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Is the existence of Christianity better for this world

Hans Blaster

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Whatever, it was relevant to what BCP said to refute him quickly instead of going into the details. The Woke and all that is relevant because it conflicts with Christain values which are claimed to underpin a better society.

If someone on the Left wants to denonce Christainity as being good for society and use ideas like project 21 then Christains should have the right to question the validity of the Lefts claim.
Even if I wanted to denounce your religion, the rules forbid it.
Oh don't be like that. The US and Australia has always had a good relationship.
I am not the US. And I have little current knowledge of Australian news or politics. If it weren't for the label under your avatar, I'd assume you were an American with bad spelling because ALL of your political references are to the US, though badly skewed.
I get my knowledge for the US, from the same people the US uses. CBS is a Left leaning media outlet. Everyone knows how bias the Left media was.

Of the 20 major news outlets studied 18 were left of center include CBS evening news.
CBS is corporate media. The audience of the CBS network actually skews older than the other networks (NBC, ABC).

The more you capitalize "Left" the more I think you don't know what you are talking about.
But it doesn't matter because my only point is to highlight that there is a definite divide on some important issues between each side on what makes a better society. So there's a clear difference on specific issues relation to abortion, marriage, religious and speech freedoms ect which can be measured as to which beliefs stack up and will actually make society better.

Maybe sometimes its good to get an outside perspective because maybe the 'over reacting' is more than oh their just over reacting never mind them they are like that all the time.

I think it went beyond over reacting and into dangerous territory. You can't just put that down to over reacting. It seems a cop out.

Anyway I don't care for my point is that the Left stand for a different and conflicting ideology to Christains. So we need to look at each sides ideology and see if would make society better.
These broad categories "the Left" and "Christians" in conflict with ideology, even though both groups (including all those you would put in each) are broad ideologically (in part because your definition is way to broad) and with significant overlap.

I would rather talk of politics with nuance, but you present a politics with categories defined as if so by the FNC prime time lineup.
Yes I agree.
 
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stevevw

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Even if I wanted to denounce your religion, the rules forbid it.
Hum So how can we possibly determine if Christainity is better for society and this world. I guess we could do it by looking at the data like I mentioned earlier. Like we are looking at whether a certain treatment or therapy works and makes things better.

So if we take say abortion or marriage which seems a very clear and different belief position between Christains and progressive ideology we could look at the data as to what each position may cause for society. That way its detatched from personal beliefs but is looked upon from a statistical and behavioural perspective.
I am not the US. And I have little current knowledge of Australian news or politics. If it weren't for the label under your avatar, I'd assume you were an American with bad spelling because ALL of your political references are to the US, though badly skewed.
I can apply most of what is happening in the US to Australia. In fact it can be applied to England and other Western nations like Canada. Though some aspects will be different like political systems the general issues like the divide on the Left anf Right ie Left (socialism and progressive) verses Right Conservative and Christain) is happening across western nations based on similar issues like immigration, trans, marriage and family issues.
CBS is corporate media. The audience of the CBS network actually skews older than the other networks (NBC, ABC).
Ok so here's one from the ABC which states the a disasterous loss to Trump

Democrats sift through 'unmitigated disaster' after Trump victory: ANALYSIS
The more you capitalize "Left" the more I think you don't know what you are talking about.
lol I capitalize the Left to destinguish it from the general use of the word 'left'. Not because I don't understand the politics involved. That is the political divide between the Left and the Right of politics which is blatantly obvious at the moment with identity politics.
These broad categories "the Left" and "Christians" in conflict with ideology, even though both groups (including all those you would put in each) are broad ideologically (in part because your definition is way to broad) and with significant overlap.
Thats why I was narrowing it down to specific policies on each side. There are several policy positions the Republicans take and have for most of these history that align with Christain values.

