondary causes all the time to get us to get close to him. That is what religion is. The Holy Spirit helps me get closer to God but first to get to the Holy Spirit I have to hear his teaching(through learning the religion he founded) and follow what he set up and taught to know how to get the Holy Spirit(Baptism). Does that help?

 

[nephilimiyr]

These truths and practices which he taught(Doctrine) form the religion he founded.

Here is where you and I are seeing things in different ways. I don't see anywhere where Jesus founded a religion. Jesus, in my view, didn't come down to earth to form a new religion. In fact in most if not all ways I see him destorying religion, at least in a personal, individual sense.

Jesus founded a Church of believers, implying an orginization, and He did give at least one major command, to love one another as He loved us, but I don't believe He wanted a religious body with all it's traditions, commands, rules, and obligations. Jesus desparitely wanted relationship with each and every member of the human race. Relationship, not religion, divine or otherwise.

Well, that's what I believe anyway.

 

[SolomonVII]

Jackie DeShannon & Glen Campbell, Less of Me - YouTube'Better' is a value judgment.
Christianity does give me the message to think a little more of others and a little less of me.

Other voices in the background of my mind talk about self-fulfillment, money makes the world go round, and looking out for number one.

Probably the world is a little better place when I listen to that Christian voice more than those other voices working themselves out on my impulses and my behavior. Probably in the end, I am a better person for it too, not to just keep on "doin' my thang."

But that is a value judgment. The values that we go by don't arise out of a vacuum. Even in our post-Christian society, the main values still spring from Judeo-Christianity for the most part.

 

[Athanasias]

Here is where you and I are seeing things in different ways. I don't see anywhere where Jesus founded a religion. Jesus, in my view, didn't come down to earth to form a new religion. In fact in most if not all ways I see him destorying religion, at least in a personal, individual sense.

Jesus founded a Church of believers, implying an orginization, and He did give at least one major command, to love one another as He loved us, but I don't believe He wanted a religious body with all it's traditions, commands, rules, and obligations. Jesus desparitely wanted relationship with each and every member of the human race. Relationship, not religion, divine or otherwise.

Well, that's what I believe anyway.

Sure I understand what you saying. And I understand this is probably a difference between us. That ok my friend. In my opinion it all depends on how you define religion. Often times terms are what cause more confusion between Christians of different Church traditions. Some define religion as a set of beliefs and practices given by God. If religion is defined this way it is seen as being a secondary cause to a relationship with God. Essentially what it is saying is the faith given and doctrine taught by Jesus and the apostles is this religion. At least that is my take.

As a Catholic I don't see religion being bad. The abuse of religion is bad though. But actually I find it good if its true religion(Faith, practices and doctrine given by God through revelation meant to teach us and lead us to Him). In this way we as Catholics would say the Jewish religion was founded by God and was good in itself. The abuse of the religion of God by certain members of the Jewish community was not good and has caused what Isaiah, Jesus, and St. Paul condemned namely the teachings or traditions of mere men which are not from God. But the religion itself(containing actual traditions and teaching from God) apart from those man made traditions is good. We would also say the Catholic religion is a fullfillment of the Jewish religion and even better.(Because it then reveals the fullness of truth given by Christ the Priest Prophet and King). That is at least where I stand as a Catholic theologian.

God bless you brother!

In Christ the new covenant Davidic King through Mary the new covenant Davidic Queen Mother,
Athanasias

 

[Emmy]

Dear Jerry C. God wants us to become loving and caring. Loving God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. Also: Loving our neighbour as ourselves. God is Love, and God wants loving children/sons and daughters. Is there anything better than Love? And is`nt Love easier to grasp and easier to remember? Let us learn how to love, God with our hearts, souls and minds, and our neighbour as ourselves. Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with His Love, also.
" Ask and ye will receive," ( Matthew 7, verse 7-10) and then thank God, and share all Love and Joy with all around us. People will treat us the same, and life will be enjoyable. Love is very catching: Loving freely and no conditions tagged on. Showing this imperfect world, whose children we are, and whom we represent. Love is our weapon, Love overcomes all enmity and opposition, and Love will always turn anger into friendliness and loving fellowships.
Unless we try and start loving and caring, to love will remain wishful thinking.
Let God see how much we love God, and follow His Commandments to love, and then enjoy His Blessings. What can we lose? We can only enjoy " Life Abundantly," as Jesus promised us. I say this with love, Jerry. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Sure I understand what you saying. And I understand this is probably a difference between us. That ok my friend. In my opinion it all depends on how you define religion. Often times terms are what cause more confusion between Christians of different Church traditions. Some define religion as a set of beliefs and practices given by God. If religion is defined this way it is seen as being a secondary cause to a relationship with God. Essentially what it is saying is the faith given and doctrine taught by Jesus and the apostles is this religion. At least that is my take.