The Democrates don't take these positions as they are a progressive party and have to accommodate all views including those that are opposed to Christainity. Like abortion or marriage and SSM. These are specific conflicting policies and we can measure whether these policies make society and the world better or not.
I would rather talk of politics with nuance, but you present a politics with categories defined as if so by the FNC prime time lineup.
Not sure what the FNC is.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Hum So how can we possibly determine if Christainity is better for society and this world. I guess we could do it by looking at the data like I mentioned earlier. Like we are looking at whether a certain treatment or therapy works and makes things better.
That's why I stuck to the science topic.
So if we take say abortion or marriage which seems a very clear and different belief position between Christains and progressive ideology we could look at the data as to what each position may cause for society. That way its detatched from personal beliefs but is looked upon from a statistical and behavioural perspective.
I'll cover this later.
I can apply most of what is happening in the US to Australia. In fact it can be applied to England and other Western nations like Canada. Though some aspects will be different like political systems the general issues like the divide on the Left anf Right ie Left (socialism and progressive) verses Right Conservative and Christain) is happening across western nations based on similar issues like immigration, trans, marriage and family issues.
That's the problem. It can't be. The parties and coalitions are all different. For example, you incorrectly have equated the "Left" with the Democratic Party (and here with socialism and porgressivism), when the Democrats *are not* a socialist party and the left-most faction of the Democratic Party is the "progressive wing". I don't even know the name of your parties and I don't pretend to.
Ok so here's one from the ABC which states the a disasterous loss to Trump

Democrats sift through 'unmitigated disaster' after Trump victory: ANALYSIS
ABC is *also* corporate middle-of-the-road media. You might be familiar with their parent company: The Walt Disney Company.
lol I capitalize the Left to destinguish it from the general use of the word 'left'. Not because I don't understand the politics involved. That is the political divide between the Left and the Right of politics which is blatantly obvious at the moment with identity politics.
There is no need to do either. The context is clear. They are not proper nouns.
Thats why I was narrowing it down to specific policies on each side. There are several policy positions the Republicans take and have for most of these history that align with Christain values.

The Democrates don't take these positions as they are a progressive party and have to accommodate all views including those that are opposed to Christainity. Like abortion or marriage and SSM. These are specific conflicting policies and we can measure whether these policies make society and the world better or not.
Part of my problem with your "political commentary" is that you put of the false separation of "Christians" on one side and "Democrats" on the other. Even your examples don't follow the way you think they do. The basic positions that Democrats take on SSM and abortion are *majority* positions held by large fractions of Christians in the US. One stalwart faction of the conservative movement either didn't care about abortion or held positions similar to the Democratic party as recently as 40 years ago. (Abortion opposition was a very Catholic thing then and conservative activists "converted" evangelicals to it because opposition to desegregation was considered unsavory and they needed a new motivator.

Another aspect is that of Democratic Party politicians *more* of them are self declared Christians than they average American answering a phone survey. The general American public is far more non-religous than politicians of either party. There are plenty of left-leaning or Democratic Christian member of this site. The two things (Christian and Democrat) are not opposites.
Not sure what the FNC is.
Fox "News" Channel.
 
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stevevw

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That's why I stuck to the science topic.
But thats different to what you were saying with the church stopping scientific progress to using science to determine whether something is beneficial socially. Science cannot tell you something is morally good for society.
I'll cover this later.

That's the problem. It can't be. The parties and coalitions are all different. For example, you incorrectly have equated the "Left" with the Democratic Party (and here with socialism and porgressivism), when the Democrats *are not* a socialist party and the left-most faction of the Democratic Party is the "progressive wing". I don't even know the name of your parties and I don't pretend to.
Australian and British politics are similar to the US in that we also have Labor which is like the Dems and Conservatives which are like the republicans in their basic political philosophies. Labor and the Dems are more progressive and for the working class and Conservatives were more for business and privatisation.

But the parties were more towards the center in the past when the majority believed in God. There were some common beliefs. But in the last 60 odd years a divide and polarisation has happened. The Dems and Labor have allowed the radical fringes to take over. We seen this with Harris.

There are some nuances between nations but generally speaking each side has become more radical and polarised in their positions. This is a natural consequence of how politics has become more about identity and ideology than policy.

The Left generally have become socialist even hard socialist which has been a common policy for the Left throughout the world. Many nations in Europe who promoted generous immigration policies and lax laws came with Left wing governments.
ABC is *also* corporate middle-of-the-road media. You might be familiar with their parent company: The Walt Disney Company.
ABC is not middle of the road and neither is their parent company Disney but one of the most radical Left media outlets. I mean why do you think they are going broke. What do they say 'Go Woke and Go Broke' lol.

Disney Quietly Acknowledges Its Left-Wing Agenda Is Costing Shareholders

Disney has harmed investors with ‘woke’ agenda
There is no need to do either. The context is clear. They are not proper nouns.
Ok well as you can see above in the heading that says Left-Wing that this is a common use of language today to describe the situation and most people know immediately what is mean by it.
Part of my problem with your "political commentary" is that you put of the false separation of "Christians" on one side and "Democrats" on the other. Even your examples don't follow the way you think they do. The basic positions that Democrats take on SSM and abortion are *majority* positions held by large fractions of Christians in the US.
I disagree. Though some churches have become more Woke most Christains disagree with supporting abortion and SSM. They may say that civil society has the right to allow people their own freedom of choice. Or that abortion is acceptable if theres threat to the life of the mother or baby. But they don't support abortion ot SSM morally.

They can't support abortion as the bible clearly states that God knows us in the womb from conception. We are a unique humans with a soul from conception. The same with SSM. They may say people have a right to get married under civil laws but they don't support SSM under God. If they do they are not Christains but false prophets which the bible also tells us about.

In fact its almost become trendy to water down Christ as some cool dude who hangs with prostitutes, gays and sinners and thus somehow is rationalised as He tolerates all these behaviours. Its just a modern watering down of the Gods word.
One stalwart faction of the conservative movement either didn't care about abortion or held positions similar to the Democratic party as recently as 40 years ago.
Yeah thats about when politics began to become all about identity and progressive ideology was filtering into society from academic critical theories. Everything was questioned and rationalised and Gods word and truth was being undermined.

In fact that is just after Roe V Wade so of course some Christains would jump of the progressive bandwagon to make themselves all relevant. Which only goes to show how socialisation can influence peoples beliefs. But it was not biblical.
(Abortion opposition was a very Catholic thing then and conservative activists "converted" evangelicals to it because opposition to desegregation was considered unsavory and they needed a new motivator.
I would have thought abortion is just a biblical and Christain thing. There's no Catholic or Protestant or Mormon interpretation. It is what it is. Abortion is wrong full stop unless in cases where a life is threatened. The idea of an abortion being a form of contraception has never been supported by Christains.
Another aspect is that of Democratic Party politicians *more* of them are self declared Christians than they average American answering a phone survey. The general American public is far more non-religous than politicians of either party. There are plenty of left-leaning or Democratic Christian member of this site. The two things (Christian and Democrat) are not opposites.
Actually its harder for a Democrate to be a Christain in todays secular progressive society as the basic position is that you have to treat all beliefs and moral determinations as equal without destinction to be democratic. You have to allow anti God ideology as well as Christainity. Therefore your not standing on your own Christainity but rather undermining it.

Being progressive they have to be relevant to secular progressive ideology which defies Gods laws and Christainity. What we end up seeing is not only do they have to allow all alternative ideologies they cannot remain neutral because in reality the radical progressive sections demand loyalty as well. They end up giving in to the radical elements.

Christianity is incompatible with the Democratic Party

Today’s Democratic Party is increasingly secular, which complicates and limits traditional forms of faith outreach. “This emerging group of secular Democrats coexists a little uneasily with the more religious wing of the party,”
Fox "News" Channel.
OK. well all I am doing is reflecting what the voters were actually saying. In fact its what some Dem and Left media are now saying about themselves. So there must be some truth in their self reflections.
 
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Hans Blaster

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But thats different to what you were saying with the church stopping scientific progress to using science to determine whether something is beneficial socially. Science cannot tell you something is morally good for society.
We could talk about that, but you want to discuss your poor understanding of American politics...
Australian and British politics are similar to the US in that we also have Labor which is like the Dems and Conservatives which are like the republicans in their basic political philosophies. Labor and the Dems are more progressive and for the working class and Conservatives were more for business and privatisation.
And did those themes align with the rhetoric of the recent US election you claim the "Left" was "wiped out" in? No not really. No mention of privitazation for starters. (At least not until *after* the election. There isn't a lot that could be privitzed in the US, and the notion of privatizing it is rather unpopular.)
But the parties were more towards the center in the past when the majority believed in God. There were some common beliefs. But in the last 60 odd years a divide and polarisation has happened. The Dems and Labor have allowed the radical fringes to take over. We seen this with Harris.