As a Catholic I don't see religion being bad. The abuse of religion is bad though. But actually I find it good if its true religion(Faith, practices and doctrine given by God through revelation meant to teach us and lead us to Him). In this way we as Catholics would say the Jewish religion was founded by God and was good in itself. The abuse of the religion of God by certain members of the Jewish community was not good and has caused what Isaiah, Jesus, and St. Paul condemned namely the teachings or traditions of mere men which are not from God. But the religion itself(containing actual traditions and teaching from God) apart from those man made traditions is good. We would also say the Catholic religion is a fullfillment of the Jewish religion and even better.(Because it then reveals the fullness of truth given by Christ the Priest Prophet and King). That is at least where I stand as a Catholic theologian.

God bless you brother!

In Christ the new covenant Davidic King through Mary the new covenant Davidic Queen Mother,
Athanasias

Ah, there you go, now we have understanding and can mostly agree with each other. I don't always see religion as being something bad, if fact, religion in the way James defined it can be very good. If you want to use the word loosely you can use it to discribe your set of beliefs and practices, that's fine with me.

I do however see religion sometimes being abused in several different ways. Where religion turns into a bad word for me is when people love their religious practices as much or more than their relationship with God, or even God himself. I think when people trust more in their religion than they do God then I think that is the wrong way to live. There's a religious mindset in some of us that I think we need to fight off, I myself have had to do that and sometimes still do. If you use religious practices as a means to get God to approve of you more or to get him to love you more than that to me is an abuse of religion. I believe that as believers in Christ there isn't anything we can do above and beyond simply trusting in him and showing faith in him that will impress God more. I believe God is a supreme opptimist in all of us. He doesn't need to see us doing things to impress him. All He wants is submission to his Holy Spirit so that He can work through us, advance the kingdom not only in us but through us. Christ in us is the hope of glory!

I was born and raised in the RCC and saw evidence of it there and I've seen evidence of this in several Protestant churches as well. I'm not speaking about any one church or denomination because the evidence of this kind of abuse can be found anywhere.

 

[Athanasias]

Ah, there you go, now we have understanding and can mostly agree with each other. I don't always see religion as being something bad, if fact, religion in the way James defined it can be very good. If you want to use the word loosely you can use it to discribe your set of beliefs and practices, that's fine with me.

I do however see religion sometimes being abused in several different ways. Where religion turns into a bad word for me is when people love their religious practices as much or more than their relationship with God, or even God himself. I think when people trust more in their religion than they do God then I think that is the wrong way to live. There's a religious mindset in some of us that I think we need to fight off, I myself have had to do that and sometimes still do. If you use religious practices as a means to get God to approve of you more or to get him to love you more than that to me is an abuse of religion. I believe that as believers in Christ there isn't anything we can do above and beyond simply trusting in him and showing faith in him that will impress God more. I believe God is a supreme opptimist in all of us. He doesn't need to see us doing things to impress him. All He wants is submission to his Holy Spirit so that He can work through us, advance the kingdom not only in us but through us. Christ in us is the hope of glory!

I was born and raised in the RCC and saw evidence of it there and I've seen evidence of this in several Protestant churches as well. I'm not speaking about any one church or denomination because the evidence of this kind of abuse can be found anywhere.

Ahh yes your right! I think I can agree with you here. I think this boils down to a couple of issues. 1). Alot of Christians do not really know or understand thier own faith and 2) therefore have not formed a personal relationship with God. Of course some don't really care either. Many of these "Christians by name only" or as I call them "cultural Catholics" just go through the practices without any real penetration of thought or holiness and growth the sacraments are meant to give one. Many do not even understand or can explain even the basics of thier Catholic faith. So yes this abuse can happen. The way I explain it is the religion itself is holy and good as it comes from God but the people are not always and need to be taught properly.

This is in my opinion a problem of sin. Many Christians do not try to follow thier own faith. They like cheap grace and think that as long as they go to church or as long as they are not murderes they will not go to hell. They feel they do not need a a real relationship with God since they are very much about moral autonomy. But just because this happens does not mean true religion was wrong or bad. If one had to judge wich was the true religion based on peoples disobedience and acting against thier own faith then no one would have known the true religion in the OT. But we did. Yahweh gave it to the Isrealites.

So I think we actually can agree here. You have many good points!

God bless you!

In Jesus through Mary,
Athanasias