There are some nuances between nations but generally speaking each side has become more radical and polarised in their positions. This is a natural consequence of how politics has become more about identity and ideology than policy.
For example, the GOP campaign was largely about Chrsitian identity, "americanism", and related grievances.
The Left generally have become socialist even hard socialist which has been a common policy for the Left throughout the world. Many nations in Europe who promoted generous immigration policies and lax laws came with Left wing governments.
Recall that this whole "Left" thing was because you said the "Left" was "wiped out" in the recent US election, but the problem with this claim is that the Democratic party (not "the LEft") is not socialist (or even hard socialist).
ABC is not middle of the road and neither is their parent company Disney but one of the most radical Left media outlets. I mean why do you think they are going broke. What do they say 'Go Woke and Go Broke' lol.

Disney Quietly Acknowledges Its Left-Wing Agenda Is Costing Shareholders

Disney has harmed investors with ‘woke’ agenda
And as it always does you defense comes down to things posted in RW opinion media.
Ok well as you can see above in the heading that says Left-Wing that this is a common use of language today to describe the situation and most people know immediately what is mean by it.
But not the capitalization.
I disagree.
And here we come to the heart of the problem. I list some factual history about political positions various groups hold and you disagree with the facts. It is not relevant if you think some group is wrong to hold a position as that is not why I outlined them. I outlined them to demonstrate that you have a poor understanding of US politics.
Though some churches have become more Woke most Christains disagree with supporting abortion and SSM. They may say that civil society has the right to allow people their own freedom of choice. Or that abortion is acceptable if theres threat to the life of the mother or baby. But they don't support abortion ot SSM morally.

They can't support abortion as the bible clearly states that God knows us in the womb from conception. We are a unique humans with a soul from conception. The same with SSM. They may say people have a right to get married under civil laws but they don't support SSM under God. If they do they are not Christains but false prophets which the bible also tells us about.

In fact its almost become trendy to water down Christ as some cool dude who hangs with prostitutes, gays and sinners and thus somehow is rationalised as He tolerates all these behaviours. Its just a modern watering down of the Gods word.

Yeah thats about when politics began to become all about identity and progressive ideology was filtering into society from academic critical theories. Everything was questioned and rationalised and Gods word and truth was being undermined.

In fact that is just after Roe V Wade so of course some Christains would jump of the progressive bandwagon to make themselves all relevant. Which only goes to show how socialisation can influence peoples beliefs. But it was not biblical.

I would have thought abortion is just a biblical and Christain thing. There's no Catholic or Protestant or Mormon interpretation. It is what it is. Abortion is wrong full stop unless in cases where a life is threatened. The idea of an abortion being a form of contraception has never been supported by Christains.

Actually its harder for a Democrate to be a Christain in todays secular progressive society as the basic position is that you have to treat all beliefs and moral determinations as equal without destinction to be democratic. You have to allow anti God ideology as well as Christainity. Therefore your not standing on your own Christainity but rather undermining it.

Being progressive they have to be relevant to secular progressive ideology which defies Gods laws and Christainity. What we end up seeing is not only do they have to allow all alternative ideologies they cannot remain neutral because in reality the radical progressive sections demand loyalty as well. They end up giving in to the radical elements.

Christianity is incompatible with the Democratic Party

Today’s Democratic Party is increasingly secular, which complicates and limits traditional forms of faith outreach. “This emerging group of secular Democrats coexists a little uneasily with the more religious wing of the party,”

OK. well all I am doing is reflecting what the voters were actually saying. In fact its what some Dem and Left media are now saying about themselves. So there must be some truth in their self reflections.
Which is why you should probably back off making claims about US politics. Stick to "my opinion is" and the like, instead of trying to analyze it.
 
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